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Spagyric is the Word

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coz42

coz42

Rising Star
Spagyric remedies are a very effective and powerful way of administration of entheogenic botanicals. Much related to homeopathy, where a deleterious substance is reversed into a healing remedy between a dilution of water (i.e. anthrax). This is the basis of spagyric processing in which botanical properties are completely liquified. The extraction methods we are more familiar with involving some sort of NPS or another, hydroxides, etc. is in no conjunction with these methods involving a process of boiling, extracting, evaporating, grinding, calcining, and more grinding(repeat) turning into a simplified tincture for sublingual administration. In this thread, I will discuss alternative extraction methods I have come across, simplify and possibly hint to a purer product for my own self-reference. As I do not have the plant material to subject to my own desires atm... :?

Coz sure can dream :roll:

Plant material, let's say B. Caapi, is set up in a percolation column or boiled down to drinkable dose. However, plant material is thrown away to who knows where. We know the mark contains numerous quantities of medicinal and nutritional properties but we are fine knowing that these trace elements are active in a nice cup o'tea. This is rather ineffective in the full potentials of plant substances (Although effective). As an extract of water or IPA(?) is used to extract alkaloids, the extract is diluted to the mother tincture from extraction to create a pure substance of plant material that has been liquified.

[*]Prepare 2L of citric acidified water : 2oz of herb & boil
-As this process follows, when boiling stops when bubbles stop and the matter falls to the bottom of the container, this indicates fermentation has stopped
-Would recommend a hot plate for this, but an open flame works just fine

[*]Filter out solids (Buchner funnel, receiver apparatus)
-Distill off all liquid that will come over at 85 C in receiver
-Leave rest of plant material/water for later usage & incubate overnight

[*] Select sterile soup & herb body to evaporate, incinerate herb to gray ash; calx.
-Place calx carefully in a THP© or similar to be extracted with solvent(?)
-Evaporate the liquid to a powder&repeat extraction three times or so to insure proper pureness of matter

[*]Add powder to motherload tincture to be shaken and distilled for days on or so
-This is a pure form of extraction from what I understand, using all of the plant material
-This is by no means no more efficient than any other method lingering somewhere around this place.


Only would like to point out that I have not tested this method myself as I'm low on plants atm, but would definitely like to perfect this method and thensome. Wine has been recommended to cause fermentation of product and production of phlegm as a replacement for ethyl alcohol (Pretty bad stuff to ingest if you ask me). So I'm still in the learning process myself, as I was intrigued for quite some time after purchasing some products from al-qemi. So a bit sorry if I've happened to provide false information but I'm sure I put this all together piece by piece. I'm just putting this here for self-reference, thx.

More information on spagyric remedies & homeopathy.
 
hey Coz....so i went to Al-Qemi and ordered a bunch of stuff......wound up sending the unopened ones back :(

maybe it's just SWIM....but he found them completely unnoticeable in their effect! all he had to show for his $150 was burned sublingual tissue and disappointment....

maybe he's just too far down the rabbit hole via smoked spice.... he's bummed :(
 
antrocles said:
hey Coz....so i went to Al-Qemi and ordered a bunch of stuff......wound up sending the unopened ones back :(

maybe it's just SWIM....but he found them completely unnoticeable in their effect! all he had to show for his $150 was burned sublingual tissue and disappointment....

maybe he's just too far down the rabbit hole via smoked spice.... he's bummed :(
Click to expand...

Alchemists have earned themselves a bad reputation over the centuries... caveat emptor!

Some things ought not to be bought or sold...?

On the other hand,
the al-qemi website said:
Lately, some of our initiatics are getting attention in entheogen forums, so some people are now expecting something from our Spagyrics that just isn't going to happen. The plain truth: If you're looking for a drug substitute or drug-like experience, please, just go buy some drugs and leave our Spagyrics alone. If you're looking for an intelligent relationship with a plant, in which you are willing to do some work on yourself and look within for wisdom, then please, read on.
Click to expand...

?
 
Antrocles,
You're not really telling the whole story here. When we spoke the other day, you told me a little about what you had been expecting from our Spagyrics, and what came out is that you had read a thread on this forum which convinced you that taking our Spagyrics was "just like smoking DMT", but when that turned out not to be the case, you felt that they had been misrepresented and wanted your money back. This begs a few points.

#1. Despite your anonymous sniping on here, you were able to reach a real, live person, at a real phone number, to help you with your issue. I didn't hide behind a silly acronym, I didn't claim that you must have purchased those Spagyrics from "someone who isn't me", I answered the phone, talked to you, and was completely open about what I offer. This kind of transparency and out-of-the-closet openness is what I have done with these sacred plants for the past 18 years, offering them without hiding or dodging the truth, every day, in the trenches, to whoever wishes to connect with them. Have you shown this kind of real world commitment to this path and served the entheogen community for nearly two decades?

#2. The claim that somewhere on this forum is stated that our Spagyrics are just like smoking DMT is wishful thinking on your part. This claim exists nowhere on this site, you have totally misread the short discussion in another thread.

#3. The issue really comes down to a complaint that you wanted drugs, you thought you were ordering drugs, and when you got my Spagyrics, you were mad because you didn't get drugs. This is just absurd, and why we state that if its drugs you want, then its drugs you should get.

#4. The products you bought and did not "feel" are some of my best sellers. Every year at several festivals around the country, I set up with free samples of all of my Spagyrics, including the three you didn't like. People try them, go sit and meditate, and see what they get. Then, they can come back and buy them or not, and when they do, it's likely that they "felt something" from the sample. The three that you didn't like are some of my bestsellers- I sell out of them at nearly every event, sometimes 40 bottles' worth. So, the fact that you didn't feel anything is fine, we are all individual, but enough people don't agree with you that I think perhaps it's not the products that are the problem.

Like I said when we spoke, if they're not for you, they're not for you. But it's likely that nothing but increasing doses of drugs will ever get you out of that rabbit hole, since you are not willing to work on cultivating any subtlety or intelligence in your relationships with these plants. That's fine, but don't blame your thickness on my Spagyrics.

-Micah
Al-Qemi
www.al-kemi.com
 
Micah. Maybe he had a negative intention or wrong idea in the first place, I dont know. But the way you talk when mentioning 'drugs' seems to be as if only subtlety is the way to go and feeling strong pharmacological effects from a certain substance is a negative thing.

This website is devoted to one particular entheogen, DMT.. Many people feel this to be an incredible substance and have a great respect for it, applying all the knowledge gained from it in daily life, and not just 'getting the kicks from it', even if it is indeed about having the full blown pharmacological effects.


So from what I understands spagyrics is a process which seems to take influence from homeopatics and alchemy. This probably means that the alkaloids which people here are interested in, are present in spagyrics only in minute amounts (if so). For some people this might be interesting, for others not. Its important to respect each side.

But do know that it is possible that a lot of people have deep respect and connection with plant substances and yet would not enjoy spagyrics or homeopathy-style low doses, so they must be aware that alkaloidal concentration is minimal (if thats the case). If so, they should be explicitly told so, and not just using 'work around' language about 'subtlety' or something else. I guess thats reasonable, no?
 
endlessness,
You bring up some good points here, I appreciate the perspective. In my reply, I was just answering his post, which as I said, didn't address the whole issue of his transaction, what he expected and how that was a bit misguided. But, I didn't explain my whole perspective, so I guess some clarification could happen here.

So, I don't actually think that only subtlety is the way to go, and truthfully, I don't find our Spagyrics to be subtle now that I've been working with them for many years. Initially, when we first started, I did find them very quiet in their communications, mainly because I had worked with the heroic-dose approach for years and was expecting that level of overwhelm from the experience. I do still work with large doses of all kinds of entheogens, I find it an occasionally useful practice, so don't think that I believe that is wrong or not the way to go. I have had amazing experiences from all the substances discussed here and more, but I also don't let the expectation that every experience be fireworks get in the way of connecting to something more quietly real.

The problem is not the full-blown pharma experience, as many people are able to connect that way and also with the subtler side. I just think that a kind of callous builds up in the spirit, in which only bigger and more dramatic experiences are expected every time, and anything which doesn't hit like a ton of bricks is dismissed as ineffective. I do think that it comes down to some people being just plain thick from years of overuse, and it frankly pisses me off to have my Spagyrics blamed for it. The number of truly amazing real South American shamans that work with my Banisteriopsis is proof that it doesn't have to be this way. I think we can agree that the full-on jungle tea is one of the least subtle experiences possible, and yet many of these teachers also feel that my work is equally powerful, because they are willing to do much of the inner work themselves, rather than just whining and giving up when their first dose doesn't drag them into the other world with an uncontrollable force of trippy power.

I do also understand that this forum is about concentrated DMT, and that is what people are expecting from the discussion. That is why I originally posted on here, because I have mixed feelings about our Spagyrics being discussed here at all, and wanted to be sure that the proper story was out there about what we do. In fact, if I had seen the discussion that convinced antocles to order, or if he had contacted me before he ordered, as many people do, I likely would have talked him out of ordering our Spagyrics, since I don't think they are what he wants. I'm not saying what he wants is wrong, but I do think it's wrong to go buy an orange, then complain that it didn't taste like an apple. It's not the oranges' fault, so to speak.

And, I am quite clear about this with anyone who asks, in person or on the phone; I can't really be held responsible for his complete misinterpretation of what was stated on another thread which I didn't know about until after the fact. Considering the openness of the work that I do, our willingness to talk about it without hiding behind pseudonyms, and our ongoing efforts to get these plants to anyone who wants them, I don't think we can really be accused of hiding the truth. We're completely out of the closet here, and willing to talk openly with anyone else who wants to be equally upfront. People here may be new to our open approach, but it has been going on for some time now.

As for Spagyrics, they are descended from Alchemy, but not from homeopathy. Homeopathy is dilution to a point where none of the original chemical constituents are present. Spagyrics is exactly the opposite, it is purification and concentration. We use 3-5 lbs. of plant to create about a pint of Spagyric, they are quite concentrated and all the chemicals that bring the plants' communication are there.

For instance, my last Salvia Spagyric had perfect salvinorin crystals forming around the edges of the flask at one point in the process, during one of the intensive concentration stages. And yes, I did try them straight, and it was a wild ride, but that is an isolate of the chemistry and an isolated slice of Salvia's intelligence, which is not what we're after in our lab, so they got stirred back into the entire batch of the Spagyric to be in the context where they lived in the plant. Likewise, our big jar of Syrian Rue fluoresces under UV light- that's harmaline in very purified form. But again, purification is not isolation. There's the difference between what we do and what might be expected effect-wise vs. what is more understood here.

So, despite the concentration of the initiatic constituents, what's not there is the dross, the extra constituents that are often closer to poisons and which are what leads to the more drug-like experiences of other substances. Simply put, that is a path of in-toxic-ation, but unfortunately, again, that is what many have come to expect. It's not a matter of either pure and intoxicating or subtle and diluted. Spagyrics are pure and concentrated, but also purified in a way that allows them to be initiatic but not intoxicating. This is a subtle difference, a third option here that people in the more mainstream entheogen community don't always quite grok.

Anyway, this is enough of an essay for now. We're currently discussing this issue in a series of articles on our site, so if you need more of our ranting, come on over.

Strength & Wisdom,
Micah
www.al-kemi.com
 
alkemi said:
I do think that it comes down to some people being just plain thick from years of overuse, and it frankly pisses me off to have my Spagyrics blamed for it.
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I don't know if a person new to these kinds of things would feel more than someone "overusing" dmt. Feeling the subtler energies takes time for most people. So, overusing dmt probably would not make you thicker than you already was, in fact, it might probably make you more sensitive over time. As you said, over the years people usually grow more sensitive to these kinds of things.
 
Fair enough you explained yourself well and its good that you are upfront about your work. I agree that one should know what fruit they are getting. Yet there are a few points to make:



alkemi said:
I just think that a kind of callous builds up in the spirit, in which only bigger and more dramatic experiences are expected every time, and anything which doesn't hit like a ton of bricks is dismissed as ineffective.
Click to expand...

I understand this insatisfaction and wanting to 'top the experiences' might have been true to you and to some people, but honestly, I dont think it is for everyone and maybe even not for most people. I think specially of ayahuasca, where I know in my own life and see in others that there is no such thing, that one comes with full respect to the experience, and sometimes it is strong, sometimes very subtle (yes it does happen), and one takes whatever happens as a present. Scientific studies of regular use of ayahuasca and peyote have shown no cognitive/social/psychiatric deficit and even some improvements in some cases.

Im not here to defend the regular use of a substance in high doses, not at all, just pointing out that even with regular usage one can still be totally aware of the subtle aspects, have respect and suffer no side effect/damage from this. As Mohammed said, 'there are as many ways to God as there are created souls'


alkemi said:
As for Spagyrics, they are descended from Alchemy, but not from homeopathy. Homeopathy is dilution to a point where none of the original chemical constituents are present. Spagyrics is exactly the opposite, it is purification and concentration. We use 3-5 lbs. of plant to create about a pint of Spagyric, they are quite concentrated and all the chemicals that bring the plants' communication are there.

For instance, my last Salvia Spagyric had perfect salvinorin crystals forming around the edges of the flask at one point in the process, during one of the intensive concentration stages. And yes, I did try them straight, and it was a wild ride, but that is an isolate of the chemistry and an isolated slice of Salvia's intelligence, which is not what we're after in our lab, so they got stirred back into the entire batch of the Spagyric to be in the context where they lived in the
As for Spagyrics, they are descended from Alchemy, but not from homeopathy. Homeopathy is dilution to a point where none of the original chemical constituents are present. Spagyrics is exactly the opposite, it is purification and concentration. We use 3-5 lbs. of plant to create about a pint of Spagyric, they are quite concentrated and all the chemicals that bring the plants' communication are there.

For instance, my last Salvia Spagyric had perfect salvinorin crystals forming around the edges of the flask at one point in the process, during one of the intensive concentration stages. And yes, I did try them straight, and it was a wild ride, but that is an isolate of the chemistry and an isolated slice of Salvia's intelligence, which is not what we're after in our lab, so they got stirred back into the entire batch of the Spagyric to be in the context where they lived in the plant. Likewise, our big jar of Syrian Rue fluoresces under UV light- that's harmaline in very purified form. But again, purification is not isolation. There's the difference between what we do and what might be expected effect-wise vs. what is more understood here plant. Likewise, our big jar of Syrian Rue fluoresces under UV light- that's harmaline in very purified form. But again, purification is not isolation. There's the difference between what we do and what might be expected effect-wise vs. what is more understood here.
Click to expand...

What you have to understand also is that a lot of the people here are open minded but with a scientific rational attitude. I personally for example like the little I know of alchemy. I started paying attention to it after reading Jung's take on it, which I think is very interesting, in which the chemistry reflects inner processes of purification that one goes through simultaneously.

I find that in the end, the point is to see ALL processes as reflection of our inner selves or of The Pattern that permeates everything. But I also like facts and using consciously the information we are able to have with our devised instruments. So taking back to your words, when you talk about 'purification', we must understand what you are talking about and translate it to more down to earth language. From logic it seems to me that what you are doing with spagyrics which I imagine would be the essential oils and the wider variety of alkaloids that are present in the plant. But then if you are providing products with essential oils and variety of alkaloids, it would be interesting to specify what and the amounts, so that one knows how to deal with it.

btw, just because a liquid fluoresces under UV light doesnt mean its necessarily purified or concentrated form of harmala alkaloids. Dilute harmaline/harmine solutions even with 'impurities' such as crude syrian rue tea also fluoresces in light. Thats why the amounts would be a more useful fact to know.


also for example:


alkemi said:
It's not a matter of either pure and intoxicating or subtle and diluted. Spagyrics are pure and concentrated, but also purified in a way that allows them to be initiatic but not intoxicating.
Click to expand...

this is what I mean, for how many people here do you think the meaning of 'being purified in a way that allows them to be initiatic but not intoxicating' will have the same meaning as it has for you? Remember your alchemical path is not shared by all. So be specific about it. And also, when you say intoxicating it is implied that these substances are toxic, which is not true, at least not more true than saying water is toxic. Also it gives the impression you mean that these substances are intoxicating if its not made in the way of spagyrics, which I think is either not what you mean (and in this case maybe try to express yourself better), or if it is what you mean than its quite a significant claim which you should back up with facts.


Im sure you understand all my criticism/suggestions are entirely intended as something constructive.
 
endlessness,
Thanks again for your points, I do appreciate that they are constructive, from a different perspective than my own, and intended to be helpful. And, they are just that, a helpful insight into other ways of working, which I appreciate you offering in a positive way. It's truly the negativity that can happen that pisses me off, not the other viewpoints, so I appreciate you expressing difference in a good way, it lets me do a little pearl diving on myself and refine my thoughts.

As I said, I don't think that the pharma approach is wrong, and I should have been more clear that it is not always the case that the callouses build up, and I think Ayahuasca is so the perfect example of this. Peyote, too, and they support both my point and yours. It's true that regular use of those plants has shown no deficit, I can't see why it would, considering that whole plants are being used in an intelligent way with wisdom and respect. And I agree that the wisdom and respect can happen with pharma substances, too, but from what I have seen in the years of working on both sides is that *whole* plants or extracts of *whole* plants are much more likely to be fruitful in terms of connecting with the self and useful-in-the-real-world wisdom, whereas the pharma approach is more likely to lead to the blown-out, thick as a brick result.

Neither approach is always going to lead to that result in all cases, I wouldn't say that, but there are patterns I have noticed in talking to probably thousands of people on both sides. In most cases, it is much harder to leave the pharma path and go to a more subtle plant path and get anywhere. Not impossible, just harder. Most people coming from a more low-tech plant approach have better skills for connecting with all the effects, the whole context, even when it's not overwhelming. And I don't think that Spagyrics are the only way to do this, I actually like raw plant, too, I discussed this in another thread which I don't need to copy here, but you can see it at:

That's how I get to know these plants, before I work with them at all, I just eat them, all day, every day, for a couple of weeks. I love that connection, and that's a low-tech method available to anyone that doesn't involve anything special except maybe determination and a strong gut. I think it's a great way to get to know the whole spirit of the plant in a slow, contextual way that brings a very deep wisdom, so I'm not saying it's Spagyrics or it's useless.

I understand your desire for chemistry facts, too, but since we're not working to isolate anything out of its context of the whole plant, we don't explain that way. I stated the chemical aspects to show that, in fact, we are working with quite concentrated extracts here, but I also don't really feel that is the proof of the pudding. I felt is was important to let people know that they aren't getting a homeopathic, I think that's a safety issue, but being a whole plant extract created on many levels besides the chemical, the measuring of isolated constituents in our Spagyrics doesn't serve to express their being at all.

As far as being more clear and explaining in ways understandable to everyone who isn't an alchemist, yes, that's important, and that's what we've been doing for some time now. The entire download of the paradigm isn't something I've posted here, and so it's new & unfamiliar, but it is being explained and explored in an ongoing way on our site and in person by us at the many events, lectures, and teachings we do. So, the people here have dropped in late in the game, the expression of the how-why-wherefore may not seem clear in this limited slice, but it's available to anyone who wants to read, talk, and dig around a little.

Strength & Wisdom,
Micah
www.al-kemi.com
 
Yes, all well said. I think we both realize that what matters is having good intentions and making an intelligent conscious use of not only these substances but everything else in life.

I myself dont see a straight distinction between isolated principles and the whole plants or whole extracts, in terms of inherent value. Once again its all about the use. Just as I've had life-changing revelations with whole plants (specially ayahuasca), so did I have very changing experiences with dmt. So if they are not harmful, my intentions are good, and I get benefits out of it just the same, I dont see how it can be a negative thing in any way. I know people around abuse 'naturals' (from mushrooms to more dangerous ones like datura), so I also dont see how necessarily they are better. But I do agree that for some people the purified ones might more easily make them lose control and misuse it. Thats why each one has to see for their own

One last thing about when I asked the alkaloidal content. I understand its not your point but lets take the example of the rue extract. People who are taking SSRI medication might be contra-indicated to taking your product if it has over a certain safe limit. Dosage is important. Maybe you dont want to say every single substance and in which amount to the tenth decimal point of a gram, but maybe an average content of some of the important chemicals is not a bad idea. Also for people who might eventually want to orally activate dmt, needing to know the amounts. Maybe thats not your intented use for it. In ay case at least consider it, if you guys have the possibility of testing such a thing.
 
i have enjoyed the verditas very much..i can feel a very wholesome connection with them..and the silene capensis does wonders for my dreams..i would really enjoy getting into alchemy and start doing it myself..but i do love the al-kemi products..top quality..and extremely tasty
 
Thanks again, endlessness, for your perspective on the whole debate. I have no doubt that you're getting good results out of all your relations with the pharmas and greennesses, I'm glad you're staying intelligent about it and keeping good intentions & progressing as you want to. Good point about the naturals being abused, too, it's probably more to attitude than substance, even though I do still think that some attitudes are more likely to be connected to some substances and not others.

Thanks for your thoughts, too, Jorkest, did you participate in the Oneironauticums, by chance? If you don't know about that, you might be interested in it:

It's a group of people doing conscious collective dreamwork with all different substances and techniques; several of our dreaming Spagyrics including the crazy Silene have been on their list lately. It's funny, just before I read your note here, I got an e-mail from the organizer about their last exploration with our Dreamtime, which went really well for everyone involved. It seems like on so many of my days, dreams are in the air today!

Strength & Wisdom,
Micah
www.al-kemi.com
 
micah- from the moment i told you that i did not feel anything from your spagyrics you came at me with ego. you got your hackles up and immediately began attacking me with your whole "well if you just want to take drugs.." crap. i am in no way "sniping" you here. coz was the person who raved about your products and i bought FIVE different formulas from you. i tried FOUR and none had ANY effect AT ALL. so...i took the last one...the LEAST expensive one and left it sealed and unopened and contacted YOU to see if i was doing something wrong. all i got was ego and "well there must be something wrong with YOU" attitude. when i asked if i could simply send the ONE of FIVE products purchased back, you flat out told me NO and that maybe i needed to learn to "connect" with the product, etc.

my post back to Coz42 was simply me stating my experience. that is what forums are for. and AGAIN you respond with pure ego. "there's nothing wrong with me, it's all YOU"....what gives? can you not just be okay with someone NOT getting your product and telling the person who recommended it that it didn't work for him and that he is bummed. maybe you should re-read what i posted before you get your ego-posture on AGAIN. i am seriously offended by your, quite frankly, snobby attitude. i have been using entheogens for over 20 years and have had hundreds of journeys. i meditate daily and have a deep spiritual practice that embraces all life. i at no point ever discussed anything with you on the phone with anything but humility and openness. i accused you of nothing. i, if you recall, asked you if there was anything i could do to improve my chances of success with your product. what i got from you was almost verbatim "you are wrong, our products are great, we work with shamans all the time who tell us how great we are, if you want to just take drugs like DMT you are obviously too shallow for our deep shit"....

the lesson i have learned from your way of dealing with people cost me $150. cheap lesson. for all those reading this thread....it's free.

i'm very disappointed. for those of you who CAN connect with formulas such as these- i am truly envious. as you can read from my earlier conversations with Coz42, i wanted VERY BADLY for these to work!!

love and gratitude.
 
to all- i DEEPLY apologize for this. this forum is not the place to air this out. i will no longer go back and forth with micah via the nexus. micah, you are welcome to call me and discuss further if you wish. i had no intention of this becoming a "thing" on the forum. simply getting back to a fellow forum person re: his recommendation to give him my take. again, i am VERY sorry.

peace.
 
antrocles,
Actually, the first moments of our conversation were me trying to figure out what you expected of our Spagyrics, where you got that expectation, and why. It was like pulling teeth to get you to talk about it at all. Yes, when you finally admitted that it was a DMT forum, where you had gotten the impression that our Spagyrics were "just like smoking DMT" (your words) I did get a little testy, I'll admit that. Why? Because as I've said, I'm tired of people expecting a drug experience from my work, it is in no way what I offer, present, or promise, and it was not even close to the discussion on this forum, either. Your statement to me then that our Spagyrics had been "misrepresented" is, actually, an accusation. Anyone with any pride in their products would take it that way. You don't jump on someone about the quality of their work and expect a ticker tape parade in response.

So, because of your own misinterpretation and wishful thinking, you ended up with something that didn't pass muster for you. Even though that is not my problem, I offered many suggestions on how to understand, connect with, and benefit from our Spagyrics. I talked to you about dosage, your weight in case the drops needed to be increased because of body mass, and a few other general trouble-shooting points trying to help you get the best out of what you got.

I never said that there was something wrong with you, just with your expectations. I never called you shallow, or wrong, or any of the other negative statements you attributed to me. I stood by my products, maybe defensively in reaction to your attacking opening at the beginning of the conversation. I closed my conversation with you saying that if they don't work for you, they don't work for you and that's how it is, and, in point of fact, I DID agree to refund your money for the unopened bottle, despite the fact that our store terms do state that we don't take returns.

I have dealt with you fairly and honourably in this, I'm sorry that our Spagyrics weren't for you, but I refuse to blame the quality of my products for that.

Strength & Wisdom,
Micah
www.al-kemi.com
 
antrocles said:
the lesson i have learned from your way of dealing with people cost me $150. cheap lesson. for all those reading this thread....it's free.
Click to expand...

Actually, Antony, I'll give you this lesson for free, too. It didn't hit me until after I read this how much of an issue the money was to you. So, I've refunded your payment for all the Spagyrics you got, even the tonics that you didn't originally complain about. I don't keep money that I haven't earned, and I don't want energy from someone who doesn't want to give it.

I post this here since it's unlikely you'll share the full story of how I've tried and hopefully succeeded in treating you fairly all along. This concludes our business, we owe each other nothing further.

Strength & Wisdom,
Micah
www.al-kemi.com
 
I'm glad that this dispute has been settled though I dont understand fault in representing something that had worked for me, and that another had not gone to further lengths of research. I came across the al-qemi website from steering from vendor to vendor of s. capensis (Thx Jorkest) to curiosity of working with rue on this alchemical level. The problem was that I've always found the energy to be much too nauseating and exhausting. There's that climatic effect of nausea present in brews to fine extracts, which is another reason why I would still definitely recommend alkemi's products.

But again, I didn't tell you to spend $150 on products though I wasn't at the position to tell you what to do with your money either. Simply was a recommendation, but as is unfortunate that it hadn't worked for you. I used to take these botanicals as their own without the extra 'kick' to become more acquainted and perhaps expectations would be subtle if one would take the same route.

The alkaloid content should be considered valuable information as -Dry weight of extract : Plant matter- as this info could be somewhat reliable and should be put to consideration. However it may be, reason to why I became so compelled to spagyric processing because of the absence of harsh chemicals as I believe this can be of somewhat importance to those looking for an alternative source for botanical extraction, including the entire plant material. Although some may debunk the discussion of plant spirits, there's definitely more to a plant than what gets your fix; Nutritional, medicinal qualities
 
coz42,
Thanks for your graciousness here, the part that really sucks to me is that you shared something nice about something I made, and then the whole thing blew up. Not at all what I wanted, I really appreciated your original comments on the Rue, and your thoughts since, but when they were misunderstood, I wanted to jump in to make sure that future readers didn't make the same misjudgment. I didn't see anything in your original post to create the impression that antrocles got, and I don't consider your representation faulty or to blame in any way, I hope that I was clear about that. I just thought that if even one person had such a misunderstanding of what they were getting, as a responsible vendor I should proactively explain what I offer to prevent anyone else the same issue.

Anyway, thanks for your positivity, and I'm glad you like the Rue. I definitely like it a lot more our way than via the tea or the two-week trial of chewing (aarrgghhhh!), and I think that aspect of physical exhaustion is a lot of the difference. It's still not one of my favourite allies, I prefer the vines myself, but I know a lot of people do connect with it. It has a different quality than the jungly vines, more of a desert intelligence, "older, crankier gods" is what I sometimes get, which I think is more of the spirit of the plant than the chemistry.

And now, since I've revisited that spirit again so much today, I think I might play with our Rue a bit more and see if something new is there for me.....

Strength & Wisdom,
Micah
www.al-kemi.com
 
since the following was sent via personal email- i can only copy/paste this. this is what i was going by:

from coz42-

"They seem a bit pricey but rest assured they're very effective. Especially the harmala initiatics (aya, rue, passiflora etc.). They've proven to to be.. very POWERFUL!

Just about 3 drops will do it and they say 5ml will care for about 150 or so doses. Their extraction methods seem to be top notch and with a dilution of water, can become a very powerful potion. I definitely recommend."


now- did i misread? possibly....i have a personal opinion of "POWERFUL" that is based on my experiences with smoked spice. considering this was shared via a forum devoted to DMT, i don't think i made any wrong assumptions.
this is the DMT-NEXUS. it is a forum for individuals exploring consciousness via DMT. i appreciate you refunding me my money....now. but doing so in the way you have gone about it, simply to make a point to everyone reading and, again, make yourself out to be "right".....for one who is so sensitive to "energies" i'm in shock by how much ego you act from.

Coz42, i'm glad you have good luck with your homeopathic/spagyric formulas....perhaps you might better help your friend micah by posting about this medicine on a spagyric forum? if no, i can be the FIRST to back up micah's strong desire to clarify that these are in NO WAY WHATSOEVER anything at all like spice in any way. for myself, i come to this forum to share my experiences and learn from others about the sacrament that is DMT. i DO NOT see DMT as a drug in any way, nor do i appreciate anyone passing judgement or taking a holier than thou posture around my path of self-exploration. someone who can meditate and connect with a plant energy is in no way "more evolved" or "more spiritual" than one imbibing spice. i believe 110% in the righteous spirit molecule and it is it's very ability to break one free from one's ego and mental constructs and teach divine wisdom with sacred power beyond understanding that makes me come to this forum and share with my "family".
homeopathic plant essences that require YOU (ego) to "connect" (thought process) with something without any true tangible sensations....they may be right for those who they are right for. but for the people who post regularly on THIS site....they are like using a match vs. using the sun to illuminate the path.

thanks again for refunding my money. now. after all of this unnecessary drama. i still don't fully debunk your product....i simply believe it doesn't work for me. if you had more humility this entire ordeal could have been taken care of in a matter of a minute on the phone. and yes....you are quite right: this concludes our business. we owe each other nothing further.

peace.
 
Wow. Crazy thread. None of my business, really, but as it's playing out on a public message board, I think I'll jump right in:

Having seen lots of recent posts from Antrocles, he definitely comes off as a pretty respectful, contemplative dude. This spagyric woman, on the other hand, not only appears childish and insulting, but clearly doesn't stand by her product - except under public duress. Checking out her website, she uses plenty of colorfully descriptive phrases like "astral travel" and "transformative visions", among countless hippity-trippity others in describing the healing qualities of her "spiritualized essences" (included among them something she actually markets as Sexahuasca). That she has the colossal nutsack to a) play the coy card and try to claim she isn't peddling "drugs", b) insult the entire Nexus community by actually saying that DMT is for the "just plain thick" and "calloused of spirit", then c) troll a website dedicated to discussion of DMT in search of her customer base makes her a hypocrite and someone who will never see a goddamn nickel of this druggie's money.

To Spagyric woman: If you have such a low opinion of this community, go hawk your shitty tonics elsewhere. And get a clue about customer service. You don't personally attack a customer when they call with product concerns, and you don't publicly insult the very customer base you're actively trying to shill to. It doesn't sound at all like the nature of this guy's complaint was that he didn't get a DMT-like affect; rather that he got NOTHING AT ALL from your product. You had better believe in that situation I'd be calling for my money back as well. But then again, maybe that's because I'm not privvy to the "entire download of your paradigm", or whatever the fuck that's supposed to mean. Regardless, you really might have weighed the economic value in choosing the path of least resistance. Your knucklehead attitude and public temper tantrum WILL cost you money... Believe it.

To Antrocles: Glad to see you take the high road, brotha. I would not have been nearly so tactful myself.

To Coz42: Nothing wrong with publicly recommending a product that worked for you, just as there's nothing wrong with Antroclese respectfully expressing disappointment when he discovered that it was bunk.

To the Nexus at large: The only power you have as consumers is to direct your business to reputable and honorable sources. Why buy from a vendor who only stands by their product under fear of public scrutiny? Why buy from someone who holds you and your choice of entheogenic practice in contempt? There are plenty of vendors out there who won't just take your money and piss on you. Don't you get enough of that from the cable company?

Soul calloused thickheads unite!!
 
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