Supplements - Omega 3 fish oils, vitamins, minerals , etc

[endlessness]

Do you guys and gals take any supplements usually?

If so, why?


Personally I think if you have a propper balanced diet, there isn't generally a need for supplementation, but it also depends on your own body, context, specific condition and needs, etc. But before even thinking of supplements, I think the most important is to eat good healthy food and exercise regularly.

That being said, I have recently just ordered Krill oil to start taking it once in a while for the omega 3s, due to the fact that, not living in Brazil anymore, I don`t have a local sustainable source of fish and their omegas. My dad has rheumathic arthritis, which is an inflammatory condition, and it might have a genetic factor, so I'd rather avoid that by having a diet that includes significant amounts of antiinflamatory fats. Plant sources for omega 3 such as hemp oil only contain ALA which have a very poor rate of conversion into DHA, one of the more usable forms of omega 3.

So I`ve been looking into krill oil because it seems to present several advantages over other omega sources. The krill omegas are in a different molecular form which seems more advantageous, it's a phospholipid which is the highly bioavailable form our body needs, as opposed to the usual fish oil triglicerides. Also, krill oil is caught in clean antarctic waters, being a low chain feeder and therefore not accumulating heavy metals, and being an abundant species. Also I am getting a specific brand of krill oil which is certified by MSC so it is sustainably caught.

Other than that the only other supplement I very ocasionally take is vitamin b12, mostly because I just got a big pack for free and sometimes I reduce my intake of animal products when I can't get sustainable organic products, so I take the b12 just in case.


It is important to note that supplements are a double edged sword and often they may be counterproductive, unnecessary or plain dangerous. I highly recommend everybody taking any supplement to really research the pros and cons.

 

[۩]

When my carpal tunnel flares up I eat glucosamine/msm daily until it stops. I don't understand the physiology but I know it helps to alleviate symptoms.

 

[anrchy]

I take Sunflower Lecithin especially for the choline. I have an essential amino acid supplement that i take everyonce in awhile. Green vibrance probiotics. 4,000 iu of vitamin D3, not a lot of sun where i live and I work indoors. I have rainbow vibrance which contains 4x the daily requirements of fruits and vegetables. and Krill oil. I also use virgin coconut oil when I cook.

My diet is not so great. I know I am missing out on a lot of nutrients I need and eating correctly is the better alternative. Im trying.

I also have an awesome vitamin C supplement that contains L-Lysine, magnesium and calcium, and I have spirulina & chlorella from onnit that is awesome.

 

[3rdI]

morning endlessness,

I take a multi vitamin with some extra vit c, I have found that it makes me feel better if I add them to a healthy life style. It could well be a placebo effect but I always feel better when I take them.

Personally I think if you have a proper balanced diet, there isn't generally much need for supplementation

I always thought this to be true as well and im sure its possible but I recently saw a JRE where he had a nutritional expert on and she said that the average American diet didn't provide all the necessary goodness and that supplementation was needed for most.

I think its this one

I have no idea what the average diet consists of but with the obesity rates that they have over the pond im pretty sure the average diet may not be to good:lol:

 

[Ufostrahlen]

This is a debatable statement:

Plant sources for omega 3 such as hemp oil only contain ALA which have a very poor rate of conversion into DHA, one of the more usable forms of omega 3.

Prog Lipid Res. 2009 Nov;48(6):355-74. doi: 10.1016/j.plipres.2009.07.002. Epub 2009 Jul 18.
Alpha-linolenic acid and its conversion to longer chain n-3 fatty acids: benefits for human health and a role in maintaining tissue n-3 fatty acid levels.

6. Conclusion
Thus, in this review we demonstrate significant evidence to conclude that dietary ALA is rapidly accumulated in different compartments despite the fact that a certain percentage of this fatty acid, as is the case of many fatty acids, is subjected to b-oxidation. Upon entering tissues, ALA is the substrate of the elongation and desaturation enzymatic machinery in a tissue-dependent manner, leading to the synthesis of longer chain fatty acids as EPA, DPA and, in certain tissues, of DHA. Taking into account the estimated values for DHA daily requirement and considering the kinetic values of ALA and DHA half-life, we propose that dietary ALA is able to fulfill the requirement for DHA. In addition, there are a relatively high number of in vitro and animal studies, which have been generally underappreciated, showing that ALA exerts identical effects as does DHA in a number of different physiological paradigms, although in most cases, longer treatments or higher concentrations of ALA are needed as compared to when dietary DHA is consumed. Hence, these results suggest that ALA may in many cases use an identical mechanismas DHA to exert its action, while in other cases its effect is through its conversion to DHA. In the end, based upon kinetic evidence, dietary studies with ALA, and human studies, the conversion of ALA to DHA by the liver and other specific DHA requiring tissues such as the brain, will provide ample DHA when sufficient ALA (>1200 mg) is consumed.

Dietary substitution with an alpha-linolenic acid-rich vegetable oil increases eicosapentaenoic acid concentrations in tissues.

Thirty healthy male volunteers were randomly allocated into two dietary treatment groups. The flaxseed group (n = 15) maintained a diet high in alpha-linolenic acid (alpha-LA; 18:3n-3) and low in linoleic acid (LA; 18:2n-6) by using a flaxseed oil and spread that are high in alpha-LA. The control group (n = 15) maintained a diet high in LA and low in alpha-LA, typifying a Western diet. Both groups maintained their diets for 4 wk, followed by another 4-wk period in which they supplemented the diets with fish oil [1.62 g eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA, 20:5n-3) daily and 1.08 g docosahexaenoic acid (DHA, 22:6n-3) daily] in a triglyceride form. The flaxseed oil-containing diet resulted in significant increases in alpha-LA concentrations in the plasma phospholipid, cholesteryl ester, and triglyceride fractions (eightfold increase) and neutrophil phospholipids (50% increase). EPA concentrations increased by 2.5-fold in the plasma lipid fractions and neutrophil phospholipids. After fish-oil supplementation EPA concentrations increased in parallel in both dietary groups, remaining higher in the flaxseed group for both the plasma lipid fractions and neutrophil phospholipids. The results indicate that alpha-LA-rich vegetable oils can be used in a domestic setting (in conjunction with a background diet low in LA) to elevate EPA in tissues to concentrations comparable with those associated with fish-oil supplementation.

 

[Ufostrahlen]

Ooof, I learned about the krill oil prices... Why not take regular (salmon) fish oil? Costs a fraction and provides the same DHA/EPA quantities. Or dig into flaxseed oil - if 1200mg ALA is sufficient, as the study suggests, 3-5g/d of flaxseed oil should do it.

Edit: Other sources suggest 1-2 tablespoons (14-28g) of flaxseed oil per day.

Krill Oil vs. Fish Oil:

* Stine Ulven u. a.: Metabolic Effects of Krill Oil are Essentially Similar to Those of Fish Oil but at Lower Dose of EPA and DHA, in Healthy Volunteers. In: Lipids. 46, Nr. 1, 2011, S. 37–46, doi:10.1007/s11745-010-3490-4.

* Scientific Opinion on the substantiation of a health claim related to OptiEFAX™ and maintenance of normal blood concentrations of triglycerides pursuant to Article 13(5) of Regulation (EC) No 1924/2006, EFSA Journal, 2012, doi:10.2903/j.efsa.2012.2804

 

[obliguhl]

Thanks Ufostrahlen, that is interesting to hear.
I recently started with DHA/EPA Supplementation because of the supposedly bad conversion from ALA to DHA.

Not sure how credible this article but it appears that ALA coversion depends on genetics, sex and health status. So how do you know if your body is good enough at converting ALA ? I find it also troubling, that a bad omega-6 to omega-3 ratio is also bad for ALA conversion.

30g flaxseed oil is no small amount if you want to stay in shape. At least not if you add it on top of your regular diet.

Currently taking algae oil, but a 750mg DHA/EPA dose costs 1$, which is a bit too much.
I see no reason why krill oil is better than algae oil since fish and krill are getting their DHA/EPA from algae.

What i might do is to bring down my algae oil dosage down to 1 capsule a day and use more flax seeds (oil) instead.

 

[endlessness]

Ufostrahlen, thanks for the links. I will take a deeper look at them later. There are other papers out there which I can quote later, that show the ALA conversion being poor as well as certain health benefits being present only with DHA and not ALA, hence that statement. Im happy to look at further information regarding this though

Regarding why krill oil vs fish oil, my choice has been a mix of factors. First, bioavailability: The first of your links in the last post shows krill oil is more readily bioavailable.. In lower consumed amounts of EPA/DHA krill oil will show the same raise in omega levels as fish . Another reason is that, from the small research I was doing, it seems more sustainable than salmon or other fish which are not bottom feeders and/or MSC certified, as well as being very closely watched in general. Lastly I have been reading a potential issue with oxidative damage in fish oil and the astaxanthin in krill oil appears to be a significant plus.

Regarding algae oil, obli, it definitely sounds interesting, though yeah even more expensive. I also wonder the bioavailability of it. But getting the omegas from algae does call my attention, I will definitely look into it. I´m just trying to juggle with all the factors that weigh in here, such as sustainability, price, bioavailability, health benefits and dangers, suffering impacted on other lifeforms, etc, so Im very open to alternatives and suggestions.

 

[obliguhl]

Acute appearance of fatty acids in human plasma – a comparative study between polar-lipid rich oil from the microalgae Nannochloropsis oculata and krill oil in healthy young males - Lipids in Health and Disease

Background The long-chain n-3 fatty acids eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) have human health benefits. Alternatives to fish as sources of EPA and DHA are needed. Oil from the micro-algae Nannochloropsis oculata contains a significant amount of EPA conjugated to...

www.lipidworld.com

This study suggests, that algae oil has a slight edge when it comes to bioavailability over krill oil. As far as prices go, i noticed that you really have to be careful. Some manufacturers just put something like "contains xyzg of omega-3 oil" while the DHA/EPA concentration matters.

 

[Ufostrahlen]

Gern geschehen obliguhl. The whole omega3 (or supplement) topic is complex and contains a lot of debatable claims. I would look into studies from 2010 on.

If you want to save some money, go to Aldi and buy the fish oil capsules there. They last at least a month, contain sufficient quantities and their price is unbeatable. The capsules come in pharmaceutical quality (no heavy metals) for 3EUR. I sometimes exchange them with my flaxseed oil intake because of the controversy about the conversion rates. Best flaxseed oil I found is from Schneekoppe which I buy at Real for ~ 2EUR.

Even though I'm a 95% proof vegetarian, I don't bother taking fish oil, because it is essentially distilled and filtrated fish waste. Nobody kills fish for fish oil, that would be way too expensive: GEA – engineering for a better world 1$ per serving would ruin me financially in no time.

There's a similar debate about creatine production in vegetarians. Some say you don't need it. But when you train and take creatine regularly, you certainly feel the difference. The only downside of creatine is the massive water absortion in the body, you need to drink at least 2l a day. And sometimes I feel kind of dizzy when taking creatine on an empty stomach, it gives the body an artificial/chemical feeling. Therefore I only take it after training sessions, but not on a daily basis.

In winter, my supplement intake additionally comprises of 30mg of zinc, 225mg of time released Vitamin C and 5,000 IU - 10,000 IU of Vitamin D per day. Hadn't had a cold in the whole winter time.

But yeah, there's a Vitamin D controversy, too. I don't care, the NOW Foods Vitamin D-3 Liquid Bottle costs £7.94, isn't toxic and lasts the whole winter time. Always compare prices and quality, supplementing yourself with 10,000 IU of Vitamin D from a German pharmacy costs you an arm and a leg.

Btw, funny video with Abram Hoffer (LSD pioneer) about his supplement intake:

[YOUTUBE]

 

[Ufostrahlen]

endlessness, the topic is crazy. I dug into it some time ago, because of my (95%) vegetarian diet. But I came to the conclusion, that pharmaceutical fish oil is just filtrated fish waste, where the fish industry makes an extra buck on the inevitable waste. I spend ~ 4-5EUR per month on omega3 fatty acids and I don't think that I'm undersupplied or buy bad quality, my capsules are enriched with Vitamin E, so no oxidative damage can happen.

Good luck searching through the papers. A distilled and recent version of the topic is much appreciated.

 

[joedirt]

I eat a predominantly plant based diet.
I take a multivitamin about once a week.
I take vitamin d (4000-10000) a couple of times a week.
I will eat fish about 1-2 month.

Anytime I enjoy a few beers or other spirits I take a B multivitmain the next day.
I juice several times a week and do a short 3-4 day juice fast a 3-4 times a year.

My thoughts on vitamins are this. Yes we can get everything we need from our food to be healthy, but just like a plant in good soil can benefit from the appropriate fertilizer at the right time so can we...only we fertilize our selves with vitamins.

I used to take a one a day every day, but then I started thinking about it. Are the concentrations they provide really optimal for me? What is optimal? Personally I think optimal is different sources on different day's. You don't need all your vitmains at one time every day. We need variety and diversity in diet. Some nutrients block out other nutrients from absorption when taken together...thus better to split them up.

Also I believe that diet effects absorption. I believe more alkaline diets like vegans/vegetarians allow for more nutrient absorption. Acid forming foods and substances seem to 'scar' the stomach lining and block absorption of key nutrients. This is just speculation on my part, but I know I can take things like GABA and feel them for sure while the science say's they aren't absorbed..

Also I find fish oil is very stimulating to me.
I actually don't like to take the pills and I will only eat salmon for lunch as having it to late effects my ability to fall asleep...

My primary advice to others on diet is test it for yourself. Cut something out for 30 day's and then add it back..or try something for 30 day's and then cut it out. We all have slightly different biochemistries and trying to tailor the perfect diet for an individual based on dietary science publications doesn't seem to be the most advantageous..

Just my thoughts...
Peace

 

[endlessness]

Good points

Portobello and other mushrooms create a large amount of vitamin d when exposed to uv-b rays. One could theoretically get a uv light and use it on mushrooms or expose them to the sun and eat them for extra boost of vitamin d. It´s in d2 form though, but still good thing.

I´m pretty happy with my sun exposure, but if I lived further north or too south, I´d also supplement with vitamin d.

Joedirt, you`re totally right about your observations on the complexity of diet, and antinutrients vs absorption enhancing, etc. I think it´s a fascinating subject.

I also think the best is to have in mind the available data, but experiment with oneself and find what works best, changing specific variables and being attentive to changes. Though its very important to have in mind that `feeling good` does not necessarily correlate with internal benefit or damage, we don`t have senses for everything going inside our bodies and have been known to be mistaken

 

[SpartanII]

I take concentrated, dehydrated fruit/vegetable and "Superfood" powders that are supposedly the equivalent of 7-30 servings of fruits and vegetables per 8 gram scoop.

It's raw and organic and saves me the trouble of washing, preparing and keeping perishable produce. They also contain omega fatty acids from hemp seed, enzymes, pro and pre-biotic beneficial bacteria.:thumb_up:

I take this daily but sometimes alternate it with a food-based vitamin or fruit smoothie regimen.

I also take black seed oil, coconut oil, and turmeric/black pepper for their numerous health benefits.

If you want to get the most benefit from vitamins, I highly recommend taking a food based vitamin. They are supposed to be way more bio-available and since they are made from food you can take they on an empty stomach.

I judge a vitamin by the way it smells. If it smells chemically and/or dull, I stay away. But if it smells sweet and spicy and pungent, it's probably food-based and high-quality.

I personally like MegaFood and New Chapter vitamins.

 

[Aegle]

Endlessness

Thank you for this fascinating thread... some I would suggest:

Yerba Mate
Green Tea
Cacao Beans
Spirulina Powder
Lucuma Powder
Reishi Tea
Hemp Powder
Sutherlandia
Ashwagandha
Chia Seeds
Flax Seed

Balanced with a healthy diet of lots of fresh fruit, vegetables, nuts, raw organic cows milk, free range eggs from happy chickens, honey, smoothies in the morning, a variety of local cheeses and yogurt with fresh berries. I try to source as much of my food as possible from small local organic farms. Even though I am vegetarian and have been for 16 years if one of my friends catches a fish or I catch a fish I will eat it. I have never had the ability or courage to kill any fish that I have caught though. I don't think I truly have it in me or the ability to kill anything intentionally, which I do feel bad and have an internal conflict about eating a creature that I am unable to kill myself.

Its all about what works for you personally, I guess everyone has their own personal balance and equilibrium.


Much Peace and Kindness

 

[anrchy]

I take concentrated, dehydrated fruit/vegetable and "Superfood" powders that are supposedly the equivalent of 7-30 servings of fruits and vegetables per 8 gram scoop.


I personally like MegaFood and New Chapter vitamins.

What super food powders do you recommend. I currently take rainbow vibrance and love it. I believe it is basically the same thing you are talking about but only about 4 servings per scoop. At around $36 for a 15 day it gets quite expensive.

 

[SpartanII]

anrchy:

http://amazinggrass.com/product/68/ORAC-Green-SuperFood-100-servings.html

I get it from Amazon at about $50 per 100 serving jar.

 

[Wax]

I try out lots of different herbs/supplements but my daily routine is:

2 high DHA fish oils
1/4-2/4 serving of a good multi (serving is 4 caps)
Magnesium
I use 1000mg C, B-complex, and liver formula a few days a week as well.

and I cycle between
500-2000 iu D3 + 100-400mcg K2 (mk-4) and 100mcg K2 (mk-7)

I take all my supplements with a spoonful of coconut oil, eat at least 2 tbs. freshly ground flax everyday, and put nutritional yeast or turmeric/ black pepper on anything I can get them on. Kefir is constantly being made as well.

I also usually take at least a day a week off of all supplements besides the fish oil and the flax. I would like to try taking a day off of all food once a week.

 

[Cognitive Heart]

I also take black seed oil, coconut oil, and turmeric/black pepper for their numerous health benefits.
As do I! Very nourishing with health promoting capabilities. I also add some olive oil to the turmeric and black pepper to aid in the absorbing process. Much water too so all of the above can move and process efficiently. And yes, pro-prebiotics are very nourishing as well!

That is my usual health insurance regimine. I also enjoy preparing meals that cover all of the basic nutrients required for energy and longevity. It seems right to get all of your nutrients from real, organic/raw/non-gmo or local food. Supplements are good but aren't always efficient at being fully absorbed. Our bodies evolved to eat, not to drop capsules in our stomachs.

I'd also like to raise the profound difference it makes when you encounter psychedelic states abiding by a healthy lifestyle. The experience can be incredibly much greater in terms of vision and accomplishment.

Stay healthy, y'all!

:thumb_up:

 

[indydude19]

I consume methyl -B12, lutein for my eyes because I hate vegies, n-actyl-cysteine helps brain and immune system health, and this nutrastem supplement that supposedly supports stem cell production that's good for work out recovery. I have only found good reviews and supportive studies for it so far. I take then each 3-4 times a week. Sometime the nutrastem more when I'm really active.I also consume whey protein shakes a couple times a day

I eat fish about 5 times a week and try to have a well rounded diet though with my recent increase In physical activity I need to get a multivitamin.