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Spice and Aya

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Fable

Fable

Rising Star
Do any of the turbocharged spacemonkeys out there use their extracted spice for Aya sojourns?
The idea came to me the other day while contemplating changa. There seems to be changa to go around however crystal is less often seen. I thought that if a dose of chang was holding somewhere in the region of 30mg to 50 mg O spice that this might be a way of fairly accurately measuring out the dose required for an oral aya journey if one were to take that path.
I have seen reports of people smoking rue seed before smoking spice and it lasting upwards of 30 minutes, and reports of people smoking chang after drinking vine only and saying it was very much like a full Aya experience.
Personally I think aya should be drunk without the need for smoking anything so what I am really getting at is, if I were to stumble upon some nice changa, would a cone or two be efficacious if throw in a vine only brew to give the full aya experience.
The 30-50mg seems to be what might be expected in a brew according to some aya analysis I saw online.
 
I'm not sure what you actually mean. With Changa you mean Chaliponga?

And you want to take extracted spice together with Caapi (hence the aya)? Instead of the Chaliponga?

Putting extracted spice in the vine brew should work since many Ayahuasca brews have the DMT containing plants in the same brew as the Caapi.

I'm currently in a position to have all the ingredients for Aya plus extracted DMT. Only thing is, I don't know when my next Journey will take off andd the first time will probably be with Caapi + Chaliponga.

p.s. Since I don't know the boiling point of extracted DMT (just saw someone ask that here in another thread) and it's possibility to be lower as 100 degrees C, you have to make sure you put the extracted DMT in a non-heated brew or else there is the change the DMT will be evapped before you take your brew.
 
Changa is the term we have down here for acacia extract (spice) which is on a herbal smoking mix usually containing caapi leaf and a blend of other plant materials such as damiana, blue lotus, calea, brugmansia. Apparently spice on some coca leaf makes interesting changa.
Anywhere up to 50% spice to plant material.
 
It should be fine to use changa but IMO either extract the d yourself or ask whomever you obtain the changa from for the straight crystal. Since the changa is generally made with extracted crystal anyway they shouldnt mind ..
 
SWIM has tried this on quite a few occasions. First time was with 3 grams of rue and 80mgs of extracted dmt....minor visuals.

Another try was with 150grams of Caapi vine brewed over 2 days and 150mgs extracted spice...fell asleep within an hour...woke up an hour later with minor visuals.

Yet another try with 60grams of Caapi vine (different batch) and 250mgs extracted spice....strong visuals, but nothing like a true aya adventure.

Not sure what is happeneing here, but alot of spice is needed for Swim to achieve full enlightenment. Very weird indeed.
 
Dunno, maybe.

SWIM has tried it with rue and rue extract as well with about the same results (regardless of rue dose; 3-4grams rue, 200+mgs of freebase extract).
 
halou said:
It should be fine to use changa but IMO either extract the d yourself or ask whomever you obtain the changa from for the straight crystal. Since the changa is generally made with extracted crystal anyway they shouldnt mind ..
Click to expand...

I have not had any luck crystallising anything, even with a defat and into the freezer, layers of spice came out of solution but at room temperature everything is a honey like oil and the only way to get into a usable form is to put onto something that can be smoked.
Its difficult working with goo.

I have a jam jar full of brewed up aya vine (350g) which should be enough for 4, I think I will brew it up on the day with 4 to 6 cones of changa for an approximation to an aya brew.
 
acolon_5 said:
SWIM has tried this on quite a few occasions. First time was with 3 grams of rue and 80mgs of extracted dmt....minor visuals.

Another try was with 150grams of Caapi vine brewed over 2 days and 150mgs extracted spice...fell asleep within an hour...woke up an hour later with minor visuals.

Yet another try with 60grams of Caapi vine (different batch) and 250mgs extracted spice....strong visuals, but nothing like a true aya adventure.

Not sure what is happeneing here, but alot of spice is needed for Swim to achieve full enlightenment. Very weird indeed.
Click to expand...

I've had the same kind of experience..
Sometimes using extracted harmala alks and some times using plain syrian rue seeds.
Taking down similar amounts of DMT and only getting minor visuals.

The only possible explanation I can think of is that some people have a lot more resistance to the experience than others. For example I have a much harder time breaking through with smoking the spice than every single other person I've introduced, using exact same smoking methods as me.
 
Swim has encountered this a few times while running ceremonies... certain "hardheads" who feel little or nothing from the spice, despite having consumed 200-300 mg of his best harmaloid freebase extract. Swim suspects high mao levels are at work here.

He has actually learned to predict, or rather percieve, a person's enzymatic makeup. Diet seems to be the main factor. You can tell by looking at someone what they eat, hence you can guess their enzyme levels.

acolon and adrian, I'm guessing you perhaps eat a lot of fast food, red meat, fats, refined carbohydrates, etc? Not criticizing your diet or anything, just testing a hypothesis here...

"Natives" typically require much less huasca than some westerners, and they generally eat a "purer" diet of fresher foods. Decayed (read "packaged" or "processed" ) foods contain higher tyramine levels, etc., meaning your body needs to make more MAO. I suspect this also means higher MAO levels in the brain, hence harder to get off smoking spice, hence also a lower level of neurotransmitters, hence a higher likelyhood of being put on prozac or something cuz of a "neurotransmitter defficiency."

In Swim's experience, this has nothing to do with body weight (aside from the fact that people who eat poorly tend to be overweight). Swim has seen people weighing between 150 and 175, who were very heavy into the suspected MAO-increasing diet, who required over 300-500 mg harmaloid freebase extract, whereas Swim is now down to needing less than 200 mg, probly cuz he more or less follows a clean dieta.
 
To answer the original question, when adding freebase spice to the brew, this will work fine but it's best to acidify first, otherwise it may not dissolve well and will fall to the bottom of the container, and may boil off if heated, etc. Breaking up your changa, and mixing it with a few drops of vinegar in a shotglass before adding it would probly work fine. Hypo-thetic-ally, of course.
 
I try and avoid fast food as much as I can and primarily eat home-cooked food and lots of fresh fruit.

Edit: and also my brother, who has the same diet if not much worse than I do in terms of processed foods Trips easily off the spice.

so i dunno
 
SyZyGyPSy said:
He has actually learned to predict, or rather percieve, a person's enzymatic makeup. Diet seems to be the main factor. You can tell by looking at someone what they eat, hence you can guess their enzyme levels.

acolon and adrian, I'm guessing you perhaps eat a lot of fast food, red meat, fats, refined carbohydrates, etc? Not criticizing your diet or anything, just testing a hypothesis here...
Click to expand...

Ding! Adrian might eat right but my diet sucks. McDonalds...Pizza....Taco's....you name it. Fat and Sassy Damnit!

You may be onto something here or maybe not, I dunno. Interesting hypothesis though. I may increase my MAOI quite a bit.

My only concern is the first time I tried to make aya I was young and stupid (damn stupid) and used around 10grams of rue (+ a few extra just in case, more is better right?) and was in harmine hell for 10+ hours...no fun at all. Thank god that the 25grams of MHRB never kicked in. I purged as soon as I slammed down 3 cups of the stuff.
 
This "theory" of the realtionship between the consumption of refined carbs, fast food, possibly alcohol as well makes sense. A high consumption of these foods tends to lower levels of seratonin as well, which of course could be because of an increase in MAO's compensating for the junk food.
 
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