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T. Terscheckii

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navegandouniversos

Esteemed member
Hello friends

After a few days away, I returned to the T. Terschekii project and had a pleasant surprise, salting with fumaric acid, automatically crashed and precipitated divine needles, and on the walls of the jar were left to see some white balls. After a few days, it was time to collect the material, and to my surprise, once I removed the EA, what was left in the filter and inside the glass jar, joined and formed only one material, with the appearance of wet flour, whitish color, barely amber.

Once the material dried, the color became much clearer. I just tasted its flavor and without any doubt it is the precious alkaloids ( having perceived that before at the time of salting, the reaction was like with another cacti, pure precious clouds ).

The extraction yield was 3% (100 g dried cactus - 3 g fine powder), I will make a new extraction this week to record with photos.

I estimate that the methylated mescaline and mescaline came together forming this reaction mentioned, I don't really understand much chemistry, but, with the cards on the table that is what occurs to me....

hmmmm, would it be possible to separate them ? maybe in a filter by washing with fresh ipa and then evaporating the ipa to collect the methylated mescaline ?

Big Hugs 😁
 
Thanks for the report. Whas this simply a CIELO process? Did you do a fridge rest before salting?

Ideally we should have the powder analyzed. Endlessness may be able to help?

I don't know how to separate them. You can try with IPA, see if the methylated mescaline candidate stays in the freezer cold IPA solution as mescaline crashes.
 
yes, was an CIELO process, 24 hs on fridge before salting.

unfortunelly i can't make an analyze, but yes, I´ll try with IPA today and see what happen.

Thanks so much :thumb_up:
 
Great. To summarize the situation:

T. Terscheckii is believed to have 3 main alkaloids at roughly the same ratio:

- Mescaline: Known to be active beginning at 100mg and strong at 1000mg
- N-Methyl Mescaline (NMM): tested to be inactive alone at 25mg.
- N,N-Dimethyl Mescaline (DMM): tested to be inactive alone at 500mg. Also called Trichocerine.

This info is pieced together from this PiHKAL entry and this thread. Notice the thread has a paper (first attachment) with mass spec results for these 3 compounds from Terscheckii (we will assume for now the paper mistakenly identified N-methyl mescaline as alfa-methyl mescaline).

I suggest we give N-methyl mescaline candidate the name NMM. Also to call trichocerine simply DMM. Note that NMM has been found in peyote at bout 4 times lower concentration than mescaline (second attached paper).

With this work from our friend from Argentina we can try to understand Terscheckii better. For example:

- What is isolated from terscheckii with CIELO salted with fumaric? If more than mescaline, is there a way to separate the different compounds? Note that we are expecting more than one compound because of the behavior when salting with citric.
- Is there an entourage effect for mescaline, NMT, DMT? A simple test of the fumarate product at 500mg could tell us.
- Does NMT become active beyond 25mg?

Looking forward to what we can learn about Terscheckii, a sacred plant used traditionally in Argentina/Bolivia. A grandpa in heaven?
 

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I suggest we give N-methyl mescaline candidate the name NMM. Also to call trichocerine simply DMM.
perfect, okay


- What is isolated from terscheckii with CIELO salted with fumaric? If more than mescaline, is there a way to separate the different compounds? Note that we are expecting more than one compound because of the behavior when salting with citric.
- Is there an entourage effect for mescaline, NMT, DMT? A simple test of the fumarate product at 500mg could tell us.
- Does NMT become active beyond 25mg?

I'll take 500mg and report about.

Without having a scientific study that certifies it, I feel that if there is a drying effect, by the difference of effect that I could feel taking different types of extractions (aqueous, or alcoholic for example), comparing with other cactus species of the genus ... but it is something to analyze in depth of course.

And I will also move to get the corresponding analysis done, I am very curious about the result !

thanks for the information and let's see what happen !!
 
navegandouniversos said:
Well, interestingly, there was no separation when using cold IPA. Everything remains the same

Interesting, wonder what happens with hot IPA next.

As for the dose, since I believe you have been working with your Terscheckii and know it, I would say ratio the 3g of product to the ammount of plant you would take vs. extracted. Make sense?

The point of developing CIELO was harm reduction, so people who do not know the very variable plants can easily get a proper measured dose. In your case, we are doing it the other way around since your powder is 1st of its kind in the history of the world I believe and you know the plant.
 
I am also curious, then I will comment what happens, since it is heating IPA now, and I separated a small amount of powder.

Well, regarding what you mention about the dosage of extract in relation to the plant, I completely agree, and I consider that to have a complete experience what I should do is to start with 1500 mg, equivalent to 50g of plant, which with this specimen is really something potent. but, well I have never consumed it in this way... so that also generated me some intrigue to feel the effect with a very low dose (the 500mg mentioned) ... anyway. that is something that when I am to do it I will see it clearly and it will be in the next few days clearly ...

Sincerely, I am amazed with the process CIELO, and again I thank you deeply my friend.
 
Here we seem to have something

There was reaction with hot ipa, the powder did not dissolve at any time, but, ipa took a milky coloration ( as if it had mixed with water ) , and the powder remained at the bottom of the container when I stopped stirring it, then, I passed it through a fine filter to collect it, and the IPA once at room temperature, went into the refrigerator, and then into the freezer . .

I noticed a slight change in the coloration of the powder, it is now completely white, and there was a decrease in the weight of the powder. The initial 600 mg reduced to 430 mg (maybe it lost water or excess acid or what?!???) what a curiosity!
 
navegandouniversos said:
Here we seem to have something

There was reaction with hot ipa, the powder did not dissolve at any time, but, ipa took a milky coloration ( as if it had mixed with water ) , and the powder remained at the bottom of the container when I stopped stirring it, then, I passed it through a fine filter to collect it, and the IPA once at room temperature, went into the refrigerator, and then into the freezer . .

I noticed a slight change in the coloration of the powder, it is now completely white, and there was a decrease in the weight of the powder. The initial 600 mg reduced to 430 mg (maybe it lost water or excess acid or what?!???) what a curiosity!


But some product could still precipitate in the freezer, right?
 
Could it be excess fumaric acid? And or fumaric plus other alkaloids?

What are the tastes of the ipa leftover goo and the white filtered powder?
 
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