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Substance - Meditation?

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T

ThereBlesser

Rising Star
Meditation... Can this actually lead to a "trip"? Ive meditated for months trying to find a way deeper into my mind, the farthest i get is maybe some Auras that look to form shapes, a few times i couldnt tell if it was real or fake but felt vibrations in my head... As far as not knowing meditating before sleep usually leads me to loooong dreams yet always end in my vision of Koleidascopic overtaking from all around me ( LIKE DMT ) and i ask because only recently, also i wake up and with my eyes closed its like I still see Auros (Or-Uhs) Usually green and moving back and forth like water... Months of practice and belief, Are the signs and occurences part of it? Is there deeper meditation?
 
Http://dmt-nexus.me/users/house/dmtdiagram.png check this out.

I was first taught meditation 21 years ago and have practiced and experimented with it ever since.
Meditation didn't make sense to me until I drank mushroom tea and sat there with my eyes closed sitting full lotus for many hours. Stillness. Control of the breath and heart. Just letting the river of the mind wash over me.

Yesterday I walked out to the cliffs and sat down and meditated in the same way. Sober. Nothing happened. That's the point. Nothing is really supposed to happen. I connect with my body, my posture, my breath, the stillness, and the wind blowing through my mudras. The hour I spent in this position is now imprinted on who I am forever and these imprints do make a difference.

I would stop worrying about auras and tripping out and just relax and enjoy the simplicity of meditation. It doesn't need to be anything more than that.
If you are just looking to trip out then eat some psychedelics, or practice wake induced lucid dreaming, or holotropic breath work, or build a dream machine.

It's when you combine meditation with a psychedelic that the 'magic' happens, but dont let that stop you from practicing and enjoying it sober.
 
Yes, it will get deeper. The mind is a great tool and can do amazing things when used properly.
I feel like psychedelics are brief reminders of our minds true potential.

Eckhart Tolle: I took it once just to try it out because people told me this [present awareness] is like acid isn’t it? And I always say I don’t know, I haven’t taken it. And finally I said okay, I need to be able to answer these people, so I’m going to try it once. And so What I experienced was the amplification – everything was vibrating – there was an intensity of smell, hearing, the visual, tasting – everything was amplified. Nothing special that I can say otherwise, but some people say “Woah, the world can be so alive” – It always is! You just don’t know it because of the screen of your thinking. So here, this is much better than acid – there is a slight similarity but here (present awareness) you notice it more because you become more awake.

I'd like to see what he has to say about freebase dmt.. Lol
 
I go out in the phalaris fields and meditate with the frogs and songbirds into the akashic all the time before I harvest. Nothing doesnt happen to me, but there is no point in trying to decide what is and what is not sopposed to happen. For me, I tune into the resonance and enter into tryptamine spaces and then when it happens the frogs start to sing even more and it becomes this constant droning carrier wave flooding the rainforest with fractal coherance. I have had visions of buddhas shrouded in mandalas durring these experiences, without taking any exogenous tryptamine or beta carbolines or cannabinoids. Of course when I do take DMT out there it's even more powerful.

I have no logical explaination for why the frogs sing more once I tune in, but they do.

Meditate in your room with buzzing computer frequencies, thats a whole other thing.
 
While I do think that meditation can lead to some very deep and altered states, I don't think that this is a useful goal or purpose for engaging in it. Seeing auras or other visionary phenomenon is no yardstick to judge the quality of your meditation.

In Buddhism, these occurrences are called "nyam" which are considered distractions to true meditation. I think the signs of meditation becoming really effective occur during post-meditation. You start to become more centered and are less apt to be tossed around by your turbulent mind. You also become more sensitive and aware of your surroundings and are more content in general. A deep cloud of peacefulness surrounds the experienced meditator.

I guess what I am trying to say is don't confuse meditation with drugs. Some may disagree with me, but I don't think that meditation is very useful for inducing psychedelic states. Meditation is more like having a gym membership for your mind.

This is not to say that meditation cannot lead to profound experiences. One of the purposes of meditation, at least in Buddhism is to achieve a state of mental clarity. Once this state is achieved, then you can use that clarity to have extreme and profound insights into the nature of reality. The state of clarity is called shamatha and the insight is called vipashyna.

I urge you to keep meditating, but don't expect to "trip" as if you took a hallucinogen. I think meditation and psychedelics complement each other, but they are not the same. Meditation can help prepare you for a trip and can help you to assimilate it afterwards. I guess I feel that you are reducing something vital from meditating if you are using it to experience some hallucinatory phenomenon.
 
Thanks for all the responses, im still new to the site and dont know how to reply to a single person one by one.

With everything said, I Learn, No words go ignored.

Although one thing id like to clarify is NO im not meditating to "trip out". Just wondering cause the sense of "Peacefullness" has i guess been getting more peaceful?

And the vibrating which to me has to be all mental ( Just Like DMT ) Kinda made me jump and wonder Why this happen?

I guess in the end my spiritual journey only began a few months ago, Not through drugs, but Actual "Happenings" In The Space we call the world...

I Find A Sense Of Happiness When Meditating, I know NOTHING about meditation, i "Learned" by one day Just doing it i guess? It even makes the day easier and music more vibrant.

Which is the point of this post, ( Considering mediatation is a scarce subject here considering everything here is basically about conciousness ) if there is more to this wonderful craft.

IM ALL EARS. Thanks to everyone Ahead of time :D
 
I also find meditation can at time produce trip like feelings/visions. For me sometimes I'd rather just sit and meditate than actually trip. But there's a time and place for everything.
 
Don' t have any expectations. Meditation can take lifetimes to master, try smoking a bit of Ganja laced with a light dose of our favourite molecule, followed by some Asanas ,stretching and relaxation ... That should help:)
 
flowersniffer said:
Don' t have any expectations. Meditation can take lifetimes to master, try smoking a bit of Ganja laced with a light dose of our favourite molecule, followed by some Asanas ,stretching and relaxation ... That should help:)
Click to expand...

No Molecule for me, A bit of a Molecule Mushroom Mix Gave me everything i needed about 2 weeks ago :) Although to anyone who replied on this post, The day after i posted this i meditated as usual with these comments in mind. I Finally stopped "expecting" or Trying to make something happen, AND IT HAPPEN ON ITS OWN. Needless to say it reminded me of my sober minds power, Since ive just enjoyed the meditation for what it is, and if i ever i guess you could say "Transend" again then so be it :D
 
While experiences through the inner senses - visions, sounds, smells, sensations/energy movements (kriyas), or tastes - are signs of progress in meditation, they are best left unattended and as soon as the awareness is there, the attention should be brought back to the witness of them and kept there to the extent possible, which grows with practice.
 
Modern brain imaging technology is giving us some interesting insights in this area.

We have two alternate networks in our brains. One is the Default Mode Network which is associated with high level constructs such as sense of self and ego and is implicated in inward focused processes such as fantasizing and daydreaming. The alternate network is the Task Processing Network which is associated with various outward focused attentional processes such as interacting with our environment and engaging in various problem solving tasks. Generally these networks function independent of each other, that is if one is active the other is dormant, and they switch back and forth depending on what type of activities we are engaged in.

Both meditation and psychedelics, as well as hypnosis and other consciousness altering practices, are associated with a decrease in activity in the Default Mode Network. This is quite intriguing as it demonstrates a biological basis for states of ego dissolution. Taking this a step further, we find that in states of really deep meditation wherein the meditator undergoes a blurring of the lines of subject/object duality and experiences states of oneness we see relative deactivation in both the DMN and the TPN. We find exactly the same effect on larger doses of psychedelics.

Pair this with the fact that meditation and yoga are demonstrated to increase production of endogenous tryptamines such as melatonin and serotonin and lower endogenous levels of MAO and the parallels are quite striking indeed. We also find similar overlap in EEG research with the majority of the more profound meditation and psychedelic states taking place when the neurons in the brain are oscillating in the theta frequency range.

Perhaps these states may have more in common than we typically give them credit for.

References and Resources​
Brewer, J. A., Worhunsky, P. D., Gray, J. R., Tang, Y. Y., Weber, J., & Kober, H. (2011). Meditation experience is associated with differences in default mode network activity and connectivity. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 108(50), 20254-20259.

Carhart-Harris, R. (2013, April). Brain imaging studies with psilocybin and mdma. Presentation delivered at Maps psychedelic science 2013, Oakland, California. Retrieved from

Carhart-Harris, R. L., Erritzoe, D., Williams, T., Stone, J. M., Reed, L. J., Colasanti, A., ... & Nutt, D. J. (2012). Neural correlates of the psychedelic state as determined by fMRI studies with psilocybin. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 109(6), 2138-2143.

de Fontes, F. P. X. (2012). Alterações da default mode network provocadas pela ingestão de Ayahuasca investigadas por Ressonância Magnética Funcional.

Devi, S. K., Chansauria, J. P. N., & Udupa, K. N. (1986). Mental depression and kundalini yoga. Ancient science of life, 6(2), 112.

Harinath, K., Malhotra, A. S., Pal, K., Prasad, R., Kumar, R., Kain, T. C., ... & Sawhney, R. C. (2004). Effects of Hatha yoga and Omkar meditation on cardiorespiratory performance, psychologic profile, and melatonin secretion. The Journal of Alternative & Complementary Medicine, 10(2), 261-268.

McGeown, W. J., Mazzoni, G., Venneri, A., & Kirsch, I. (2009). Hypnotic induction decreases anterior default mode activity. Consciousness and Cognition, 18(4), 848-855.

Razam, R. (Producer) (2014, February 22). Dinner with Dr. Juan. In a Perfect World. [Audio podcast]. Retrieved from 81: Dinner with Dr. Juan

Tooley, G. A., Armstrong, S. M., Norman, T. R., & Sali, A. (2000). Acute increases in night-time plasma melatonin levels following a period of meditation. Biological Psychology, 53(1), 69-78.
 
I have found meditation crucial to the psycedelic experience but not so much the other way around. However non-recreational psycedelic experience with intention set by meditation has brought me to want clean meditiation even more. I am a fan of lucid dreaming as well and my recent fast from all substance has amplified these journies. Holotropic breathwork has been coming up more in my research. Has anyone had direct experience? I am about to read Stanislov Grof's book.
 
Hello,

I just finished a meditation presentation today for certification purposes and will share some brief knowledge and experience on the subject.

Meditation is the stillness of being. By physically meditating, you are opening yourself to a space that already exists. Within breathing, observation, gentleness and quietness, you are able to see clearly. It doesn't have to involve a particular practice, but rather just being aware of self, constantly. Listening is enhanced and you allow yourself to transcend into a greater sense of awareness and clarity with ease and effortlessness.

There is much debate on the subject, yet, medical and scientific literature are showing much more valid and prominent evidence of its benefits and role in calming, connecting and ultimately restoring balance to the mind, heart and body.

[Review of the effects of mindfulness meditation on mental and physical health and its mechanisms of action] - PubMed

Psychedelics and meditation have some similarities. Besides ingesting a psychoactive, the combination of entheogenic experience and meditation can prolong the effects greatly(imo and experience.) Some psychedelics can even lead to the state of 'Sunyata,' which comes naturally with experienced meditation.

:thumb_up:
 
That's very interesting, dreamer042.

This dialogue, posted by bodhi elsewhere on the forum, offers some nice insights in meditation.
It’s possible to look for the one who is looking and to find, conclusively, that no one is there to be found.
Click to expand...
I can definitely see how this sort of insight in our own mind can induce euphoric or trippy (if that's the word) states.
 
I believe it was Terence McKenna that said anyone can achieve the psychological changes associated with psychedelics, through meditation. Though, with meditation the person is constantly pushing to achieve this, whereas, with psychedelics they find themselves saying "Uhm... Where are the brakes?"

But yes, I believe that through enough meditation (and quite a lot of it, at that) anyone could bring about changes in their psyche. You just need time and patience, my friend.
 
Professor Paradise said:
I believe it was Terence McKenna that said anyone can achieve the psychological changes associated with psychedelics, through meditation. Though, with meditation the person is constantly pushing to achieve this, whereas, with psychedelics they find themselves saying "Uhm... Where are the brakes?"

But yes, I believe that through enough meditation (and quite a lot of it, at that) anyone could bring about changes in their psyche. You just need time and patience, my friend.
Click to expand...

I Agree but Disagree, If i told my Story most would understand.

But Ive Reached Altered States Through Natural Meditation ( Yet Not Shroom Altered States or LSD ). I never did a psycedelic till a few months ago and meditated ONLY a month, Took a break for a few months then one morning randomely decided maybe i should again. A DAY AFTER THIS POST! I then finally can say ive Transcended If thats the word to use.

Then it Just so happen That Night was the Blood Moon ( I didnt know that morning i meditated ) Which was a VERY VERY interesting coincidence.

Anyway the only part i disagree with just not completeky is The "Time and Practice" Yes These are keys. But what got me there was COMPLETE DISCIPLINE and a 100% Undoubted Faith that i could do it.

Time and Practice are parts of discipline YES.

But when i say discipline i mean on a Level far more then just the word.

Another thing i believe is my undoubted faith got me there. there wasnt a 1% thought in my mind saying it was impossible or i couldnt do it. Not EVEN a 1% chance saying i need more time and practice.

This will probably be one of my last replies on this post unless i get questions about something.

But all in ALL. If i can give one single tip that if taken with the intent to believe me and Understand on my level.

Discipline and Faith are FAR MORE POWERFUL than time and practice.
The Light that Shines in Me is the SAME that shines in all of us.
Were all in the same stage of Evolution. We can ALL achieve these
states, Its within us all, WE JUST HAVE TO FIND IT!

Take it from the young 18 Year old whos achieved states of consciousness far deeper into the mind then most.

The 18 year Old who Understands VERY well how to use the tools of the universe, Never abuse Just look for the signs. Were all guided by the universe itself. We are The Universe, We created it as it created Us.

Discipline and Faith. We Are Creatures Of Unexplainable Light.

With that said Thanks For all The Help Nexus.

Bye :D
 
I think some people (like me) simply need (a LOT) of psychedelics to dissolve boundaries of ordinary human consciousness. While others seem to be naturally going with the flow. And others still, are able to get there with just one dose of psychedelics. I guess I have to thank Dreamer042 for sharing this enormous insight with us into the human brain because with it comes an incredible potential for self-exploration.

This thread :love:
 
As a working man, living in this rushed world i don't think you will ever go as deep as when you live for instance in India and devote your life to meditation.

When Ram Dass (Richard Alpert) moved to India he took a batch of LSD with him, his Guru asked Ram Dass to give it all to him, this was a LOT of LSD a stock to get him going for a few months, the Guru took it all at once and it didn't visually affect him at all.

Ram Dass figured, "you don't need to take the train to Chicago when you're already there".

It's definitely possible to reach high levels of consciousness purely by meditating, but as long as you don't devote your life to it i don't think you will actually reach Nirvana. :)

Nevertheless, meditation is extremely beneficial for your mental and even physical health, and while or before tripping it definitely help to stay calm at rougher episodes.
 
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