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Solvent not separating

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IMonIT2

IMonIT2

Rising Star
Hi,

Swim is having trouble getting the aqueous layer to separate from the NP.

He managed to get his first pull, which yielded 0.7g of very clean spice, but not without experiencing the same problem.

The way he got around it the first time, was by putting the carboy in a heat bath, Then adding more naphtha. The newly added layer of naphtha separated immediately but I don't think the original NP was combined to the new NP. (quantities don't match combination of both)

Yesterday, after a successful first pull, he added to the carboy; the naphtha from his first pull, an extra 200g of KOH and 1 liter of tap water. Then, after waiting in vain for the layers to separate, he used the heat bath again in an attempt to separate the layers. The layers did not separate so he added more NP. Even though the layers were separate they had not been stirred. After stirring them the layers combined back together.
After waiting a few hours for the layers to separate, he decided to add approximately 1 liter of DH2O, thinking maybe the aqueous layer was too thick, and leave it over night.
Had no effect.
Layers are still combined.

What the hell can cause this?

Swim followed Lazy Mans Guide to Extracting Mimosa Hostilis Root Bark by Vortex and used equal quantities BUT he used powdered instead of whole bark.

Items used:
3 gallon glass carboy
500g of powered MHRB (De-fat accomplished using near boiling naphtha).
Approx 1.5-2.0 liter clean naphtha.
255g of KOH mixed in 2 liters of tap water.


Thanks for your time.
 
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You don't want to add more np, you want what is already in there!

I wouldn't add much more potassium hydroxide unless you need to add a ton of water. Add a 1/2L at a time until the sludge becomes thin....tap the jar repeatly and your np should rise to the top (a vibrator works GREAT for this, turn it up and put on the side of the jar and wait). Keep adding water until you no longer have sludge.
 
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There has to be some other factor than the water amounts for the "lye eater" teks, SWIM's been using 15ml H20 per 1g MHRB powdered, and he's have never encountered any sludge problems...he uses VM&P Naptha and that's always separated right on cue. I wonder if there is something in the water that's causing the powdered bark to clump together more readily, or if it's just mixing styles. Either way, I just don't understand how people are having trouble with these overly simplified teks :?:
 
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15,000mL (15L) of water for a kilo of root bark. That might explain the issue. When using less water it all forms a thick grey sludge, hence the suggestion to add more water. Vortex calls for 2-3 liters of water for 500grams of bark. Using 5-7 times that amount would prevent that kind of sludge from forming.

BTW, 1.5-2L of naptha is a really large amount for only 500grams of bark. I use 400-500 (and recycle it for pulls) when pulling from 1/2kilo, maybe 100mL per pull.
 
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acolon_5 said:
15,000mL (15L) of water for a kilo of root bark. That might explain the issue. When using less water it all forms a thick grey sludge, hence the suggestion to add more water. Vortex calls for 2-3 liters of water for 500grams of bark. Using 5-7 times that amount would prevent that kind of sludge from forming.
Click to expand...
After adding more water, swim currently has approx 10 liters of water in his carboy with no sign of separation in sight.

Could too much KOH have this effect?

Swim thinks he's going to scrap this batch and start over with a different TEK.
Any suggestions?

acolon_5 said:
BTW, 1.5-2L of naptha is a really large amount for only 500grams of bark. I use 400-500 (and recycle it for pulls) when pulling from 1/2kilo, maybe 100mL per pull.
Click to expand...
To make it easier to siphon Swim used 1 liter. But since 1 liter barely made a 1/8" layer he had no choice but to add more. He thinks that maybe some of the NP had already started to get stuck in the sludge and that's why 1 liter appeared VERY thin.

The Dream Walker said:
I just don't understand how people are having trouble with these overly simplified teks
Click to expand...
You and me both Dream Walker.:?
 
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Go for an A/B extraction. I've never had problems getting good yeilds and nice clean spice, you'll also need a lot less water/naptha/lye.

A neat little trick I use for pulling the naphtha: Use milk jugs when basifing (A/B) the mimosa wine, this way you can give the jugs a little squeeze and as it reaches the top the diameter of the liquid will decrease, making the depth increase, then just pull with a turkey baster...much easier to get off.

Just my 2c.
 
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acolon_5 said:
A neat little trick I use for pulling the naphtha: Use milk jugs when basifing (A/B) the mimosa wine, this way you can give the jugs a little squeeze and as it reaches the top the diameter of the liquid will decrease, making the depth increase, then just pull with a turkey baster...much easier to get off.
Click to expand...



Agreed. That is, as you know the method I use. I live and die by it.

I will suggest though that if you are using a 1 gallon milk jug, to keep an eye open along the stressed areas where the plastic will be bending because every once in a blue moon tiny rips can occur and then you have a mess.

It is very difficult getting Mimosa wine out of carpet. And everything smells like vinegar. Which is actually kind of nice.
 
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acolon_5 said:
Go for an A/B extraction. I've never had problems getting good yeilds and nice clean spice, you'll also need a lot less water/naptha/lye.

A neat little trick I use for pulling the naphtha: Use milk jugs when basifing (A/B) the mimosa wine, this way you can give the jugs a little squeeze and as it reaches the top the diameter of the liquid will decrease, making the depth increase, then just pull with a turkey baster...much easier to get off.

Just my 2c.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the tip acolon_5.
I prefer a faucet aspirator for siphoning but I like the idea of using conical jugs to increase the layer's depth.
 
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Ixxy said:
acolon_5 said:
A neat little trick I use for pulling the naphtha: Use milk jugs when basifing (A/B) the mimosa wine, this way you can give the jugs a little squeeze and as it reaches the top the diameter of the liquid will decrease, making the depth increase, then just pull with a turkey baster...much easier to get off.
Click to expand...



Agreed. That is, as you know the method I use. I live and die by it.

I will suggest though that if you are using a 1 gallon milk jug, to keep an eye open along the stressed areas where the plastic will be bending because every once in a blue moon tiny rips can occur and then you have a mess.

It is very difficult getting Mimosa wine out of carpet. And everything smells like vinegar. Which is actually kind of nice.
Click to expand...
Big deer park water bottles work they are PETE not HDPE but they work just as good i have one that has a "Lye Eater" base in it been sitting for a month with no problems
 
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a friend of mine used nomans tek for appropriate water/lye/naptha amounts, then if u want some spice right away use the first pull and evap it down right away like the lazy man tek says. U will have spice within 2-3 hours of evap.

Then with pulls 2-3-4 maybe 5 follow nomans tek and freeze/crystallize them, but first put jars under good fan and let them evap down a bit. in 24 hours u will have cleaner spice, then u can recrystallize first pull to clean it up if u want to.

also he heated up naptha prior to putting jars in soloution each time with a crockpot/hotwater bath. Doesn't have to be boiling just hot. The solution had no problems separating for him. This was with 175 g mhrb.

within 3 hours he had crystals growing on sides of jars in freezer aswell. lazy man doesn't use enough water
 
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