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Stop trying to understand the nature of hyperspace for fucks sake!
- Thread starter Entropymancer
- Start date
DeMenTed said:
This from the guy who "knows that this is real shit" when he starts seeing "naked hyperspace hoes", and who wants nothing more out of DMT than to "meet the Boss of hyperspace"?
... don't mind if I take that with a grain of salt. Clearly we have different understandings of respect and ignorance.
:lol:Entropymancer said:DeMenTed said:
This from the guy who "knows that this is real shit" when he starts seeing "naked hyperspace hoes", and who wants nothing more out of DMT than to "meet the Boss of hyperspace"?
... don't mind if I take that with a grain of salt. Clearly we have different understandings of respect and ignorance.
We can try to understand hyperspace, but I don’t think we ever will.
I have my own beliefs regarding the nature of my experiences with DMT, as we all do. I haven’t yet shared many of my beliefs and experiences, but I hope I’ve gotten this across: they’re MY BELIEFS.
My beliefs are mine and mine alone. They’re personal. And they are beliefs. They’re not facts or truths or scientifically provable hypotheses. We don’t know what’s really going on beyond our subjective experience, but sometimes it’s fun to speculate.
I find it easy to accept others when they express their beliefs (as long as they express them as beliefs), but I’m learning more and more (not really learning, maybe re-learning, since it’s something that should be obvious to me) that most people don’t want their beliefs challenged. They don’t find respectful intellectual speculation and dialog about the nature of existence to be fun. They find it threatening.
So I’ll try to keep that in mind when posting in the future.
I have my own beliefs regarding the nature of my experiences with DMT, as we all do. I haven’t yet shared many of my beliefs and experiences, but I hope I’ve gotten this across: they’re MY BELIEFS.
My beliefs are mine and mine alone. They’re personal. And they are beliefs. They’re not facts or truths or scientifically provable hypotheses. We don’t know what’s really going on beyond our subjective experience, but sometimes it’s fun to speculate.
I find it easy to accept others when they express their beliefs (as long as they express them as beliefs), but I’m learning more and more (not really learning, maybe re-learning, since it’s something that should be obvious to me) that most people don’t want their beliefs challenged. They don’t find respectful intellectual speculation and dialog about the nature of existence to be fun. They find it threatening.
So I’ll try to keep that in mind when posting in the future.
Xenogears
Rising Star
Entropy dude this is a great post I have been having very similar thoughts lately.
People look down on and even insult other people because their experiences with the substances don't have the same meaning / results, when people who use psychedelics should be the first people to know there is no universal truths in a universe of so many different perceptions. People who do this, like you say, are much like Christians in the holy wars persecuting people who did not believe the same thing as they did.
I know there is much to be learned from psychedelic substances about yourself and your place in the world as well, but sometimes I think some psychedelic users just perform a sort of "mental masturbation" with themselves
People look down on and even insult other people because their experiences with the substances don't have the same meaning / results, when people who use psychedelics should be the first people to know there is no universal truths in a universe of so many different perceptions. People who do this, like you say, are much like Christians in the holy wars persecuting people who did not believe the same thing as they did.
I know there is much to be learned from psychedelic substances about yourself and your place in the world as well, but sometimes I think some psychedelic users just perform a sort of "mental masturbation" with themselves
Sorry, but I have to comment again.Entropymancer said:
A boring waste of time? Since when is discussing the nature of existence a boring waste of time? Since when is discussing life, death, science, physics, cosmology, mind, brain, body, belief, religion, and spirit a boring waste of time? One of the MANY real values of DMT is that it stimulates us to ponder and discuss the very things whose discussion you consider to be a boring waste of time.
Entropymancer said:
This is your belief, and I respect it as such.
I introduced a friend to DMT – someone who never heard of it and had absolutely no experience with it. I described some of my experiences to her, and tried to give her some idea of what to expect.
She described her first experience – she saw three “jesters” spinning in front of her. I’ve NEVER seen jesters, and when I was describing to her what she might expect, I didn’t mention jesters, elves, clowns, or anything remotely connected (I described some of my experiences, which have never included these elements).
So how do we explain the appearance of jesters? Many other people have reported seeing jesters. Does DMT trigger the “jester center” in our brains? Are there really jesters out there somewhere? How does seeing jesters “resonate” with my friend? Does she have some subconscious need or desire to see jesters? And why haven’t I ever seen jesters? (I’ve seen many sorts of entities, but they’ve never been remotely humanoid.)
These are interesting questions! And discussing them is not a boring waste of time.
(By the way, my friend really didn’t like the physical sensations during the experience, and decided that DMT is not for her.)
This seems to be only about smoking DMT which many people have decided is almost useless because of it's mass intensity and brevity.
I didn't think so until I accidentally took 150mg of jimjam DMT thinking it was 80-85mg using 150mg rue extract to potentiate.
This shook me to the core and I experienced things completely unlike anything when smoked.
I experienced one-ness with the cosmos, something I only later read about (by Carl Sagan)
I surrendered everything and experienced the ineffable, I can remember experiencing it but I could never put it in words.
This I also later read about in "The psychedelic experience" by Tim Leary.
I've always described every psychedelic experience in detail to the T and this one completely rocked me and for over a week I felt misplaced in sober life.
Even though smoking DMT I had gone slightly "deeper" than I was on the pharma, NOTHING is like being in hyperspace for more than 2 hours!
I've broken through 2 times since then and it is almost laughable how brief it is. While the room is still morphing and I see 4 foot long tracers I open my eyes and go to my computer and recount the experience, which generally is just a note of the intensity because pure DMT seems to have little character along...
the whole experience is quite benign and nil inspiring compared to pharma.
That being said I do think that smoking DMT can help with personal issues, though I think medium/low doses of LSD would be the best for that.
I didn't think so until I accidentally took 150mg of jimjam DMT thinking it was 80-85mg using 150mg rue extract to potentiate.
This shook me to the core and I experienced things completely unlike anything when smoked.
I experienced one-ness with the cosmos, something I only later read about (by Carl Sagan)
I surrendered everything and experienced the ineffable, I can remember experiencing it but I could never put it in words.
This I also later read about in "The psychedelic experience" by Tim Leary.
I've always described every psychedelic experience in detail to the T and this one completely rocked me and for over a week I felt misplaced in sober life.
Even though smoking DMT I had gone slightly "deeper" than I was on the pharma, NOTHING is like being in hyperspace for more than 2 hours!
I've broken through 2 times since then and it is almost laughable how brief it is. While the room is still morphing and I see 4 foot long tracers I open my eyes and go to my computer and recount the experience, which generally is just a note of the intensity because pure DMT seems to have little character along...
the whole experience is quite benign and nil inspiring compared to pharma.
That being said I do think that smoking DMT can help with personal issues, though I think medium/low doses of LSD would be the best for that.
Certainly it can be interesting to discuss the nature of existence, cosmology, physics, etc. And certainly it can be useful and interesting to bring insights and ideas from hyperspace to bear on these questions.
What I'm objecting to is people using their personal/individual insights from hyperspace as the sole foundation of an argument. I just had someone tell me that all matter is just soundwaves because he'd learned that by thinking about it. That's the sort of puerile argument that's boring and gets nowhere.
Discussing where the DMT experience comes from does seem kind of like a moot point to me though... we may be able to put a finger on it someday, but I sincerely doubt that we have the tools to do so right now. I'd rather find value than spin whimsy.
And once again, the post was intended somewhat hyperbolically. My main point is that people seem to be getting caught up chasing their metaphysical tails when they could be directing their experiences towards improving themselves and their lives.
What I'm objecting to is people using their personal/individual insights from hyperspace as the sole foundation of an argument. I just had someone tell me that all matter is just soundwaves because he'd learned that by thinking about it. That's the sort of puerile argument that's boring and gets nowhere.
Discussing where the DMT experience comes from does seem kind of like a moot point to me though... we may be able to put a finger on it someday, but I sincerely doubt that we have the tools to do so right now. I'd rather find value than spin whimsy.
And once again, the post was intended somewhat hyperbolically. My main point is that people seem to be getting caught up chasing their metaphysical tails when they could be directing their experiences towards improving themselves and their lives.
you have a good point entropymancer, I guess the title arises a quite confrontational feeling, but your tone in the posts is obviously moderated and well-reasoned. I agree that some people seem to be 'trapped' into their models for the experience, and its important to have a more humble attitude. Its natural that people try to answer questions but this is only of benefit if one remains with one foot to the back and can get step back out of one's current explanatory model and think outside of it and put it all into perspective 
OHHHH, well with that I totally agree.
I've seen that from time to time people spouting off about their personal discoveries being the answer to all of man's problems.
The title does make the thread seem like an attack on those who like to philosophize, at least at a glance. it seems much of the replies are based upon that assumption.
I've seen that from time to time people spouting off about their personal discoveries being the answer to all of man's problems.
The title does make the thread seem like an attack on those who like to philosophize, at least at a glance. it seems much of the replies are based upon that assumption.
DeMenTed said:
I have no idea what you're trying to say DeMenTed... "'spin whimsy' lol peace" is a pretty far cry from a coherent point, don't you think? Could you perhaps elaborate?
Edit: apparently DeMenTed deleted his post?
Entropymancer said:
That makes alot of sense..and I think that logic also applies in terms of the general sense of this "godhead" people talk about..where they spiritualize the entire universe(which isnt bad), yet forget about our immediate environment..the earth..
I see this alot with the whole trans-humanist ideology(which I dont disagree with persay), and IMO it is whats lacking inmost trans-humanists..for all intensive purposes it makes a hell of alot more sense to see the earth as the godhead(for now) and put aside ideals of some sort of universal oneness that trancends our earthly connections..becasue while it may be true at some level, it is irrelevant to the situation we are in currently.
People tend to focus at times on these grand cosmic ideas, and the the fundamental and existentail connections we have to the earth are sort of forgotten..everythign we do right now, all of our technology should be executed with that in mind..this is what happens when you get to far ahead of yourself..which IMO is what monotheism in relation to the church represents, a destructive skipping ahead ideologically that disrupts the fragile balancing act we walk as tiny cells within a system we are 100% dependant upon. Animism was akin to a program we were running..monotheism is like an operating system we attemped to download into a program that cant sustain it.
i'm definitely a sort of pantheist.
i know...hard to imagine, given my strong science background
i know...hard to imagine, given my strong science background
bonestoner
Rising Star
is it just me or was this thread bout to get ugly... thanks for being grown-ups guys
I humbly retract my thesis in light of the inspiring ministrations of Pokey the Wise 8)
