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Thank God for Forgetfulness

Migrated topic.
wow brother....just....wow... i relate to you in a way that i cannot express in words. i know PRECISELY what you speak of in terms of 'reality-affirming' breakthroughs and i have had many like you describe where the emotionlessness is palpable.

makes one wonder exactly what emotions are....at least in our physical reality....

brilliant report. i had a stalagtite of drool hanging off my gaping mouth the entire time i was reading... :shock:

LOVE AND GRATITUDE!!
 
The thing that I have trouble with is just thinking to myself there is no way I am ever going to understand this or be able to go on with my life, reaching for someone to share about what happened, but cannot be conveyed through language. It all dissolves back into reality and is forgotten. When I go that deep I will understand more of what those of you have seen.
 
Excellent thread! It sometimes has seemed to me that not only might one go "there", but sometimes "It" shows up here. "Reality affirming" is a good description.
 
gibran2 said:
As I was witnessing these things, I thought “Having seen what I’ve seen, there’s no way I’ll ever be able to return without going completely insane.” There were moments where I was convinced that I had gone too far, and that I wouldn’t be going back.

At one point I felt like I had breached the boundary between our everyday reality and the reality I was in. I felt that there was no going back because there was nothing to go back to – reality had been consumed.
Click to expand...

Had the same type of experience last night, especially the 'how can I be sane again after seeing this', and also wondering whether 'normal reality' was even there to go back to any more, whether I'd gone too far.

Old thread but such a wonderful report, man. :) Thanks.
 
It is true what I thought. So many of you are confirming it.

What I thought was: "Aren't the things DMT have showed me actually disturbing inner peace? "


I came there looking for answers. Answers that could possibly give me more understanding of the true nature of this
reality. Asnwers we've all gotten: Answers we can completely not comprehend. Answers that are pretty much useless and in the end bring more questions in return.

I found this to be true for all psychedelics. Sometimes they've given me some deep insight into my own psyche. And into the general psyche of the human being. But ultimately they've raised more philosphical questions than they've answered.
I've long seen Psychedelics as invaluable tools of healing, but more and more...I'm not so sure anymore.



I've witnessed the same icecold, mechanical thing that has been mentioned here countless times. It horrified me.
Much more so than the obviously evil entities: They were still recognisable as vaguely reminiscent of terrestrial beings. They had a soul and an intent( even if it was a malicious soul & intent), but this cold, alien, gigantic being has no soul at all. No emotions. No intentions.

Though my mind was open to it and thought "let's not judge this being", my heart fiercely rejected it.
I could not relate in any way to this being. I could not accept the existance of this being on an emotional level.
Not at all.


The problem with me is: I didn't forget half as much as you did, Gibran. And you too know I wish I did.
Too much sticks with me and I must admit: it's making my life very difficult to live, emotionally.

I'm having the hardest time enjoying mundane experiences like going out to dance, socialising, jamming...etc
I'm filled with a sense of futility. That it's all so purposeless and devoid of true meaning. Because I saw things that show how much of a joke, an illusion this entire reality is. I cannot remember it on a cognitive level, but the emotional aspect of the memory stuck. I feel doomed to suffer the rest of my life in boredom, claustrophobia and depression. I genuinely wonder if I can get out of this dreadfull state ever again. I'm sure as hell going to try.

More and more I'm starting to guess this is the result of my Psychedelic experiences, most notably those on DMT.
 
SKA said:
It is true what I thought. So many of you are confirming it.

What I thought was: "Aren't the things DMT have showed me actually disturbing inner peace? "


I came there looking for answers. Answers that could possibly give me more understanding of the true nature of this
reality. Asnwers we've all gotten: Answers we can completely not comprehend. Answers that are pretty much useless and in the end bring more questions in return.

I found this to be true for all psychedelics. Sometimes they've given me some deep insight into my own psyche. And into the general psyche of the human being. But ultimately they've raised more philosphical questions than they've answered.
I've long seen Psychedelics as invaluable tools of healing, but more and more...I'm not so sure anymore.



I've witnessed the same icecold, mechanical thing that has been mentioned here countless times. It horrified me.
Much more so than the obviously evil entities: They were still recognisable as vaguely reminiscent of terrestrial beings. They had a soul and an intent( even if it was a malicious soul & intent), but this cold, alien, gigantic being has no soul at all. No emotions. No intentions.

Though my mind was open to it and thought "let's not judge this being", my heart fiercely rejected it.
I could not relate in any way to this being. I could not accept the existance of this being on an emotional level.
Not at all.


The problem with me is: I didn't forget half as much as you did, Gibran. And you too know I wish I did.
Too much sticks with me and I must admit: it's making my life very difficult to live, emotionally.

I'm having the hardest time enjoying mundane experiences like going out to dance, socialising, jamming...etc
I'm filled with a sense of futility. That it's all so purposeless and devoid of true meaning. Because I saw things that show how much of a joke, an illusion this entire reality is. I cannot remember it on a cognitive level, but the emotional aspect of the memory stuck. I feel doomed to suffer the rest of my life in boredom, claustrophobia and depression. I genuinely wonder if I can get out of this dreadfull state ever again. I'm sure as hell going to try.

More and more I'm starting to guess this is the result of my Psychedelic experiences, most notably those on DMT.
Click to expand...
I’m sorry to hear you’re having such a difficult time right now.

Life changes, and someday when you least expect it, these difficulties will be behind you. At least that has been my experience time and time again.

The experience I described in the original post was just one of many that I’ve had over the years. I’ve had some very life-affirming experiences, some deeply sacred journeys, and one in particular that made it clear our lives here are filled with purpose. I’ve had hilarious irreverent good times, I’ve stood face to face with my “inner-self”, I’ve seen beauty so overwhelming I had to look away, I’ve laughed, cried, and felt a few non-human emotions along the way. Once I died. Many times I’ve been reborn.

The lesson learned form the experience posted here wasn’t that there is a cold indifference pervading all of existence, but rather that the human mind, the human psyche --MY psyche -- isn’t capable of understanding what really is. And that’s OK. Our time here is to learn about what is here – about what appears to be. Your deeper self already knows what really is. Everything will be revealed in its time.

I gave up expecting answers to questions very early on in my psychedelic exploration. It was clear to me that that’s not what it’s all about. I’m also not sure that it’s about healing either. The DMT experience allows us to participate in the divine mystery, and to realize that we are always and have always been participating in the divine mystery.

If you’re finding it hard to enjoy life these days, then seek out someone who can offer to help. If you believe that DMT use has led to this situation, then consider not using DMT.

Finally, never forget the important role you play in this mystery!
 
Yes I wasn't implying that this being was malicious, but indeed like you said Gibran: We aren't capable of comprehending it. I too had many inspiring and affirming experiences on DMT so I know the spice can inspire immensely.

I guess what most of us are bearing witness to is that we've went to hyperspace to seek knowledge and subsequently where given the knowledge we asked for. The problem is that we cannot comprehend it. We cannot process/understand the information we've asked for. And so in a philosophical sense it brings more confusion, instead of more clearity(which I guess most of us seek and expect from it)

But, the coldness of the alien aside, the whole experience of DMT hyperspace in combination with the mundane physical world we experience dayly....I find this to create massive confusion and dysphoria:

So now I know that beyond this physical world there is a completely different world, accessible by smoalking a molecule derrived from certain plants. I know the beings that inhabit this world can take infinite numbers of shapes and are seemingly made of what I can only describe as "Condensed Light". Some of these beings are clearly benevolent while others are unmistakably malicious.


It somehow troubles me greatly that I still fail to understand how Hyperspace is related to this physical world.
It also troubles me how most humans are completely ignorant of this realm. It troubles me knowing that all that hyperspace is there and not knowing it's purpose or it's relation to this physical world.

And the fact that many DMT experiences have been heavenly affirmations of my life's purpose only adds to that maddening mystery: Who are these beings? Why do they seem to know everything about me? Why do they live separated from the physical world? Why do I feel soooo at home amongst the benevolent ones amongst them? Why can't I stay there longer? Why can't we contact these beings in any other way than smoalking spice? Why why why?


And then the most burning why considering DMT: If we are incapable of comprehending their knowledge, then WHY is DMT; A direct portal to their world so omnipresent on this planet?


All these questions with no prospect of an answer anytime soon are driving me mad. I guess I'm suffering from a typically human affliction: Wanting to understand EVERYTHING. The humor of having that realisation actually softens my suffering :p
 
You probably know this SKA but ayahuasca is much easier to integrate IME than DMT.

As the years pass, I vaporize DMT less and less, though I still see it can be an amazing tool, a`psychedelic-shock-awakening` to partake in those rare ocasions.
 
Yes. I did Ayahuasca only once with the local Santo Daime church, but I can confirm what you say.
Indeed it was much more forgiving and grounded. A much more gentle and patient teacher.

And ultimately better at being a teacher: Most of my ayahuasca experience stuck with me in my memory. It was very clear. The same cannot at all be said about my DMT experiences :p

I haven't experienced DMT-like visuals on Santo Daime's Ayahuasca.
In fact my Ayahuasca experience was mostly unvisual, but very psychological
and emotional instead. However I reckon higher doses could induce DMT-like visions on top of that as well.

Perhaps vaporised DMT could be taken as a means of making a quick diagnose of your spiritual ills,
and then Ayahuasca could be taken to cure said ills.

Also DMT is by far the best entheogen to derrive artistic inspiration from. I'll allways charish it for that reason.


I suppose I had the wrong expectations of DMT.
 
great post gibran, and great replies too...

vaporisation of dmt does seem to give access to a greater magnitude of experiences - some it seems, giving us glimpes of realms which feel like we are not really wired to process or "meant to see". i guess whatever it is that those experiences make us feel I try and hold faith that there is ultimately reasoning behind their unveiling, which will eventually act as a seed for growth that we don't quite understand yet.. this has been my experience so far anyways, but I am young and have only been working with dmt for a few years now... more often than not in my experience I come out wishing I didn't forget but once in a while there are things I wish I could "unsee".. things that have enriched my perception, though made it somewhat more daunting at times

whenever I start to contemplate emptiness or void, and wonder whether there really is "meaning" outside of this experience, a divine reminder seems to peep its head just around the corner.. it may be that this empty, alien and seemingly void space, that we sometimes feel pushing us to question the existence of meaning outside of "this", in fact serves some sort of purpose even in our human experience. either way, if it is in fact waiting for us on the other side we will likely not be "us" to feel anything about it. I like to think that if this divine experience exist then its source must have that divine energy at its roots..

reality is deeply mysterious and seems to start "making sense" (i used the inverted commas because usually those making sense know deep down that it is much more complex than their mind could grapple) one minute, only to implode into something far from what we had imagined the next. maybe there is no real "truth" about reality because it is always expanding with our ideas. i tend to see any realm I experience now as just that.. another realm- I am sure there are many of them... and there is no point to me worrying about the source of me because it is the roots of me

also, Gibran, may i ask, does the meaning/message behind your dmt experiences differ much from your salvia experiences? or have they taken you to similar questions/conclusions just through a different scope?
 
acacian said:
...also, Gibran, may i ask, does the meaning/message behind your dmt experiences differ much from your salvia experiences? or have they taken you to similar questions/conclusions just through a different scope?
Click to expand...
For me, the DMT experience seems to be focused on the immaterial realm – a ream that lies outside of physical existence, outside of time and space and energy and matter, yet paradoxically filled with places and beings. The DMT experience is often deeply personal as well.

The salvia experience seems to be about the physical realm – the many-layered multiverse. There seem to be whole universes, sometimes very similar to our own, just a millimeter away in another spatial dimension. So close yet so far! And when there, it’s so obvious that this is the nature of reality – layer upon infinite layer of universes, stacked like pages in a book.

As I write this, I realize that simple descriptions and explanations can’t possibly do justice to the variety and complexity of these realms. Language is such a barrier!
 
Apoc said:
That mother fucker is the alpha and the omega. There is nothing beyond it (it seems). It's not a vision or a "hallucination", it becomes all of reality and you remember it is the only reality you have ever known. In that state, any question you have about reality is absurd. There is only THAT. For me, this is the farthest you can go on dmt, or anywhere. There is no going further because there is nothing else, and you can see that when you're there.

That thing is so powerful, yet so subtle and easy to forget. I've obviously "forgotten" it because I'm here typing this. I wouldn't be able to do this if I was in that hyper reality, I only have a vague sense of that all powerful thing. I actually sort of forgot about that guy after my first big dose trip. Then in my second trip, I went back to his realm, and I was like, "oh shit!! why the fuck did I come back here?" and he was like, "yeah, bitch, remember me, dumbass? What do you think you're doing coming back so soon? How could you have forgotten already?" The message I get from "God" is IT is all there is and ever was, and ever will be. Everything that has ever happened has transpired according to ITS design. My whole life from start to finish is IT, and everything I experience is only something that it allows me to see. And then you go back to that realm and remember your true nature, and you're like....... "oh my God..... I remember.... that's who I am??? THAT!? THAT?!??!?!!!! That cold mechanical alien mother fucker? That's God? That's me? I don't want that. That's hell!.... but it's going to last forever, and there is no escape, ever." And seemingly the only reason I am here is for it to experience embodiment and the limitation of being finite..... it wants to experience all levels of existence.

The encounter with that entity destroys everything you can possibly think you know. Then back here in the "real world" people ask if the alien entities are real or not.... but when you're there, it's not just real, it's ALL THAT IS. And here I was studying enlightenment teachers, who talk about a void and your true nature being no identity, an emptiness. Then I encounter this all powerful thing and it throws all that void talk down the toilet, and I'm like, "oh my God... the enlightened teachers were bullshitting me the whole time!". This ain't no void, this is right in your face all poewrful superintellegence. It does seem like an alien, it does seem like an entity. But the teachers weren't necessarily bullshitting... there's just no words to describe what I speak of.

Just when I thought I had things figured out with the void, and "the watcher", or whatever, I come across Mr. Fractal Alien Super God and find it's playing me like a puppet. Suddenly, regular boring unenlightened life seemed like such a gift compared to this hell that was my true nature. That's why in my first trip I broke down crying for my mother, and wanted regular life back, and I prayed to forget everything I knew. I also threw away my dmt after my encounter with this "entity" because it was like all of reality was a joke, why the hell would I take dmt again? Might as well go back to my regular life and appreciate the fuck out of it while it lasts, because death might be a nightmare. However, once you get back to regular life, you integrate, and realize that encountering that all powerful thing was just your next step. You've just discovered a whole new world to explore, you don't want to avoid it and be afraid of it forever. It doesn't have to be a scary thing... it's just the next thing in this utterly mysterious adventurous life. And oh yes, I still appreciate the fuck out of my regular life too. But there are many adventures to be had in this life, and more to explore than I ever thought.
Click to expand...

Well I know this same realization as well. I refer to it as the incident where the world and the substantiality of it was destroyed, leaving only the solitary witness. I was on mushrooms and had an awakening experience. After a while this tsunami of terror energy took over and I managed to get to the toilet and passed out. And I had a sense that my heart stopped for a while. I was still conscious of the inactive body and when a stream of energy started leaving from the top of my crown the ego started resisting out of fear and some of the energy returned and the body awoke. I'm not sure whether this energy was life force of the body or if it was the egoic energy.

I called my ex girlfriend and started talking in a psychotic manner about how everything has just died and there's just a ghostly image remaining. Even "my ex" was not actually there. All there was were the present sensations (a so-called voice of a so-called ex etc.) and nothing more. I was in a depersonalized/derealized state for a good couple of months until the absolute voidness and meaninglessness got any better.

I could not do much else but to keep my mind preoccupied with distractions. Finally, at one early spring afternoon, I was playing EA Skate on my xbox with shutters closed when a speck of sunlight hit the corner of my eye from between the shutter and a window frame. At that moment the dread, the void and hopelessness just disappeared and there was peace and lightness. Almost like flicking a switch. The sunlight had the quality of "goodness" to it. It's like there is light beyond this ordinary light that we see. And that light that is beyond we don't only see but it is deeply felt as well. There is a sense of deep meaningfulness to it as well, even though there is no thinking going on.

I think it was just simple surrender that happened. And it was able to take place when I stopped trying to surrender. Stopped resisting in my mind and in my being. I couldn't do it, it just eventually happened.

I still cannot unsee what has been seen and realized but I can be at peace with it. Good thing to know is that there might be a trauma behind the derealization, so that state and that derealization/depersonalization is actually causal. Derealization is not the same as enlightenment. In derealization there is still the ego in the mix even though it is not recognized to be so. And Enlightenment and awakening are not the same thing. Awakening usually refers to a glimpse which might be minutes up to months or even a year or so. Usually the awakenings happen daily for some minutes or hours. They seem to come and go, come and go... Whereas the enlightenment refers to liberation from all illusion, it's not just a glimpse beyond the veil. And I would say that the derealization/depersonalization is an aftershock of an awakening experience. The awakening glimpse might have even gone unnoticed but it has still been a catalyst for this state of profound suffering, along with the ego that is seemingly holding on.
 
gibran2 said:
acacian said:
...also, Gibran, may i ask, does the meaning/message behind your dmt experiences differ much from your salvia experiences? or have they taken you to similar questions/conclusions just through a different scope?
Click to expand...
For me, the DMT experience seems to be focused on the immaterial realm – a ream that lies outside of physical existence, outside of time and space and energy and matter, yet paradoxically filled with places and beings. The DMT experience is often deeply personal as well.

The salvia experience seems to be about the physical realm – the many-layered multiverse. There seem to be whole universes, sometimes very similar to our own, just a millimeter away in another spatial dimension. So close yet so far! And when there, it’s so obvious that this is the nature of reality – layer upon infinite layer of universes, stacked like pages in a book.

As I write this, I realize that simple descriptions and explanations can’t possibly do justice to the variety and complexity of these realms. Language is such a barrier!
Click to expand...
wow great distinction gibran. i feel like the dmt space is like the einstein/bose condensate. it is a field of potential before matter(you can see things manifest out of nothing seemingly at will, like a thought mirror. actually seems to be inside a striped toroidal dome of potential). when i first did salvia that was exactly what it felt like, seeing the multilayered multiverse, and a terribly acute sensation that i have always been there and this world here is the dream.
 
In the desire of welded lips,
Of heart on prone tumultuous heart,
Abides no stronger thing than this
Dread love that keeps our lips apart.
 
Wow, Gibran. I don't know how it is that I ever missed this thread back in the day, but I just read it all through, and I think it really represents the very best of what this place has to offer. I could relate to a great deal of your report (as is often the case), as well as to several of the responses.

It never ceases to amaze me, this thing we've all found. It's at once the most beautiful and horrifying thing I've encountered, both the most satisfying and perpetually agonizing event of my lifetime, bar none.

I'm eternally grateful for the privilege of having been allowed a glimpse behind the curtain. At the same time, the fragmented memories of certain experiences will always unnerve me.
 
That fear of seeing more than I should, more than I can handle, is probably the single most limiting aspect that keeps me from pushing farther out into the depths of this mysterious thing we call hyperspace.

Luckily, it seems the mind is very well equipped to deal with these types of things, but that fact does not curb the fear in the least.

My outlook is that it is all an adventure, and like any adventure there must be the element (or at least illusion) of risk.
 
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