burnt said:
But again I don't see how consciousness fits into any of this. Sure its possible consciousness could have some integral role in the universe that isn't obvious.
Certainly, it is never obvious when seen through our usual collection of preceptory lenses. Each lens is designed for specific transmissions of perceptual data. Yes? So the determination by which one supports the central idea that existence is consciousness, must be one which has the capacity to
SEE the inherent unification, the oneness, the
eternal light of consciousness. I suggest that this lens is the
singular eye and without it's full activation, I agree with you, it is baseless speculation. Even moreso, without this condition, it is a type of blind faith.
I do agree with your assessment here. There is nothing enlightening about blind faith. Seeing, however, is believing. A belief founded on affirmative contact with the Divine. Merging into the Indivisible Field of Omni-consciousness (or supraconsciousness) is a prerequisite. No one can fake this realization, otherwise, it is mere parroting of another's description of their Omni-personal vision. Again, this would qualify as
blind faith and therefore, truly be speculative by definition.
Spirit cannot be proven rationally, encapsulated by reason, enacted by methodical process or clinical experimentation. Only a fool or a madman would think it could be. In a nutshell, it needs to be directly experienced, internally, and then gradually integrated through meditation and contemplation. This, however, does not prove anything to the greater collective of humanity, rather, it remains a subjective experience. One which transforms the very structure of our individual understanding of our own existence and how it has an undeniable symbiosis with everything else in the universe. So, is this a conceptual impasse? Can we find any bridge to traverse the gap in our ideologies? I suspect not but I won't make any absolute statements toward this end, as I cannot know your experience.
burnt said:
But I really wish people who propose such ideas would be coherent and try and find mechanisms or experiments to falsify at least some their statements. Otherwise its just baseless speculation.
Hmmm... what exactly do you mean by, "
falsify at least some of their statement"? Did you really mean to type the word falsify? Don't you really mean clarify, substantiate, shed some light upon... or convey some reasonable and perceivable truth about? Why would I want to
falsify any part of my attempt to communicate my ideas and impressions about a plane of being which is both, the source and interior nature of all that exists? Now, I may choose to refer to it as
Supreme Consciousness but I cannot prove it exists to anyone else, despite my conviction that it is the interior core and very Self of all forms of being, through the primacy of a central point of awareness.
I know semantically, our attempts at interpreting our vision is a purely subjective endeavor but make no mistake about it, when the individuated sense of self is shattered and awareness still continues to persist, still has an essential core of being... could this not be labeled as
consciousness in it's purest, most fundamental state of being?
Again, it is necessary to have this realization within one's own direct experience of such a subtle kind of primary awareness, by which we temporarily loose ourselves within said immersion with Spirit. Some East Indian sages claim that all of the physical manifestation of existence is illusory and essentially, unreal. So too, they emphasize that only God is truly real. This is mirrored in many of the monotheistic religions and philosophies around our planetary body. This is a dualistic philosophy, yet, it's coherence necessitates belief in a polarity between the Indivisible Causative Force and the outcome of said
Force, mysteriously dividing itself into the many particles and waves of cosmic energy (thereby creating our universe).
Advaita stresses the realization of the non-dual nature of Omniconsciousness. This implies a belief that the Divine Spirit is immanent in every part of existence. I agree that this is a conceptual assertion. After all, communication is fundamentally conceptual. As to "mechanisms or experiments", they are only reliably duplicated within our own individual mind-awareness and cannot be brought out, into an objective scientific format, by which we might examine it from the outside. It is an internal journey and must be done by the solitary traveler. :idea:
By redirecting the focus of our individuated awareness upon the lens of our
singular eye, we are able to see this very singularity of being... The Omniself. So I must ask, what is incoherent about this thought form? Sure, they are just words but they are as close as I am able to come, to transmitting the content of my immersions within the Godhead.
I feel it is of paramount importance, that we learn to understand that we do not need to 'prove' the existence of a Divine plane of consciousness. It is fully beyond our scope and cannot be reduced to human conceptual format, by deduction or through hypothesis. We can reflect it's intelligence, each in our own way, but we will never be able to contain the Infinite Spirit within a pragmatic series of tests or arrive at any consensus through our advanced scrutiny or clinical procedural endeavors (to grasp it's evasive formlessness, it's inconceivable
reality, it's incomprehensible... Void). :shock:
Socrates said:
My knowledge comes from an unknowing.
Lao Tzu said:
The Tao which can be spoken of with words is not the Eternal Tao.
Bodhidharma said:
To attain enlightenment you have to see your own true nature. Unless you see your own true nature, all this talk about cause and effect is nonsense. To find Buddha, you have to see your own true nature. Whoever sees his own true nature is a Buddha. If you don't see your own true nature... invoking the Gods, reciting Sutras, making offerings and keeping precepts are all useless.
Shankaracharya said:
Reality can be experienced only with the eye of understanding, not just by scholarly, intellectual thinking. It must be realized internally, as one's own true Self. What the Supreme God truly is, must be seen directly within one's own mind. Like looking into a mirror. How can others do it for you?
Ramana Maharshi said:
There is only one state, that of consciousness or awareness (of existence). The three states of waking, dreaming and sleeping... cannot be real. They simply come and go. Only the real Self will always exist. You are awareness. Awareness is another name for Self. Since you are awareness and consciousness, there is no need to attain or cultivate it. All that you have to do is to give up being aware of other things that are not the Self. If one gives up being aware of them, then pure awareness alone remains, and that is of the Self.
Albert Einstein said:
A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty - it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man. Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune, intoned in the distance by an invisible player.
Albert Einstein said:
The most beautiful and most profound experience is the sensation of the mystical. It is the sower of all true science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead. To know that what is impenetrable to us really exists, manifesting itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty which our dull faculties can comprehend only in their primitive forms - this knowledge, this feeling is at the center of true religiousness.
Eckhart Tolle said:
It wasn't through the mind, through thinking, that the miracle that is life on earth or your body were created and are being sustained. At the deepest level of Being, you are One with all that is. Nothing ever happened in the past; it happened in the Now. Nothing will ever happen in the future; it will happen in the now. Life is now. There was never a time when your life was not now, nor will there ever be.
BoyPony said:
God is NOW. Neither the past nor future exists. God is the ever unfolding moment of now, which is precisely where all permutations of energy exist. Energy is never static. It is always changing and fluctuating. God is pure self-actualization. God is doing one thing and one thing only: being itself in every way it can. In other words, all of reality happens when God is simply being itself. God has no other purpose or goal.In this sense, we could describe all of reality as the life of God being itself.Reality and everything we experience is God doing its thing to be itself as it is expressed right now in the current moment. Nothing more, nothing less. Absolute, total and complete self-expression and actualization. There is nothing more for God to do other than to... be God.
embracethevoid said:
We are not just hard-wired to access the Omniself, we ARE the Omniself. All that remains is to remove any fear that you yourself are God himself in all his might, glory and splendour. The fear of doing so is merely the fear of doing injustice to the name of God. Thus you must first be acquainted with the name of that which created you. Once you understand the name, you can act either with effort under your own name or effortlessly through that name.
Yeah, what those guys said... Ditto!
...but them the thought occurred to me that you actually are right. Everything that ever could be is, and everything that will ever be likely already is. 
