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So was Terence right about things getting weirder and weirder?

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My goodness, McKenna’s writing is intimidating. One paragraph stood out for me, reading it yesterday, which felt relatable:

“… what I'm saying is the universe was not born in a fiery explosion from which it has been blasted outward ever since. The universe is not being pushed from behind. The universe is being pulled from the future toward a goal that is as inevitable as a marble reaching the bottom of a bowl when you release it up near the rim. If you do that, you know the marble will roll down the side of the bowl, down, down, down — until eventually it comes to rest at the lowest energy state, which is the bottom of the bowl. That's precisely my model of human history. I'm suggesting that the universe is pulled toward a complex attractor that exists ahead of us in time, and that our ever-accelerating speed through the phenomenal world of connectivity and novelty is based on the fact that we are now very, very close to the attractor.”

Our propensity for novelty (or complexity?) reaching the bottom of the bowl, at the end of history.

Wouldn’t that be something?

Link to text:
 
CommonConduit said:
My goodness, McKenna’s writing is intimidating. One paragraph stood out for me, reading it yesterday, which felt relatable:

“… what I'm saying is the universe was not born in a fiery explosion from which it has been blasted outward ever since. The universe is not being pushed from behind. The universe is being pulled from the future toward a goal that is as inevitable as a marble reaching the bottom of a bowl when you release it up near the rim. If you do that, you know the marble will roll down the side of the bowl, down, down, down — until eventually it comes to rest at the lowest energy state, which is the bottom of the bowl. That's precisely my model of human history. I'm suggesting that the universe is pulled toward a complex attractor that exists ahead of us in time, and that our ever-accelerating speed through the phenomenal world of connectivity and novelty is based on the fact that we are now very, very close to the attractor.”

Our propensity for novelty (or complexity?) reaching the bottom of the bowl, at the end of history.

Wouldn’t that be something?

Link to text:
Click to expand...
OMG you’re reading terrence, *sniffles*💝
 
CommonConduit said:
My goodness, McKenna’s writing is intimidating. One paragraph stood out for me, reading it yesterday, which felt relatable:

“… what I'm saying is the universe was not born in a fiery explosion from which it has been blasted outward ever since. The universe is not being pushed from behind. The universe is being pulled from the future toward a goal that is as inevitable as a marble reaching the bottom of a bowl when you release it up near the rim. If you do that, you know the marble will roll down the side of the bowl, down, down, down — until eventually it comes to rest at the lowest energy state, which is the bottom of the bowl. That's precisely my model of human history. I'm suggesting that the universe is pulled toward a complex attractor that exists ahead of us in time, and that our ever-accelerating speed through the phenomenal world of connectivity and novelty is based on the fact that we are now very, very close to the attractor.”

Our propensity for novelty (or complexity?) reaching the bottom of the bowl, at the end of history.

Wouldn’t that be something?

Link to text:
Click to expand...
Terence's work has always been fascinating to me. Some of his ideas are very *out there*, but that's very much in tune with who he was. His novelty ideas resonate very strongly with my worldview.

I think the tipping point he refers to - that moment in which humanity walks through a door that closes shut behind us - is the first moment of authentic sentience of an AI. To say that would be setting the fox among the chickens is a vast understatement. There's no going back at that point. How the future develops, and by extension - whether humanity thrives or falls even deeper into dystopian throes - depends on the extent to which we manage said AI. And I think currently we're lagging behind on thinking about this issue in a big way.

Let's do a thought experiment: if there was a way for you and all of the people (and pets) you love to enter cryostasis and be defrosted many centuries in the future (provided humanity has survived that long), would you want to do it? Would you want to be thrown in to the far away technological future of our species? Why (or why not)?
 
Nydex said:
Let's do a thought experiment: if there was a way for you and all of the people (and pets) you love to enter cryostasis and be defrosted many centuries in the future (provided humanity has survived that long), would you want to do it? Would you want to be thrown in to the far away technological future of our species? Why (or why not)?
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I’ll take this thing we have here now. The hangover after cryosleep must be soooo heavy.
 
CommonConduit said:
I’ll take this thing we have here now. The hangover after cryosleep must be soooo heavy.
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I assume you have a deeper reason to not want to go to the future. Perhaps I've read far too much sci-fi, but I would really love to see the future, with all of its ups and downs. I don't have that much holding me onto the current day and age anyways.
 
Nydex said:
I assume you have a deeper reason to not want to go to the future. Perhaps I've read far too much sci-fi, but I would really love to see the future, with all of its ups and downs. I don't have that much holding me onto the current day and age anyways.
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We can go to the future we want right now, in our imagination. And then take steps in the here and now to move towards it?

Are you talking about some more immediate from of gratification?

Or letting humanity rest collectively while other species restore balance to our biosphere?
 
We can go in our imagination, but that form of the future would be, well, imaginary. I want to see the real deal. To see if we managed to get our shit together, for a lack of a better expression, or if we continued in our morally questionable ways and made things even worse. I want to see what would happen to AI, and whether it would be as big of a part of our lives as we imagine it would, or if it would be eradicated, much like in the Dune universe.

I guess I am inherently inclined to give more power to my curiosity than to my survival instinct.
 
Now is all we’ve got.
It’s all we’ve ever got.

Perhaps I’m a bit too sober!

And if we have to think sci-fi: 12 Monkeys.
 
Nydex said:
Sure, but when you defrost 1200 years into the future, your *now* will be *then*, so the value of the present is not lost. It's just moved to a different setting.
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I just want to imply that there is a certain … trap in placing your contentment at another point in time.

In many ways, we have always been time travelling.

It becoming a ‘real’ thing doesn’t change that, I think. Cryo seems like a pretty drastic, materially heavy, and very energy-intensive leap.
 
For the sake of the thought experiment, I'm abstracting away the energy efficiency of such a preservation method. I assume that if humanity were to survive for another 12 centuries, they would've figured sustainable energy production regardless.

It's just curiosity above all. I'm not saying I hate my present time and thing the future would be better. I'm not attaching any emotions to that idea. Just curious to see what humanity would look like 12 centuries in the future, should it survive that long.
 
Nydex said:
Let's do a thought experiment: if there was a way for you and all of the people (and pets) you love to enter cryostasis and be defrosted many centuries in the future (provided humanity has survived that long), would you want to do it? Would you want to be thrown in to the far away technological future of our species? Why (or why not)?
Click to expand...
If in this thought experiment people I love will share my stance on this. Than of course!

One of the things I try to overcame, even with psychedelics are limiting factors of this existence. Which might sound ill suited but hear me out.
"If I could meditate as deeply on a sacred texts, as I do on you. I would clearly be enlightened in this lifetime."
I think point of this existence is experience and learning. This would improve on both of them.

You can spend years mastering meditation and walk on water after... or ferry is just a nickel ;)

What would they say in 1200 years. "Here is a pill, and usb type alpha for your brain, take it, connect yourself and you will have understanding in hour. You don't have to make recipe for cookies with herbs to improve your life. We have them prepacked and tested. We tweaked them for 200 years, they are spot on. Just go and use your consciousness to full potential if you want."

<3
 
Nydex said:
Let's do a thought experiment: if there was a way for you and all of the people (and pets) you love to enter cryostasis and be defrosted many centuries in the future (provided humanity has survived that long), would you want to do it? Would you want to be thrown in to the far away technological future of our species? Why (or why not)?
Click to expand...
I think we must do a different question: would a person from 500 years ago understand anything at all about our society now? I don’t think so. So, at least for me, there’s no sense to go there and interpret what you see with the eyes of a human of 2025.
 
MAGMA17 said:
I think we must do a different question: would a person from 500 years ago understand anything at all about our society now? I don’t think so. So, at least for me, there’s no sense to go there and interpret what you see with the eyes of a human of 2025.
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That is precisely what's drawing me so strongly to this idea. Last time I was in a state of seeing yet not understanding was when I was a newborn, when the linguistic framework had not yet been draped over my perception and I was able to experience reality without attaching little labels and ideas and motes of understanding to everything my eyes saw. I yearn for that sensation of novelty and wonder again.

Note that I'm not saying experiencing such a reality would be necessarily pleasant or have a positive effect on my mental health. But again, the curiosity in me overpowers my self-preservation instincts. Or at least that's how it feels on paper.
 
Nydex said:
The same 'I' who was thrown into this world without being asked about it, and given tools to make any sense of it. Tools that, while allowing a certain level of understanding, prohibit others.
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Thrown into it ..

You didn’t choose to be here?
 
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