skelly0311
Rising Star
Has anyone tried simply substituting toluene with EA, then salting with benzoic acid? any reason to think that approach wouldn't work. It'd definitely be easier and less time consuming, which is why I ask.
-
Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).
TEK: Smoking Mescaline(-Benzoate)
- Thread starter Brennendes Wasser
- Start date
I too feel that the stuff inside of the cactus extraction further heavily increases the solubility of (at least) Mescaline Benzoate. So no idea what this stuff is, as it is all left behind in the elegant CIELO step, but seems it cannot be transferred to other solvents / acid combinations 
(
Even when you use a concentration similar to what I used with a pure material - but instead with the Toluene directly from extraction - then no precipitation is seen. Something inside which comes along with the mescaline makes Mescaline Benzoate much more soluble and stops it from precipitation.
I tried Limonene, which should work even better. But no precipitation.
I tried boiling Heptane, which I guess should dissolve Mescaline above its melting point (melting it into a potentially mixable goo) at 45 °C (I think I read sth like that), but this yielded also no crystals.
Still just as a sidenote here you can extract from Cactus Paste (needs to be more dry than CIELO paste) with boiling Heptane and then something will form clouds in the freezer. Would be super cool if Mescaline would be soluble in boiling Naphtha (would make sense, same effect like Bufotenine in boiling Xylene) and then be dropped out as Freebase in the freezer. Not much will be dissolved along the way, so I hoped this would not get all the stuff into the extraction liquid, that stop other Mescaline salts from precipitating in Toluene/Limonene. But sadly first results were not too meaningfull and now my big cactus is gone :thumb_dow :lol: :lol:
To me it seems like Mescaline + Citric Acid in EA seems the only viable way so far, as this will drop it 100 % due to the insolubility of Citric Acid in EA - quite determining also the overall solubility of the salt. Because of that Mescaline Benzoate does not work with EA, because Benzoic Acid has a super high solubility here. Solubility of Benzoic Acid in Limonene is still something like 3-4 g / 100 ml. Also not low.
Just Benzoic Acid in Heptane is just ~ 0,7 g / 100 ml and I hoped this could be a cool alternative:
(1. Defat dry basified cactus powder with cold Naphtha to remove fats)
2. Extract dry basified cactus powder with boiling Naphtha to dissolve only Mescaline-like Alkaoids, leaving behind R-OH type alkaloids + chlorophyll (which potentially increases Mescaline salt solubility)
3. Bring your Naphtha again to a boil and dissolve 2 g Benzoic Acid per 100 g Cactus Powder, place in Freezer
But at least it gave just clouds and no crystals, so that was also tossed for now ...
I even tried to overcome the high Mescaline-Benzoate solubility by crashing it out forcefully with super-excess benzoic acid, that will even precipitate lots of Benzoic Acid itself. But then no idea how to separate that stuff, as you have little product with lots of impurity instead of the regular opposite case.
So in other words so far I see no combination of solvent + acid + whatever that will directly drop a directly smokable salt
(Even when you use a concentration similar to what I used with a pure material - but instead with the Toluene directly from extraction - then no precipitation is seen. Something inside which comes along with the mescaline makes Mescaline Benzoate much more soluble and stops it from precipitation.
I tried Limonene, which should work even better. But no precipitation.
I tried boiling Heptane, which I guess should dissolve Mescaline above its melting point (melting it into a potentially mixable goo) at 45 °C (I think I read sth like that), but this yielded also no crystals.
Still just as a sidenote here you can extract from Cactus Paste (needs to be more dry than CIELO paste) with boiling Heptane and then something will form clouds in the freezer. Would be super cool if Mescaline would be soluble in boiling Naphtha (would make sense, same effect like Bufotenine in boiling Xylene) and then be dropped out as Freebase in the freezer. Not much will be dissolved along the way, so I hoped this would not get all the stuff into the extraction liquid, that stop other Mescaline salts from precipitating in Toluene/Limonene. But sadly first results were not too meaningfull and now my big cactus is gone :thumb_dow :lol: :lol:
To me it seems like Mescaline + Citric Acid in EA seems the only viable way so far, as this will drop it 100 % due to the insolubility of Citric Acid in EA - quite determining also the overall solubility of the salt. Because of that Mescaline Benzoate does not work with EA, because Benzoic Acid has a super high solubility here. Solubility of Benzoic Acid in Limonene is still something like 3-4 g / 100 ml. Also not low.
Just Benzoic Acid in Heptane is just ~ 0,7 g / 100 ml and I hoped this could be a cool alternative:
(1. Defat dry basified cactus powder with cold Naphtha to remove fats)
2. Extract dry basified cactus powder with boiling Naphtha to dissolve only Mescaline-like Alkaoids, leaving behind R-OH type alkaloids + chlorophyll (which potentially increases Mescaline salt solubility)
3. Bring your Naphtha again to a boil and dissolve 2 g Benzoic Acid per 100 g Cactus Powder, place in Freezer
But at least it gave just clouds and no crystals, so that was also tossed for now ...
I even tried to overcome the high Mescaline-Benzoate solubility by crashing it out forcefully with super-excess benzoic acid, that will even precipitate lots of Benzoic Acid itself. But then no idea how to separate that stuff, as you have little product with lots of impurity instead of the regular opposite case.
So in other words so far I see no combination of solvent + acid + whatever that will directly drop a directly smokable salt
Thanks, BW, this agrees with my observations where crashing mescaline benzoate directly from limo or toluene is problematic.
How about pulling toluene with benzoic acid until water is neutral, then drying that? Would the partition coefficient be bad?
How about pulling toluene with benzoic acid until water is neutral, then drying that? Would the partition coefficient be bad?
I think this way it would work pretty effectively - just the other way around it might need more pulls, regarding Freebase M from water into toluene, because of low to moderate solublility in water.
Then of course evaporation of water would be a little annoying and also you would end up with the excess of benzoic acid. But using less than 1 EQ of benzoic acid would help then, even though not getting all the alkaloids and also hard to judge as alkaloid content would probably be unknown?
But then there s a problem where I believe would be a dead-end. While the salting in a NPS like CA in EA works super great to separate the Alkaloids, it is not totally comparable with a extraction of CA (or Benzoic Acid) in water. Reason is when salting like in CIELO it will separate everything that is 1.) Able to react as a base 2.) very insoluble in that medium so it will form crystals.
But when making a water wash with any acid like Benzoic or Citric it might also pass over anything where only 1.) applies, and not both. So for example Mescaline + Benzoic Acid will fulfill 1.) but not 2.). Still if you would extract with Benzoic Acid + Water, it will still pass benzoic acid over. Obviously we would like that, but there could be other stuff which reacts the same way. Chlorophyll for example could act as a base, but will not precipitate. Not sure if it would be even water soluble in that state, but other stuff might be. So that's why even after evaporation I guess some other plant stuff will be transfered over, which is otherwise left behind upon salting in NPS :// So the CA + EA combination seems quite like a niche technology.
Still, what could be done is alternating it then to a similar way like 69ron did that original TEK:
Extract Mescaline with Limonene
Extract from Limonene with Water + Benzoic Acid
Evaporate to same crude product
But now you are stuck with excess Benzoic Acid, while Acetic would evaporate ... re-x in Limonene might help a little.
But as we all said in the beginning, all that hassle would be only worth if it's indeed the goal to get something directly smokable, and then probably 100+ will be needed for a desirable effect. I just threw all that stuff from the Water-Content-Test together to make some Benzoate, but from the already low amounts lost more than 50 % along the way. So I guess I will not have more to finally get to a truly psychedelic effect
:thumb_dow
First post is re-written now to a TEK.
Why can Mescaline Benzoate be smoked?
How to convert Mescaline Citrate to Mescaline Benzoate?
Trip-Report ...
Conclusion
Why can Mescaline Benzoate be smoked?
How to convert Mescaline Citrate to Mescaline Benzoate?
Trip-Report ...
Conclusion
Brennendes Wasser said:
Wow, great report!
I wonder if it could be used in a vape, dissolved in ejuice on top of the oral experience. Vape is convenient and pethaps not much would be needed since effects would already be there from the oral administration.
I guess would work well! Have never used any E-Liquid device, so would it be a downside if you still need to hold the vapor like 10+ seconds? I normally would imagine that is what you do with oil/concentrate vapes, but would there be any downside of holding also the PG/VG that long?
It obviously works as you also got great results with your HIELO TEK. So if I remember it was a little gentle, that you will not get a DMT Rocketshoot that way. But then if still a good dosage of DMT is possible, that could surely also work for a mescaline enhancement.
When used with a liquid, it would mean that also no over-roasting like in concentrate-vape methods like my Banger ... Maybe also the higher solubility of the Mescaline salts would help to make it more concentrated. DMT Citrate would probably have a way lower concentration, but upon conversion to Benzoate some might get lost and so maybe that would also be a downside ... :thumb_dow
It obviously works as you also got great results with your HIELO TEK. So if I remember it was a little gentle, that you will not get a DMT Rocketshoot that way. But then if still a good dosage of DMT is possible, that could surely also work for a mescaline enhancement.
When used with a liquid, it would mean that also no over-roasting like in concentrate-vape methods like my Banger ... Maybe also the higher solubility of the Mescaline salts would help to make it more concentrated. DMT Citrate would probably have a way lower concentration, but upon conversion to Benzoate some might get lost and so maybe that would also be a downside ... :thumb_dow
downwardsfromzero
Boundary condition
Thanks for the update, BW!
You've set me thinking: As long as the saturated vapour pressure of a substance is not reached from its concentration in the surrounding air, it will tend to evaporate. It seems likely that the formation of aerosol particles serves to drive the volatilisation further since it effectively reduces the partial vapour pressure of the evaporated material below the saturation value.
You've set me thinking: As long as the saturated vapour pressure of a substance is not reached from its concentration in the surrounding air, it will tend to evaporate. It seems likely that the formation of aerosol particles serves to drive the volatilisation further since it effectively reduces the partial vapour pressure of the evaporated material below the saturation value.
Brennendes Wasser said:
PG/VG droplets all deposit in the lungs after about 15 seconds. Mescaline benzoate is so soluble that high concentration should be doable. It is a salt so it should be gentle on the lungs as am aerosol.
Sounds like that might work then. But I think you made some tests with E-Juice already, was it not that strong? Or did it still give a good effect somehow?
A nebulizing machine would be cool, this should get super high concentrations and you might just freeze the tank for inifnite storage. But I think the Vape industry never cared to create something like this for amusement purposes.
A nebulizing machine would be cool, this should get super high concentrations and you might just freeze the tank for inifnite storage. But I think the Vape industry never cared to create something like this for amusement purposes.