What would be a better solvent, 91% Isopropyl Alchohol or 151 proof Everclear for the following Caapi 10x prep? Why? (190 proof Everclear is not available in my state.)
eH
eH
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solvent for Caapi 10x ?
- Thread starter EmptyHand
- Start date
- Merits
- 42
Both everclear and IPA really suck when it comes to harmala extraction. The best and most available solvent for 10x caapi is water. It doesn't evaporate as fast, but is sure pulls far more alks than the alcohols.
That is not to say that IPA or everclear will not work, but multiple soaks are necessary to exhaust the material and make a "true" 10x caapi.
That is not to say that IPA or everclear will not work, but multiple soaks are necessary to exhaust the material and make a "true" 10x caapi.
- Merits
- 114
I was under the impression vodka was a good candidate for this, since its got a nice ratio of water to ethanol you get the best of both worlds and a gallon of rotgut is super cheap!
I had great success using 95% everclear don't know if I got everything there was to get but it's darn effective.
I had great success using 95% everclear don't know if I got everything there was to get but it's darn effective.
- Merits
- 42
Maybe, but what is the advantage of ethanol over water when it comes to caapi? what part in the magic of gets better extracted with ethanol over water?dreamer042 said:
Oh, people definitely have success with both IPA and everclear. It all depends on how you use your solvent. For ethanol and IPA I'd soak and filter caapi at least 5-10 times before I evaporate it onto fresh caapi so as to call it a "true" 10x. With water I'd boil 3-4 times and then evaporate it on fresh caapi to the same effect.dreamer042 said:
- Merits
- 117
Please dont use IPA for harmalas, it sucks big time! Just try it out yourself, with pure alkaloids. Even freebase (which are generally much more soluble in alcohols than salts) are poorly soluble in IPA, so the natural salt form in caapi must be only slightly soluble in it. Sure you might get some psychoactive product, but dont throw that caapi away, extract it with water afterwards and you'll most likely get a significant amount of alkaloids. Ethanol is better than IPA for this, but I would still go for water
endlessness said:
I agree with this, but I want to add that once you have crystalized free base product it is usually a good bit harder to get it back into solution.
However, he is not freebasing them....he is just collecting the salt based alkaloids which should be pretty soluble in either IPA or ethanol IMHO.
What I find interesting is that it does appear that you can smoke harmalas in the natural salt form as caapi leaf is slightly active.
Infundibulum said:
endlessness said:
Okay so are you also referring to making 10x caapi for use in changa? I have always used 99% IPA and allowed for a solid month long soak, shaking the jar every other day minimum. By the end of the month there is a noticeable breakdown in the caapi leaf I am using. I always assumed using this method I was getting the best possible menstrum I could get to use to soak my caaipi leaf in. Are you two saying I could do better by doing this with water, doing several boils, collect em all together, reduce and the use that for my changa?
- Merits
- 117
I would say extract the alkaloids by later basing the acidic soup, like gibran's tek or harmala extraction guide (without the manske part), and add that to the changa in whatever amount you want. Or at the very least try to do this on the supposedly 'spent' caapi after your "10x" soak, and see if you can get more alkaloids out.
Let me rephrase my question a little bit. The goal is to make 10x Caapi leaf for use in changa. Consider the following two techniques. Which works better for making the menstrum?
1. 3 week soak in 91% IPA, shaking daily (Dorge's original technique)
2. Repeat 3 times 10 hour overnight simmers in crockpot on high in water, collect water, reduce.
Thanks!
eH
1. 3 week soak in 91% IPA, shaking daily (Dorge's original technique)
2. Repeat 3 times 10 hour overnight simmers in crockpot on high in water, collect water, reduce.
Thanks!
eH
- Merits
- 114
I was thinking about this and how about using distilled vinegar as the solvent, being acidified water it should pull all the alks and upon evaporation and heating even freebase them, like in the blab jazz technique?
Just something that came to mind. What do you guys think?
Just something that came to mind. What do you guys think?
