Someone pleassse help! Acacia C A/B fails are going to make me cry!

[MagicGing]

Hello swim has recently come across some Acacia c chips. Swim has tried an a/b, using white vinegar, dH2O, calcium hydroxide, and naptha. However swim cannot get access to any ph measuring equipment. Swim attempted to basify a qt jar of acacia acid with 4 heaping ( as in not possible to be more on it) spoonfulls of calcium hydroxide. Swim then put the naptha, and to swims mistake, shook it vigourosly; and he now realizes one must roll it and 0 splashes must occur. Anywas, it appears as if there was to much lime in the solution and apparently lime is outside the emulsion bubbles in swims nps layer, at least thats what he think. Swim has also read that too much lime can somehow turn fats and oils into soaps in the solution??
So swim has put that jar off temporarily and has acid cooked a new batch. Swim had decided to defat before basification, and low and behold, them damned emulsions bubbled up in the nps, even with swims watchful eye to make sure of no splashes. However swim did notice solids of some sort of powdery sludge at the bottom of my solution, possibly from poor filtration. His polar layer was still warm from earlier, however the naptha used for the defat was at room temp. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also swim hasnt heard many success storys with caOH and Acacia C

Thank you, i have learned so much from the nexus and its members and i am very greatful

 

[Thewhitekingtut]

Try q21q21's vinegar and lime tek, sounds like you have the materials just follow the tek to a T

 

[MagicGing]

I have read it but at the top it says it is not for acacia c. I guess im just wondering how to fix these emulsions

 

[MagicGing]

Also idk why the amount of plant material has anything to do with the ph. Swim thought one was suppossed to neutralize the acetic acid and try to get the ph to as close as 14 as possible with lime. Even in q21q21s vinegar lime tek, he states more lime will not hurt. But i have found a limit for the lime, as its solubility in water seems to make it quite a thick solution

Thanks for the reply kingtut

 

[MagicGing]

Would anyone like to share anymore thoughts? Srry for the triple post
Also swim filtered the solution once more and was able to evap the defat layer, and attempted to defat again, this time no emulsions. Swim then proceeded to add just 1 heaping spoonfull of lime after seperation of defat layer. Swim stirred while solution was quite hot and noticed many odd bubbles appear on top. Beside the bubbles is some sort of colorful shiny layer, like gasoline in water. Could either of these be acacia c soap swim created? And would this mean the solution is sufficiently freebased? He thought he removed the fats with the defat.And could this possibly affect emulsions when he adds the nps???

Thanks in advance :thumb_up:

 

[Jin]

Beside the bubbles is some sort of colorful shiny layer, like gasoline in water.

that the good part now add some naptha and extract

 

[MagicGing]

Forreal?? I feel like the bubbles would ruin the nps layer. Also i thought for somereason the freebased alks would sink? Should swim try and skim the soapy bubbles off while leaving the colorful oily stuff?

 

[MagicGing]

Swim sayd he dont think hes going to add the nps until the bubbles (possibly soap) are gone and noticed that he could fork out the bubbles and if possibly that would hurt the yeild, i guess depending on where the alks are in the solution. He also noticed that most of the bubbles popped or whatev upon the solution cooling, however there are still a few little bubbles on the edge; also there seems to be some amberish solid buildup a few cm above the solution, possibly from the bubbles earlier??

Thanks for the post jin

Edit: now happy to type that no bubbles are in sight! Doing nps pull tomorrow

 

[Jin]

Also i thought for somereason the freebased alks would sink? Should swim try and skim the soapy bubbles off while leaving the colorful oily stuff?

a very small fraction of freebased alkaloids sink and most of it floats , also its good that you're letting the bubbles settle

don't worry it will all work out good ,

 

[MagicGing]

Well swim said its looking good! He recrydtallized and noticed te vinegar was extremely cloudy, and noticed there was white sediments at the bottom, possibly salts from supersaturated vinegar!! He then freebased with lime and noticed floating whiteness, while lime always sinks! Soooo he thinks its alks!!!!!

Thanks for the encouragement and help jin

Edit: swims not sure how well the recrystallization worked. Maybe the solution isnt based enough with lime, or the naphtha was t hot enough? Idk but he said that the first recrystallized np pull looked the same as regular naphtha and so far hasnt seen any cloudiness or anything from the freeze precip of it. However there is a layer on top of the recrystallized free based solution that looks awfully odd like alks maybe, as lime generally sinks if it doesnt dissolve??

 

[smokerx]

This one is tested to work very well so try it.

 

[MagicGing]

I have previously read it, however swim dont have access to lye. In theory i think im doing the same thing, except with CaOH and recrystallization

Edit: maybe the ph isnt high enough? Or my nps was not hot enough.
Thansk smokerx for the support

 

[MagicGing]

So i looked at my plant solution, and noticed shiny fractals on top. Swim added naphtha with a hot bath, and the solvent did not cloud. So he added more lime, thinking it was not sufficiently freebased, and boom, a fat ass emulsion. Neither of my re x look cloudy in the freeze, yet the polar re x layer was cloudy...... Ive never been so frustrated

 

[smokerx]

Lye should be available as drain unblocker in many shops. Just make sure it contains 100% NaOH

 

[MagicGing]

Thanks I will look into that smokerx. But does anyone have any experience with CaOH that possibly knows what im doing wrong?

 

[Jin]

He recrydtallized and noticed te vinegar was extremely cloudy, and noticed there was white sediments at the bottom, possibly salts from supersaturated vinegar!!

are you talking about recrystalization or salting , because vinegar is used for salting not recrystalization

He then freebased with lime and noticed floating whiteness, while lime always sinks! Soooo he thinks its alks!!!!!

most probably

Edit: swims not sure how well the recrystallization worked. Maybe the solution isnt based enough with lime, or the naphtha was t hot enough? Idk but he said that the first recrystallized np pull looked the same as regular naphtha and so far hasnt seen any cloudiness or anything from the freeze precip of it.

are you talking about non polar solvent pulls here or recrystallization ,

recrystalization is the process which you do after having completed your extraction , you take your freebase spice , dissolve it in minimal naptha/hexane and let the goo that does'nt dissolve behind , pour the naptha/hexane to evap , do it a total of 3 times

what you're talking about sounds like non polar pulls after basification of the plant material , and you've reached freeze precepitation , how long has it been in the freezer ?

However there is a layer on top of the recrystallized free based solution that looks awfully odd like alks maybe, as lime generally sinks if it doesnt dissolve??

yes those are alkaloids however if they did not dissolve in the naptha , they can be anything plant oils , some other trytamines , beta carbolines or whatever ,

if you want full spectrum spice you can use limonene , toluene or something

anyways a lot of terms you use are perhaps used unwisely or perhaps i am just too stoned ..... whatever the case may be i hope this info helps you ....... i'll check this thread again tommorow to add if any assistance is required

don't be frustrated , it will not help ... something will work out , i can feel a good vibe ... let the emusions settle and relax , don't be impatient with an extraction ..... otherwise many errors can happen

 

[Jin]

Thanks I will look into that smokerx. But does anyone have any experience with CaOH that possibly knows what im doing wrong?

you're not doing anything wrong except being a little impatient

1 wait for the results of freeze precipitation or evap it

2 wait for emulsions to settle and than extract the solvent and evap it

 

[MagicGing]

Well i guess idk the terms haha. Swim did an acid bath, defat and threw it out, then basified the polar solution with lime and shook vigourously. Really intense bubbles appeared fairly quickly after the shake, and he noticed the colorful gasoline like substance beside the bubbles, like a np layer. He let the bubbles settle overnight, then in the morning put the solution into a hot water bath and added naphtha. He waited for it all to get warm, and sealed it and rolled it around. He then pulled off the nps, evaped slightly, then added vinegar (i guess called backsalting?) and mixed and waited for seperation. He pulled out the vinegar (that was very milky), and attempted to freebase the vinegar/ alk solution with lime.the bubbles emerged again, along with a layer that looked like white alks for the np layer. He then pulled with room temp naphtha (that had no color change) and freeze precipd it. He noticed nothing happening so he assumed there was no alks in the naphtha. He then got frustrated and decided to use hot naphtha on the freebased vinegar solution, pulled off, freeze precipd and noticed nothing.

I now am happy to type that swim actually sees crystals in the pull with hot naphtha! He assumed the snow globe effect would happen shortly after putting in the freezer (which lead to the frustration). Thanks for the help and motivation jin! Looking forward to tomorrows gvg sesh! First timer tomorrow!!!!

 

[Jin]

He then pulled with room temp naphtha (that had no color change) and freeze precipd it. He noticed nothing happening so he assumed there was no alks in the naphtha. He then got frustrated and decided to use hot naphtha on the freebased vinegar solution, pulled off, freeze precipd and noticed nothing.

I now am happy to type that swim actually sees crystals in the pull with hot naphtha! He assumed the snow globe effect would happen shortly after putting in the freezer (which lead to the frustration). Thanks for the help and motivation jin! Looking forward to tomorrows gvg sesh! First timer tomorrow!!!!

ya now you post is much clearer to undertand , with the info about backsalting

so how long have you waited for the freeze precipitation , generally i salt with fumaric acid, thus have no idea how long FP will take , yet i guess it can take a few hours like maybe even a little more leave it in the freezer for 12 hours just to be safe , or why don't you just go ahead and evap the naptha , later recrystalize whatever you have in minimal naptha for further cleanliness

 

[MagicGing]

I really appreciate the help jin!

Swim thinks he going to let it freeze precip till the AM, then pour off and dry, as no recrystallization should be necessary (since its defated and backsalted), and hes really looking forward to a firsttimer breakthrough with the gvg! Does the freebase stick to the glass jar if its adequately freeze precipd? Like could swim just pour the naphtha out? Or should he bust out the seperatory syringe?

Thanks again

Edit: swim looked in the morning at the jars and noticed cottonball like solids drifting around in the naphtha, however nothing has stuck to the bottom. He is now evaping with a double boilerand hopes he can breakthrough today
Once out of the freeze for about 10 mins, the solids disappeared. Is this normal? It was in the freeze for at least 12 hours. Also would picking it up and looking affect the crystallization? Like maybe make it slow? Would evaping with a double boiler ruin the crystals or possibly boil them off?

Edit #2: just wanted to say im probably checking this thread every 10 mins haha

Edit #3: evapped and nothing was there

Edit #4: actuallllly, i can see a wee bit of powder. Idk thoughh
Edit #5: nothing, unless for some reason its still wet.
#6: still smells of naphtha, so maybe a little crystals are hiding behind it?
#7: nothing at all. Idk how. The only cause i can think of is that it was not sufficiently freebased. Unless putting it in a double boiler ruined it. Any feedback?