Saiden said:
Free will does exist as consciousness or being, for in the present moment all possibilites are avaialable. In the present, there is no past and no future. You have infinite choice and can percieve those choices irregardless of the input of the past that no longer influences what may be.
The present is a focal point for eternity in which all things are possible, therefore nothing is determined and one is free to choose any of an infinite of possibilities. That choice being free will, unfettered or constricted by anything from the past or desired outcome from the future.
We always have access to the Now (being), in which we are free.
Well said. I agree with much of this, however, when speaking of the issue of "free will" we need to understand that what the word freedom actually means, when taken into this consideration and about how said freedom effects our perceptual view of reality (or even the existence of the universe). From my vantage point, we have the freedom to embrace or refute what our minds and perceptions reveal to us. We are free to believe our choice is spontaneous. But is it truly?
In other words, to confirm within our psychology and interior perceptual philosophy, or reject appearances as a mirage played by forces we cannot see or understand. So for myself, my personal freedom is limited to either accepting the appearance of things as they spontaneously manifest themselves... or to brush them off the table and seek an alternate view. Such freedom is less about having the power to choose, as it is in having the power to decide how said choice comes into being.
Who am I? Is my awareness born from my existence or is my existence born from my own awareness? The
freedom seems to come into play when I challenge myself and my subjective perceptions. And yes, in this eternal moment, this expanse of the NOW... we are essentially free to make just one vital decision, that of releasing our mental conditioning and SEEING something else in all of this paradigm, this puzzling existential challenge. So are we the direct catalyst or the end result of another source for such a result in our choice?
This turn in the discussion reminds me of the long debates I have had with a good friend of mine who is a Calvinist. His stance was that there is NO free will whatsoever, as
God Almighty has chosen for us, every tiny detail of all of the events of our earthly existence BEFORE we were created. Period. So, nothing we can do as individuals is applicable to our soul's salvation and freewill is an illusion. Other than the overt anthropomorphizing, I disagree with this assessment, as it is founded in blind faith, not reason, intuition or self exploration. It is as debatable as the notion of chaos and random happenstance. I think it is fair to say that it takes a lifetime of practicing being in the present & training the mind to be attentive to the now, to even approach this idea and NOT be influenced by our conceptual predilections.
That being said, I know what you mean and it is quite reasonable to believe that within the focal point of the present moment, we do have certain freedoms available at our disposal. I believe you are implying that this freedom is spontaneous and in-and-of-itself, it is free? Free insofar as it is birthed in the now and is wholly new and if we are empty/transparent in our reception of this perception, a window opens into new horizons.
SWIMfriend said:
There's good reason to believe that's a delusion.
The only way to show that it's NOT delusion is to DESCRIBE a process by which a decision is made (or a path taken) that is NEITHER a deterministic process nor a random process.
Exactly. I can agree with much of this assessment. Whether we use logical deduction or some kind of spiritual intuition to come to this point is irrelevant, for we are each caught within this paradigm. We are hard-pressed to SHOW such a possibility, as it is rooted in our subjective impressions (which is what I suspect you are implying?). None of us can prove or disprove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, what factors are at play, by which we might determine if we have any freedom of choice in this present moment. It behooves us to ponder the significance of our possible freedom of choice but perhaps the very spark if inquisition is built upon by factors which are out of our control?
gibran2 said:
Either something causes a choice to be made, in which case the choice isn’t free, or nothing causes the choice to be made, in which case the choice isn’t free.
Yes, this certainly seems to be a relative truth in this existential equation. For if we make the choice through our conscious will, this is a decision based upon all that we have been gradually conditioned to perceive. Likewise, if another force makes the choice, as with the concept of predestination, there is little freedom involved.
So I guess I am giving the nod to all of these insightful observations, despite the seeming contradiction, as I cannot honestly be sure I know that my perception of anything at all... is not founded in delusion or a mirage my mind is accepting at face value. Or if conversely, I am seeing a new vista into unrealized potentiality. Frankly, it's always good to question everything we think, feel and intuit, right? Perhaps I this state of inquiry, we are beginning to approach the true nature of freedom?
