Smoking/Vaping Small Amounts of DMT

[Routemaster]

I am interested in hearing the opinions of users experienced with vaping or smoking low doses (e.g. 10-20mg) of DMT and their opinions of the results of getting comfortable with the lower dose headspace when it comes to smoking/vaping higher doses.

I first tried DMT 4-5 years ago and despite reading lots about it and having experience with other psychedelics, once I had one lungful, I was unable to keep smoking due to the intensity of the comeup. It was like everything in my body/mind was telling me to stop smoking. I have pretty much had quite similar experiences each time with DMT and in most cases can only smoke 2 hits or so.

I almost feel that these repeated low doses have put me off DMT a bit. I would assume that if I managed to get a solid breakthrough dose the intensity of the dose would also carry the experience somewhat, in comparison the lower doses having me caught between normal consciousness and what is happening when using DMT.

I'm curious if the best way to approach overcoming this fear, is to either try and work with low doses of DMT and work the dose up each time. Or continue trying to aim for a breakthrough. Has anyone had similar experiences, or able to comment on experiences with low doses of DMT and whether they feel it was beneficial in comparison to a breakthrough.

I have noticed in the most recent experiences that it has felt like there are voices/elves/fairies inside my cev-world and that they are talking about whether I will 'breakthrough' this time or not. This did not happen in my first few trips, before there were no elves and the experience was a lot more aggressive and shamanic feeling. However I am unsure if that is partially my subconscious also and due to these kinds of questions I have.

 

[Running Bear]

You need 2 lay off the Terence Mckenna, that's what i think.

 

[syberdelic]

Breakthrough Fixation

 

[Routemaster]

I am aware of what you refer to as Breakthrough Fixation, Syberdelic. However, I don't think there is a right/wrong way to use psychedelics, but I do think it is always important to remember the effects of the ego at play and to be careful you aren't chasing the wrong type of experience.

Let me try to rephrase...I find with low doses of DMT it is much more fear-inducing/unsettling. With other psychedelics like psilocybin/LSD I find going right into high doses is nearly a smoother experience in ways because there is less feelings of being caught between sober/tripping headspaces, your right in the deep end as such so the experience carries you. I am really just curious as to whether people find this the same with DMT.

I was unsure of including the final paragraph for responses such as yours Running Bear. I more see Terence Mckenna as theories and interesting discussion, I'm not a massive follower. I was trying to refer to how my trips have transitioned or developed, as the frequency of trips has increased, into different experiences. Does anyone find DMT experiences develop with use? I find other psychedelics do. Or is it just different each time with partial relevance to set/setting?

 

[Cognitive Heart]

You need 2 lay off the Terence Mckenna, that's what i think.

Are you aware that a lot of your posts reflect and position themselves awfully high on the side of favoring solely you? You. Yes, you, need to lay off telling others in short-burst 'posts' what you inhibitory cannot control. With no well-thought out responses. So because earlier threads talked about TM in the context of over-utilization of his work, makes it okay to input that here? :!: Clearly, the OP didn't even give a single mention of TM, anyways. So what's really going on here?

You also seem to think that this thread isn't visible to everyone, oh but it is. And affects everyone, thereof. The OP posted an authentic post and responded well to it, accordingly. This is a university of learning, sharing, and serious en-inquiry.. not a forum to place yourself into power.

 

[Sandgrease]

I dont know if I've ever brokenthrough. Ive gotten very intoxicated and wasnt sure what was going on, and I dont think those trips were therapuetic. Low dose freebase(5-20mgs and low dose 10x Caapi leaf Changa (5-20mgs) were the most helpful for me.

 

[Running Bear]

You need 2 lay off the Terence Mckenna, that's what i think.

Are you aware that a lot of your posts reflect and position themselves awfully high on the side of favoring solely you? You. Yes, you, need to lay off telling others in short-burst 'posts' what you inhibitory cannot control. With no well-thought out responses. So because earlier threads talked about TM in the context of over-utilization of his work, makes it okay to input that here? :!: Clearly, the OP didn't even give a single mention of TM, anyways. So what's really going on here?

You also seem to think that this thread isn't visible to everyone, oh but it is. And affects everyone, thereof. The OP posted an authentic post and responded well to it, accordingly. This is a university of learning, sharing, and serious en-inquiry.. not a forum to place yourself into power.

You're an idiot. Why in the he-l would i want 2 place myself in power on a internet thread lmao. When someone talks about hearing elves and fairies its obviously from TM and i cant help but to think hes full of it. Someone just asked this question a couple days ago and before that its been asked a million times. Im just tired of the made up nonsense. It only bothers you because you turned DMT into a religion. Everyone constantly puts each other down on this thing so how do you expect me to view this as a university of learning? Extracting DMT is literally a 3 step process and you call this a university? who's really the one with an ego problem?

Its either hocus ponus or putting each other down on the nexus. Im done with this thing.

 

[DmnStr8]

.... I don't think there is a right/wrong way to use psychedelics, but I do think it is always important to remember the effects of the ego at play and to be careful you aren't chasing the wrong type of experience.

Let me try to rephrase...I find with low doses of DMT it is much more fear-inducing/unsettling. With other psychedelics like psilocybin/LSD I find going right into high doses is nearly a smoother experience in ways because there is less feelings of being caught between sober/tripping headspaces, your right in the deep end as such so the experience carries you. I am really just curious as to whether people find this the same with DMT.

I tend to agree with this here. I enjoy higher doses more. I find it more comfortable. I like the experience more. This is just me. I don't see any need to compare what I do with another. We all like the experiences that we like. I don't know many people that think like I do about psychedelics. My approach will only ever work for me. I never got on a breakthrough fixation. I always did enough not to worry about that. I like the deep end cause I learned how to swim.

That is not to discount someone who enjoys lower doses. I would think the intention is much different than my own and I certainly would never judge that. I enjoy lighter doses, with the exception of DMT, when with friends having a good time. DMT does not apply to this kind of scenario for me. It's all or nothing with DMT and me. DMT is not a social or recreational affair for me. It's deeply personal and therapeutic in every sense for me.

Terrance McKenna is a cool cat. He deserves to be mentioned and maybe in here he is mentioned more than others may like. The way I see it is that TM is a guide in some ways. Pointing the way. People quote him because they are trying to learn what he was teaching. That's the thing about a guru. You can follow them but you will never understand them. TM has been made into a psychedelic guru in many ways. You can benefit from such a teacher but at some point you are going to have to learn it on your own.

 

[twattlehead]

My first 3 doses were breakthroughs, the 3rd being an unintentionally high dose. That's the main reason the 10 doses since have been low. Finding my feet again at first, then having to do it again after adding syrian rue to the mix. I basically went from being overly blase to overly cautious.

All my lower doses have been useful or enjoyable but I'm looking forward breaking through with syrian rue in the mix. If I was starting over, I'd do it the same way, starting around 30mg. Mainly because my first experience, while shocking, was overall the best and most rewarding dmt experience I've had so far. And the sort of intensity I think I feel comfortable with.

 

[syberdelic]

I think the breakthrough dose is much more enjoyable and rewarding both spiritually and recreationally when one can learn to enjoy the smaller and medium doses. The idea of breaking through in one to three hits seems like people are trying to catapult themselves over a barrier rather than taking the effort to climb it. The way I see it, if you can't climb the slope then you aren't ready for what's on the other side.

I think that the first thing people need to do is let go of so many of the preconceived ideas about DMT such as have been propagated here on the Nexus and by Terence. Ideas such as DMT being associated with birth and death have nothing to stand on but speculation. Even the concepts propagated by Amazonian natives about Ayahuasca being a conduit to communication with the ancestors and/or gods is completely baseless. It is all pure speculation and has no factual basis.

Most of these ideas around DMT and Ayahuasca that make them appear to be more profound are a huge source of the fear and anxiety associated with them. DMT is profound enough all on it's own and doesn't need any sort of mythology behind it to give it more meaning.

I used to be supportive of the idea of the cosmic cannon, but I now say: Take the long road. It is so much more rewarding. The challenge and personal growth involved are tremendous. The cosmic cannon is a short-cut that bypasses much of what DMT is all about.

 

[Jees]

I've always stood behind slow build up methods and I like the de-mystifying of anything practical around entheogens :thumb_up:

...I think that the first thing people need to do is let go of so many of the preconceived ideas about DMT such as have been propagated here on the Nexus and by Terence...

I think of Nexus as a place where wowoo or pseudo science has a very small chance of being pumped around. Nexus does not confirm dmt-birth-death theories, firmly and repeatedly, there's no closing proof is the general stance.

It has been mentioned lately that typical BT'ers are the macho's of the trade, missing out on a lot. Even when that applies to person X or Y, then making it a generalization is uncool. Nobody knows if persons have, or not, the merits of wider knowledge. Better to put labels aside me thinks.

 

[syberdelic]

It's much more than just the birth/death thing. There are many other concepts thrown around on the Nexus like hyperspace and it's entities being real things that exist outside and independent of our consciousness. The spiritual healing aspect also really irritates me. There is probably potential in psychiatric healing or breaking addictions, but you definitely don't need to break through for that and such high doses would probably be less effective.

I feel that often when people take lower doses it is simply to prepare for the breakthrough as if it's all that matters when the reality is that it probably matters less than non breakthrough doses as far as any sort of healing or growing is concerned.

 

[Cognitive Heart]

There is probably potential in psychiatric healing or breaking addictions, but you definitely don't need to break through for that and such high doses would probably be less effective. I feel that often when people take lower doses it is simply to prepare for the breakthrough as if it's all that matters when the reality is that it probably matters less than non breakthrough doses as far as any sort of healing or growing is concerned.

MAPS and other similar movements sure comes to mind, and are very close to introducing(as they already have been) in aiding the healing process/recovery of many maladies such as crushing addiction, PTSD, major depressive disorders, individuals on their deathbed looking for greater(possibly spiritual) meaning, folks with reoccurring debilitating migraines, personality issues, people dealing with an existential crisis, etc. Dosing low and high(including MD) all have their merits, of course. Depending on the person and what they need/want, their history, current events and life experiences.

There really is a lot to look forward to regarding safe choices pertaining to psychedelic/entheogenic utilization, and their impact on what we sense to be consciousness. Time is an incredible healer, though. Time will tell, really. Clarity of thought is essential to these kinds of experiences. Although I don't feel it's wrong to face the unknown every now and again. Of which can benefit a lot of people seeking proper preparation and a fresh perspective.

 

[pitubo]

People quote him because they are trying to learn what he was teaching.

If you are trying to learn something, you study it. Perhaps you attempt to discuss it critically.

If, on the other hand, you are only quoting in adoration for the sake of it, then I call that virtue signaling in the Temple of Terence to show off one's unwavering allegiance to the Cult of WooWoo.

That's the thing about a guru. You can follow them but you will never understand them.

Why follow what you will never understand?

The way I see it, is that people elevate gurus onto pedestals because they are irrationally addicted to woowoo. The guru is positioned to take any blame for their woowoo addiction, should criticism arise. If it does, the first line of defense is usually feigned moral indignation for daring to assault the holy guru. Everything within grasp is mobilized to keep the real weak spot, structural woowooism, out of sight and out of harms way. The guru is a functional object: if one guru is unmasked and toppled, another guru is quickly put on top of the barricades in place of the previous one.

TM has been made into a psychedelic guru in many ways. You can benefit from such a teacher but at some point you are going to have to learn it on your own.

How about benefiting from our own critical observations, without the sanctified translation layer in placed between? Why not start by learning on your own in the first place?

 

[Jees]

It's much more than just the birth/death thing. There are many other concepts thrown around on the Nexus like hyperspace and it's entities being real things that exist outside and independent of our consciousness. The spiritual healing aspect also really irritates me. There is probably potential in psychiatric healing or breaking addictions, but you definitely don't need to break through for that and such high doses would probably be less effective.

I feel that often when people take lower doses it is simply to prepare for the breakthrough as if it's all that matters when the reality is that it probably matters less than non breakthrough doses as far as any sort of healing or growing is concerned.

While in general I agree, especially about de-mystification, I still think you generalize a lot. Critical thoughts:

- thus spiritual healing is BS? I would accept that immediately from the first person who proves that placebo doesn't work, may he/she step forward. In the end a lot is 'software' dependent.
Are all the things that you do in your life, to feel better or complete, things that make you feel whole or in connection with life, are all those things free of any trace of subjectivity or projected stimuli? Is everything that you do or feel or favors so very true to the bone?

- There are many BT reports that have a deep positively transforming outcome (to avoid the word healing). Please don't ask me to search them, they are there. What about those, are they all lies?

- The pursue for BT might not be 'healing' to start with. So that cannot be hold against it. For understanding/healing I would choose pharma or aya, all well below BT levels. But for destroying everything I know of, evaporating all understandings, for this kind of de-fragmentation of the soul, a good dose works wonders. It's for a complete other purpose than sub-BT , I can't see much of a comparison between BT and sub-BT's and this is what you do all the time: to compare them. No wonder that this fails?

 

[DmnStr8]

People quote him because they are trying to learn what he was teaching.

If you are trying to learn something, you study it. Perhaps you attempt to discuss it critically.

If, on the other hand, you are only quoting in adoration for the sake of it, then I call that virtue signaling in the Temple of Terence to show off one's unwavering allegiance to the Cult of WooWoo.

That's the thing about a guru. You can follow them but you will never understand them.

Why follow what you will never understand?

The way I see it, is that people elevate gurus onto pedestals because they are irrationally addicted to woowoo. The guru is positioned to take any blame for their woowoo addiction, should criticism arise. If it does, the first line of defense is usually feigned moral indignation for daring to assault the holy guru. Everything within grasp is mobilized to keep the real weak spot, structural woowooism, out of sight and out of harms way. The guru is a functional object: if one guru is unmasked and toppled, another guru is quickly put on top of the barricades in place of the previous one.

TM has been made into a psychedelic guru in many ways. You can benefit from such a teacher but at some point you are going to have to learn it on your own.

How about benefiting from our own critical observations, without the sanctified translation layer in placed between? Why not start by learning on your own in the first place?

I can't tell if you're agreeing or critiquing here. lol I think we are on the same page??!!

 

[pitubo]

I can't tell if you're agreeing or critiquing here. lol I think we are on the same page??!!

A different page from an entirely different book, perhaps.

 

[DmnStr8]

I can't tell if you're agreeing or critiquing here. lol I think we are on the same page??!!

A different page from an entirely different book, perhaps.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Ok.. Thanks for the laugh!!! That's a very good way to put it! I had that feeling. Good on ya Pitubo!

 

[DMTea Nexian]

Try Ayahuasca instead, if you want a breakthrough that is. The negative side to ingestion is vomiting but that's about it. Changa is more intense but aya is a lot easier to deal with, good luck!