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Spiritual Danger in DMT Usage???

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Rising Star
Among the many psychedelic users, there are a few individuals who use these chemical keys for spiritual growth. It seems that all the major psychedelics are somewhat of a mixed package. These experiences can potentially bring the tripper ecstasy or even very negative realizations. DMT appears to have the same potential, only on a much grander scale. I've heard this question presented to Alex Grey at the request of Roger Essig but I would like to hear your opinions on this subject. In regards to those who use psychedelics to attain spiritual awareness, do you think it's possible that these individuals may encounter a DMT experience which actually hurts their spiritual growth?
This line of thinking leads to a tree of thoughts and questions, a few of which I would like to mention.

Its probable that using these psychedelic drugs will infuse people with a sense of calm or contentment that may or may not (but most likely) have lasting power.

Can spirituality be summed up in terms of well being? If so then most of the time using these drugs will make a regular man a bit more of a spiritual man.

If the reduction of stress is the end result of such practices then maybe the user has achieved anything and everything that spirituality has to offer in respects to health, reaction to emotion and stimulus and maybe even a lengthened lifespan.

If you intend to use these compounds with a goal of familiarizing yourself with those states of mind with the purpose of eventually learning how to generate them without the aid of anything outside of your body then you're question finally gains some relevance. In that regard I think that canned spiritual experiences will bring you no closer to your goals of enlightenment because the final manifestation of that goal will come about by an alchemy of thinking that defines itself outside the realms of powerful experiences and even outside our hopes and dreams.

[EDIT] I guess I missed the point. For a mature "audience" I think the negative impact would be negligible. I believe terrifying experiences to be brain food for the kinds of people who seek these adventures out. Darwin may snap a few necks but they probably were never destined for greater things anyhow.
I believe it is possible, but very rare.

The only few cases I could see where DMT would HURT spiritual growth are

A) grandure..very rarely spice can make people think they are godlike, so much so that it hurts their day to day interactions, obviously this is not a positive thing.

B) such a negative experience happens that the user is psycologically and spritually damaged..again this is extremely rare.
I believe there is a third possible negative impact. That is habitual use. I know most people on this forum have the consensus on the honeymoon theory (it gets old fast), but still, ingesting almost anything not needed for normal metabolism on a daily basis is bad on a spirtual level IMHO. Even something as enlightening as DMT can be abused at low doses (changa is especially easy to abuse if you like the sub breakthrough space). Just my 2 cents.
There's something to be said for the way dmt shows you possibility.
I can see where it could present a person with a temporary spiritual crisis. Turning a learned belief system upside down and sideways.
I think it has more positive potential than negative at least with a marginally sane person with no previous mental disorders.
If a person is interested in spiritual growth than one would assume that said person would be open to and hopefully embrace the possibilities of an alternate or perhaps true spiritual perspective.
I have always thought that psychedelics can accelerate spiritual growth by helping us learn more about ourselves. But they are by no means an effortless shortcut to enlightenment. They can help clarify your own thoughts (particulary subconscious) and motivations so you can see how to change your life to make things better for yourself and others. But you still have to make the effort necessary to change on your own.

Fatcat said:
I believe there is a third possible negative impact. That is habitual use. I know most people on this forum have the consensus on the honeymoon theory (it gets old fast), but still, ingesting almost anything not needed for normal metabolism on a daily basis is bad on a spirtual level IMHO. Even something as enlightening as DMT can be abused at low doses (changa is especially easy to abuse if you like the sub breakthrough space). Just my 2 cents.

it definitely does NOT get old fast... It keeps being one of the most (if not The most) mind boggling impressive mysterious experiences one can have in life! What happens is, its just such a powerful experience that one feels a respect for it.. I've personally never ever met someone who overdid dmt (though I suppose there must be some rare someone)...

It goes in phases, one may use many times in one certain week or month, or months, but then one may pass years without touching it, even if its just there at the reach of the hand.. But its not like one 'forgets' about it, there's still this running energy just by thinking about it or feeling the smell.. hmmmm..

As for the original post, I agree with acolon, that dmt hurting spiritually is quite rare, and those cases are usually grandeur, self alienation and fanatism.. Though I wouldnt say that its specifically dmt that CAUSED it, rather the person had latent issues that 'attached' to the concept of dmt and allowed this latent psychological issue to be expressed..

In any case, on the other end of the question, I dont think just because dmt doesnt usually 'hurt' one 'spiritually', it also doesnt necessarily bring benefits.. For some people in some situations it may, but the important thing to remember is that spirituality is not ideas or accumulation of knowledge in certain subjects, but rather the search for self-improvement and translating ideals into action, trying to be better.. So maybe for some people it would be better to clean up the room or start eating better, instead of using dmt (or both, at different times of course haha ) :)
As varied as the DMT experience is for all those on quest, it would be interesting to see if some kind of unitive voice emerges from these experience that might constitute a kind of DMT Perrenial Philosophy or General DMT spirituality. I would be interested to hear how these experiences in hyperspace might relate to and/or reflect traditional Gnostic ideas. All Bless.
spirituality is a process..it has mountains and valleys like anything else...I dont think DMT can "hurt" that process..even if something begins to think they are god like...noone really learns things the easy way..anything worth learning IMO comes from first hand experience..

If someone begins to think they are superior or god like compared to others..than I guess that is just something they have to experience so that they can see just how far that will actaully get them in the real world..So in that case you could say that they actaully grew more becasue of the expereince..for them it is necessary to go through that in order to learn..

I dont know how DMT could ever get old...
SWIM has found no trip to hyperspace to be the same in any way, each trip is individual and will leave SWIY in a better place spiritually, even if the actual DMT trip hasn't been beneficial. When reflecting upon that Hyperspace trip that hasn't gone well (few and far between) SWIY will benefit spiritually in self-analysis of why the trip didn't go well.

But no person is the same, this is just how SWIM has found that DMT has benefited him spiritually.
I can only speak for work with Ayahuasca...


If one seeks a return trip to the spirit realm, letting his day-to-day life get sloppy can have BAD results fast. Instead of moving forward with a clean mind to invite new spiritual teachings, one is forced to face and deal with all the issues he was pushing aside.

There really is no such thing as escapism when it comes to these particular keys...

I think negative experiences are largely rooted in a failure to actively face problems in life...

Intentions are SO important, key to navigating tough experiences. If my intention is to sit down and talk to god, and god ends up scaring the crap out of me... well... I'd better hurry up and make amends fast, especially if I plan on seeing him again. ^.~ Not quite as literally, but, those are my thoughts.

Also, with the presence of intentions, I fail to see how it is possible to have a bad experience, once it is all over. Even the most terrifying ones are rich with deep questions and teachings, and it is the whole spectrum of these that we seek, correct?
I agree with DMTripper.. That goes for many things.. You have a lot more chances hurting yourself while driving a car too :)
As for DMT hurting you or your spiritual growth I couldn't say.. In my experiences all people that have tried it with me (about 20-25 ppl) where really happy about it and nobody had any kind of spiritual or mental or any kind of problems after the experience.. I have had this kind of problems in the past with LSD but I can't even say if it was real LSD since I didn't make it..
I don't think that all substances are for everyone, but I think you have to try to know that..
The only danger to spiritual growth, is subsuming to the materialistic, monotonistic, daily routine of the western capitalist system. Do not let the system crush your spirit. Always remember you can't buy true happiness, and nothing lasts forever so enjoy the moment!

can we have the image signature removed please?
Very good point, Shoe... The act of balancing earthly life with the inner visions...

I do feel like I am at a point where I could not physically tolerate--as in, I would become stressed out and ill, my wellbeing endangered--finding a way to earn money to keep the roof over my head that did not agree with my spiritual standards (that's a TALL ORDER!!).

The challenge is to find productive, positive, and innovative ways to bring our lessons back to Earth, and make our home a better place. =)

But I wholly understand what it is like to shift between worlds (I was once working a job that was so destructive, I would come home and cry at night)... It becomes increasingly difficult to straddle things that we are "expected" to do, with what the heart feels is true.

Don't let your soul get caught in the cogs of the machine!

And if you do have rough times, pray, trust, speak your intentions to the universe... Endure challenges with as much love and grace as you can muster, and they DO resolve! :D
Well if what you mean by spiritual danger is something that strips you of preconceived notions concerning your personal beliefs and leaves you cold and empty with nothing to believe in. Then the answer is yes it will do that. You can not avoid this anymore than you can try to stop the nausea from a MHRB Aya session. Nothing worthwhile is easy or free and if you see some easy and free benefits these days watch out you are being scammed.

In fact that is one of the main benaficial aspects of psychedelics that I embrace, that does not mean its a walk in the park on sunday morning. Psychedelics are not meant to comfort they are meant to improve your self and this entails being ready and willing to see the truth even if it is something you would rather not see or think about.

One can not sweep the dirt under the rug indefinitely as a psychedelic user because eventually you will find yourself living under the rug along with the things you have been afraid to consider. That is a shame.

DMT may make a atheist of you yet or it may make you get abducted by the race of underground Worm People:shock:

So you better be ready for anything one mans truth is another's mans BS.

Confrontation and desigenarition are the name of the game and the objective being postitive intergeneration.

What really is the key IMO is the interpretation of each journey you do.
Since you experienced, what you do with it all depend of your interpretation.
That's how very ipressive and dysphoric trips may be more constructive cause it force you to take action against bad habits of all sorts.
While prefect bliss comfort you you are doing very well...
I had many time hard time to make sence of some journey and fews days or weeks later reading about ethnology or quantum psychiatry and see acurate analogy between experiences and use it to interprete what or why I've come across...
It's like I'm reading later what I needed to use my experiential material and move forward.
BTW the library in the nexus is so fascinating for that !!!
Thanks you everyone that contribute to that !!
I think that spice among many other things is about perspective. Seeing the world in a different light.
The first perspective that shattered for me was the unconsciously-held, "Humans are the ONLY sentient creatures in the universe!!!!!!"

Realizing the absolute sentience of the Earth (and beyond!) was so eye-opening. I had to totally rearrange my priorities. There wasn't even a rug for me to hide beneath...

Perspective is a POWERFUL thing. As perspective changes, more things can become possible... which is ultimately more empowering on a personal level. But it's definitely not a walk in the park.😉
ms_manic_minxx : For the last few months (indeed, my entire life) I have been re-examining my perspective and constantly looking for a different point of view which would be more advantageous to me.

@MagickVenom : I don't beleive that DMT necissarily makes an athiest out of you; although interestingly SWIS has become athiest since taking dmt. I don't beleive the two necissarilly go hand in hand though; many dmt users are bhudists, or beleive in god, or brahma. I think in general, most of us are so spiritually aware that we see all of these things as one and the same.
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