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Substance - Meditation?

Migrated topic.
I guess as a Westerner I just don't have the patience to put in the years necessary to reap the full rewards of mediation. I took yoga for 14 years, did some serious meditation, but never got close to the altered states I experienced through chemical means.

That said, as has been stated earlier by others, mind tripping is not necessarily a goal of meditation. Meditation has all kinds of positive effects on the nervous system, the heart and the endocrine system. It calms the mind, lowers blood pressure, and reduces anxiety. With everything going on in our fast-paced world and all the distractions of work, social media, TV and so on, meditation is a way to feel more grounded and whole. So I don't think pursuing some kind of vision state is the right way to approach it. Rather, it may be an unlikely bonus for some.
 
Professor Paradise said:
I believe it was Terence McKenna that said anyone can achieve the psychological changes associated with psychedelics, through meditation. Though, with meditation the person is constantly pushing to achieve this, whereas, with psychedelics they find themselves saying "Uhm... Where are the brakes?"

But yes, I believe that through enough meditation (and quite a lot of it, at that) anyone could bring about changes in their psyche. You just need time and patience, my friend.
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Pardon me for offering friendly counterpoint to this statement, because I am on-board with what you say, 100%… but Terrence was not particularly well-practiced in sitting meditation and emphatically said that the psychedelic experience and meditation were really quite dissimilar. He felt that meditating was essentially, a focus of attention upon nothingness. Kinda like putting one's mind on pause? Whereas with tripping, there is a tremendous and immediate elevation to the depth of the voyager's perception.

Such sudden expansion launch the psychonaut into alternate realities. With that declaration, he added that meditation was essentially, "sitting or laying down with your eyes closed" and said that he did so often. This is more of a state of deep relaxation, in strict definition and I truly feel this is also very key to any balanced individual's equilibrium. I personally call this kind of keenly-stilled mindset, "undoing". 8)

Perhaps you are thinking of Baba Ram Dass, instead? The former Dr. Alpert claimed to have "achieved nearly all of the state's of consciousness" he had encountered from LSD, mescaline and mushrooms, through deep meditation. Nearly, mind you... and there are some HUGE differences, in this light. In my own experiences, I would wholly concur. That being said, many aspects of the entheogenic voyage are unique to the sudden expansion triggered by such powerful chemical catalysts and the molecules responsible (essentially, the JuJu of the Spirit Plant Allies).

But it is also true that we all mean something slightly different, using the term, "sitting meditation", depending upon one's specific spiritual practice. Meditation can be as simple as watching the breath flowing in and out, a continuum ad infinitum... as this is congruent with placing one's attention upon being very focused, relaxed, quiet, centered and empty. Such an exercise of impartial observation and abandoned release, is seen within Vipassana and Chan/Seon/Zen Buddhism.

Meditation can also be highly energetic and quite visionary, as with Kundalini Yoga, Kriya Yoga,Surat Shabd Yoga and Taoist Qi Gong. Sufi practices also generates and cultivates tremendous energy shifts and altered states of conscious-awareness. So it only makes common sense, that we objectively consider this equation from as many angles as we might contemplate about our particular linguistics, intentions and semantics. I like this thread topic and encourage everyone here to freely engage and/or share your perspective. :thumb_up:
 
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