"The billionaires I know almost without exception use hallucinogens on a regular basis"

[Nathanial.Dread]

The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.

The only person talking about socialism in this threat is you so far.

Blessings
~ND

 

[Biawak]

The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.

The only person talking about socialism in this threat is you so far.

Blessings
~ND

This sounds a little like socialism to me...

As for equality i really do not think it is too much to ask for a more even distribution of wealth.

 

[swimwithlove]

LSD also decreases performance on tests of attention and concen-
tration [36,37]. Jarvik et al. [38] found 100μg LSD to impair recognition and recall of various stimuli. Aronson and Watermann [39] showed learning processes to
be unaffected by 75–150μg LSD. Jarvik et al. [40] found that 100μg LSD significantly impaired performance on arithmetic while 50 μg had no such effect. Memory was
also affected by LSD as was illustrated with the Wechsler Bellevue Scale [41]. Impairment of visual memory was shown in the Bender–Gestalt test [34]. Thinking pro-
cesses are more resistant but can be also affected when higher doses of LSD are given [42,43]. Under the influence of LSD, subjects will overestimate time intervals
[44]. Lienert [45–49] showed in several intelligence tests, that intellectual functions are impaired under LSD. He interpreted his results as a regression of intellectual func-
tions to an ontogenetically younger state of development. See Hintzen [50] for a complete review of neurocognitive studies with LSD.

The Pharmacology of Lysergic Acid Diethylamide: A Review

Wayback Machine

Thanks for this, it always helps to take into consideration the facts on the other side.

SWIM has never tried LSD, but this may dissuade SWIM for quite a while.

 

[obliguhl]

@ufo
Cool, let me know how you liked it. It's among the top three most influential books on wealth building (besides think and grow rich) i have read. If i had to gift two books to people about the subject it would be 4 hour workweek and the millionaire fastlane.

As for equality i really do not think it is too much to ask for a more even distribution of wealth. It certainly wouldn't hurt your basement dwelling virgin to be thrown a few sexually gratifying crumbs by some studmuffin that's getting laid by 3 different partners each night.

It might help, but it might stop him from improving his life to the point, where he is actually attractive enough to gain independence from these imagined sexual alms. The problem is, that this implies a cultural superiority of the stud ...or the capitalist. Not everyone wants to be a donald trump or grant cardone in character. Not everyone wants to be a player. But i'd say there is a middle ground which can be defended as a sort of concession one has to make living in a capitalist society.

@nathaniel.dread

If you want to get political about it, you could make an argument that the development of the 'rugged individual' and 'self made man' serves primarily to keep the lower classes self-focused and competing with eachother instead of working collaboratively on better their collective circumstances. But surely that's conspiracy theory.

that is an interesting point. Would be hard to find out wether or not that was by design. I suspect this has simply developed over the hundreds of years it took for capitalism to form. The american dream surely is problematic because it implies that every man with broken legs can reach the top of mt.everest...this is certainly very unlikely while theoretically true.

I also respect people more who achieve more.

 

[hug46]

It might help, but it might stop him from improving his life to the point, where he is actually attractive enough to gain independence from these imagined sexual alms. The problem is, that this implies a cultural superiority of the stud ...or the capitalist. Not everyone wants to be a donald trump or grant cardone in character. Not everyone wants to be a player. But i'd say there is a middle ground which can be defended as a sort of concession one has to make living in a capitalist society.

I agree with you about the cultural superiority. The same could be said for the cultural inferiority of the 40 year old virgin but i do think, whether it is right or wrong, that a virgin that wishes to get laid overcomes a culturally defined hurdle once said action has taken place.

I also agree with the middle ground but we are talking about billionaires here. An obscene amount of money when there are homeless and starving people.
I maybe a little outdated in my views but when a book that professes to help you 10x your per hour output is described as a self help book it saddens me. But having said that i am unambitious and happy with being that way.

This sounds a little like socialism to me...

hug46 wrote:


As for equality i really do not think it is too much to ask for a more even distribution o

Guity as charged. But surely you can add more to the conversation than that Thatcher quote Biawak. I'm a little dissapointed in you!

 

[Ufostrahlen]

Thanks for this, it always helps to take into consideration the facts on the other side.

SWIM has never tried LSD, but this may dissuade SWIM for quite a while.

With the dopamine stimulation LSD is really unique and colorful, other psychedelics impair certain brain functions as well.

@ufo
Cool, let me know how you liked it. It's among the top three most influential books on wealth building (besides think and grow rich) i have read. If i had to gift two books to people about the subject it would be 4 hour workweek and the millionaire fastlane.

hrmpf, it didn't showed up in my email account. before i go pirating it, could you write a short review in 2-3 sentences about the main thesis of the book? why is it so good (according to you) and why isn't it a scam? because everybody has to work at least 35h a week... or so I think.

The book I've read about building startups was 0 to 1 from Peter Thiel and I don't really recommend it. It's boring and you can watch some of his talks on YouTube for free anyway. No need to buy the book.

The book I'd like to read is this: Dreamism: The travel journal of an astral explorer...and a guide to the Out of Body Experience: Amazon.co.uk: Collings, Jane, Gandy, Sam: 9781518817458: Books -- because according to the lucid dream theory, you can't distinguish lucid dreams from waking life with average thinking. Both times the prefrontal cortex is active and you critically have to find signs, why your waking life is now a lucid dream. Once you realize you are in a lucid dream, you then just materialize Warren Buffett or any financial advisor in the main room of Castillo Caribe and ask him how to improve business. Everything is possible in a LD, so why not learn to make a couple of Bs for a charitable foundation that has the mission to cure mind problems like alzheimer, schizophrenia, depression etc. With the given machine park and the financial power, psychedelic research on a sidetrack will be really easy.

Even hedgefond manager do this once in a while (on purpose tho?)

Kyle: Look, I had a fascinating out of body experience meeting with one of the world's top central bankers in a private meeting about three years ago. And he said, "You know Kyle, quantitative easing only works when you're the only country doing it." He would never say that publicly. And I'll protect his name, because it was a private meeting. But it was one of those moments where I...it was one of those epiphanies almost, where it's something you and I knew, but hearing him say it, call it one of the four top central bankers in the world, it was a jarring experience for me, because when I look around the world today, everyone's in the same boat

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

That's why I'm so keen on learning to lucid dream and not reading books.

Define 'self made.'

Pablo Escobar was a self made billionaire.

He didn't stand behind his product and looked down on end consumers. That's a recipe for disaster. The customer is king and if you don't take you own product, it really must be shitty.

 

[JustATourist]

LSD also decreases performance on tests of attention and concen-
tration [36,37]. Jarvik et al. [38] found 100μg LSD to impair recognition and recall of various stimuli. Aronson and Watermann [39] showed learning processes to
be unaffected by 75–150μg LSD. Jarvik et al. [40] found that 100μg LSD significantly impaired performance on arithmetic while 50 μg had no such effect. Memory was
also affected by LSD as was illustrated with the Wechsler Bellevue Scale [41]. Impairment of visual memory was shown in the Bender–Gestalt test [34]. Thinking pro-
cesses are more resistant but can be also affected when higher doses of LSD are given [42,43]. Under the influence of LSD, subjects will overestimate time intervals
[44]. Lienert [45–49] showed in several intelligence tests, that intellectual functions are impaired under LSD. He interpreted his results as a regression of intellectual func-
tions to an ontogenetically younger state of development. See Hintzen [50] for a complete review of neurocognitive studies with LSD.

The Pharmacology of Lysergic Acid Diethylamide: A Review

Wayback Machine

Thanks for this, it always helps to take into consideration the facts on the other side.

SWIM has never tried LSD, but this may dissuade SWIM for quite a while.

No need to worry.
All those studies observed that subjects were impaired DURING a psychedelic trip, not after the experience.
There is no evidence whatsoever that psychedelics cause long-lasting cognitive impairments after the experience.

In other words, while you're tripping balls you will have trouble doing math, nothing surprising there.

The studies I remember that looked at long-lasting effects showed no difference with controls, and others even showed improvements in certain cognitive tasks.

One random example:

Personality, Psychopathology, Life Attitudes and Neuropsychological Performance among Ritual Users of Ayahuasca: A Longitudinal Study

Ayahuasca is an Amazonian psychoactive plant beverage containing the serotonergic 5-HT2A agonist N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) and monoamine oxidase-inhibiting alkaloids (harmine, harmaline and tetrahydroharmine) that render it orally active. Ayahuasca ingestion is a central feature in several...

journals.plos.org

 

[JustATourist]

Robin Carhart-Harris:

“One of the presenters today showed evidence that the trait of openness (which is actually increased by psychedelics) is linked with economic productivity. People with this trait of openness actually have higher levels of income, maybe because they are more supple in their thinking and in their behaviour. They are prepared to be inventive and think outside the box. Maybe if psychedelics promote this style of thinking it may have some economic benefits.”

Psychedelics have a tendency to loosen "repetitive, overly reinforced patterns of activity and behavior" (one of the reason why psychedelics have been shown to be potentially beneficial in addiction or depression), it's not surprising that they increase forms of creativity that can benefit entrepreneurs.

Reminds me of the classic study by James Fadiman back when LSD was legal:

http://prx.sagepub.com/content/19/1/211.short

 

[Ufostrahlen]

Robin Carhart-Harris:

“One of the presenters today showed evidence that the trait of openness (which is actually increased by psychedelics) is linked with economic productivity. People with this trait of openness actually have higher levels of income, maybe because they are more supple in their thinking and in their behaviour. They are prepared to be inventive and think outside the box. Maybe if psychedelics promote this style of thinking it may have some economic benefits.”

Great video, CH is really knowledgeable. From the same movie - http://www.consciousness3d.net/:

[YOUTUBE]

 

[swimwithlove]

No need to worry.
All those studies observed that subjects were impaired DURING a psychedelic trip, not after the experience.
There is no evidence whatsoever that psychedelics cause long-lasting cognitive impairments after the experience.

In other words, while you're tripping balls you will have trouble doing math, nothing surprising there.

The studies I remember that looked at long-lasting effects showed no difference with controls, and others even showed improvements in certain cognitive tasks.

One random example:

Personality, Psychopathology, Life Attitudes and Neuropsychological Performance among Ritual Users of Ayahuasca: A Longitudinal Study

Ayahuasca is an Amazonian psychoactive plant beverage containing the serotonergic 5-HT2A agonist N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) and monoamine oxidase-inhibiting alkaloids (harmine, harmaline and tetrahydroharmine) that render it orally active. Ayahuasca ingestion is a central feature in several...

journals.plos.org

SWIM might just try LSD then. The second quote in the OP also mentions the scientists finding solutions "at the end" of their trips, not during.

 

[swimwithlove]

No need to worry.
All those studies observed that subjects were impaired DURING a psychedelic trip, not after the experience.
There is no evidence whatsoever that psychedelics cause long-lasting cognitive impairments after the experience.

In other words, while you're tripping balls you will have trouble doing math, nothing surprising there.

The studies I remember that looked at long-lasting effects showed no difference with controls, and others even showed improvements in certain cognitive tasks.

One random example:
Personality, Psychopathology, Life Attitudes and Neuropsychological Performance among Ritual Users of Ayahuasca: A Longitudinal Study

SWIM might just try LSD then. The second quote in the OP also mentions the scientists finding solutions "at the end" of their trips, not during.

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

Cognitive Enhancement

Experimental evidence of psychedelic cognitive enhancement comes from studies of practical problem solving, abstract concepts, and psychotherapy.

The Sleeping Giant of Psychedelics' Future — ?Innovative Problem Solving

A significant instance of problem solving resulted in a Nobel Prize for Kary Mullis. Until the invention of the polymerase chain reaction (PCR), a common problem in biology was that biological samples were often too small to analyze, but Mullis solved that and won a Nobel Prize. He described how LSD aided him in doing so.

"PCR's another place where I was down there with the molecules when I discovered it and I wasn't stoned on LSD, but my mind by then had learned how to get down there. I could sit on a DNA molecule and watch the [indistinct] go by. . . . I've learned that partially I would think, and this is again my opinion, through psychedelic drugs . . . if I had not taken LSD ever would I have still been in PCR? I don't know, I doubt it, I seriously doubt it." (Mullis 1998; "Horizon: Psychedelic Science" 1997)

From the point of view of psychedelic cognitive studies, Mullis's example is noteworthy because he did not have his insight while taking psychedelics but instead used psychedelics to increase his ability to visualize, then transferred that cognitive skill back to his ordinary mindbody state. This confirms the idea that some skills learned in one state can be transferred to another. Transference and nontransference between mindbody states is itself a cognitive process that deserves study — learning to remember dreams, for example. Learning to increase this flow, if it is possible, would increase access to stores of information and possibly to new cognitive skills.

How Psychedelics Enhance Cognition, Boost Intelligence, and Expand Cognitive Studies | Reality Sandwich

Society benefits from intellectual work. If chemicals make that work more efficient, insightful, and creative, isn't it a professional duty for intellectuals to work as well as they can by using chemical cognitive enhancers?

realitysandwich.com

------



If psychedelics enhanced intelligence or provided some sort of enlightenment, by taking them you would realize that desire leads to suffering and that material possessions do not bring happiness, you could have all the money and material objects in the world and still be miserable, and still be missing out on the core of what it means to live life, all that money and all those material objects will not travel with your conscious-being when it leaves the physical body at death, yet wisdom and experience gained through a life well lived just might...

You figure psychedelics should put into perspective what's truly important...


------

these data suggest that regular use of psychedelic drugs could potentially lead to structural changes in brain areas supporting attentional processes, self-referential thought, and internal mentation. These changes could underlie the previously reported personality changes in long-term users and highlight the involvement of the PCC in the effects of psychedelics.

Long-term use of psychedelic drugs is associated with differences in brain structure and personality in humans - PubMed

Psychedelic agents have a long history of use by humans for their capacity to induce profound modifications in perception, emotion and cognitive processes. Despite increasing knowledge of the neural mechanisms involved in the acute effects of these drugs, the impact of sustained psychedelic use...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Psychedelics and Mental Health: A Population Study

The classical serotonergic psychedelics LSD, psilocybin, mescaline are not known to cause brain damage and are regarded as non-addictive. Clinical studies do not suggest that psychedelics cause long-term mental health problems. Psychedelics have been ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

http://naturalsociety.com/research-suggests-psychedelic-mushrooms-offer-valuable-brain-treatments/

Low dose psychedelics increase neurogenesis, help mice unlearn fear - Psychedelic Frontier

A new study of mice published in Experimental Brain Research shows that low doses (but not high doses) of psychedelics increase the rate of neuron creation in the hippocampus, and help the mice to rapidly unlearn conditioned fear responses. From the abstract (paragraph breaks added for...

psychedelicfrontier.com

Psychedelic Neuroplasticity

A case for psychedelics as facilitators of long term identity modification and neuroplasticity.

psychedelic-information-theory.com

Psychedelic Neuroplasticity






-eg

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

Unlike Mullis's experience of transferring a skill back to his ordinary state, most instances of psychedelic problem solving occur while the person's cognitive processes are psychedelically augmented. This is most clearly illustrated by "Psychedelic Agents in Creative Problem Solving: A Pilot Study," by Willis Harman, a professor of engineering economic systems, and a team of researchers at Stanford Research Institute. Working with twenty-seven men who were "engaged in various professional occupations, i.e., engineers, physicists, mathematicians, architects, a furniture designer, and a commercial artist and had a total of 44 professional problems they wanted to work on," the Stanford Research Institute team divided them into groups of three or four and gave them 200 milligrams of mescaline, followed by a quiet period of listening to music. Then they had snacks and discussed their problems with their group. Following this they spent three or four hours working alone on their problems. As a result of psychedelic enhancement, the practical results were impressive.

How Psychedelics Enhance Cognition, Boost Intelligence, and Expand Cognitive Studies | Reality Sandwich

Society benefits from intellectual work. If chemicals make that work more efficient, insightful, and creative, isn't it a professional duty for intellectuals to work as well as they can by using chemical cognitive enhancers?

realitysandwich.com

Everything discussed above suggest that psychedelics can enhance skills while on AND off of the compounds, rather than one or the other...

Your skills can be enhanced while under the influence of psychedelics, yet, while sober, you may also draw on your past psychedelic experiences for novel methods of thought or problem solving....

-eg

 

[Jees]

Everything is tools, tools is everything. Just watch yourself.

About "The billionaires I know almost without exception use hallucinogens on a regular basis"?

The on a regular base hallucinogens I know use an exceptional basis without billionairs.

 

[Ufostrahlen]

If psychedelics enhanced intelligence or provided some sort of enlightenment, by taking them you would realize that desire leads to suffering and that material possessions do not bring happiness, you could have all the money and material objects in the world and still be miserable, and still be missing out on the core of what it means to live life, all that money and all those material objects will not travel with your conscious-being when it leaves the physical body at death, yet wisdom and experience gained through a life well lived just might...

We should totally give hungry African children psychedelics, so they can realize that their clinging to food, medicine and agricultural advancements creates suffering.

What I really wonder: why does it have to be a cave to realize that suffering is only created in the mind. Why not this place:

[YOUTUBE]

Maybe you can enjoy a cave, maybe you can enjoy a Hollywood home. I think it just depends on the perspective. I'm glad Obli refuted the group think allegations from the other thread, not everybody wants to be a hippie. I personally feel that psychedelics and spiritually should to rise from the caves and jungles and fly into mansion and beachfront homes.

PS: all this 'material possession creates suffering talk' reminds me starkly of Mother Theresa's preaching that you can only experience Jesus thru suffering :thumb_dow :!: - may Satan have mercy on her soul. :twisted: Personally I want real doctors, technology and wealth, since I have no need for fake spirituality. 8)

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

If psychedelics enhanced intelligence or provided some sort of enlightenment, by taking them you would realize that desire leads to suffering and that material possessions do not bring happiness, you could have all the money and material objects in the world and still be miserable, and still be missing out on the core of what it means to live life, all that money and all those material objects will not travel with your conscious-being when it leaves the physical body at death, yet wisdom and experience gained through a life well lived just might...

We should totally give hungry African children psychedelics, so they can realize that their clinging to food, medicine and agricultural advancements creates suffering.

What I really wonder: why does it have to be a cave to realize that suffering is only created in the mind. Why not this place:

[YOUTUBE]

Maybe you can enjoy a cave, maybe you can enjoy a Hollywood home. I think it just depends on the perspective. I'm glad Obli refuted the group think allegations from the other thread, not everybody wants to be a hippie. I personally feel that psychedelics and spiritually should to rise from the caves and jungles and fly into mansion and beachfront homes.

PS: all this 'material possession creates suffering talk' reminds me starkly of Mother Theresa's preaching that you can only experience Jesus thru suffering :thumb_dow :!: - may Satan have mercy on her soul. :twisted: Personally I want real doctors, technology and wealth, since I have no need for fake spirituality. 8)

Who said anything about being a hippie? Or living in a cave, there is something in between a cave and a mansion you know, it's not like the only choices are excessive consumption or living in a cave.

It has more to do with being a responsible human being.

The Second Noble Truth: The Truth the Causes of Suffering - ZENGUIDE.COM

A comprehensive resource for zen and buddhism practitioners: information on history, principles, practice, meditation guide, zen and buddhism related media (books, art, video and audio), organizations directory, and links to additional on-line resources. Some content available via XML RSS. The...

www.zenguide.com

Some fake spirituality for you. (Though most of what Siddhartha realized was how to live a happy life, it's more philosophy than spirituality, but it's fake in your eyes regardless, right? )

maybe you should give the starving people in the third world some of the billions of dollars being hoarded...the world bank and IMF will send "financial hitmen" to developing nations and offer them a loan with massive interest, they do anything they can to get the nation to take the deal, then the nation generally pays back the initial loan, but is indebted by the horrible interest, and since a nation can't just "make more" money, they are forced to give the world bank and the IMF the resources of their land, so these countries fail to develop, and as a result of a predatory loan must strip all their homes natural resources...the first world does some very shady things to remain the first world, and not only do they prevent these nations from developing and gaining any real power, they pillage all these nations resources...all just so people in the first world can live there excessive, over-consumptive, high standard of life.

There's also local effect, there's a finite amount of money, you can't just print more, so all the billions being hoarded by a small percent of wealthy individuals is also money that the middle, working, and lower classes will never see, every dollar you hoard leaves another without.

but no your right, caring about other human beings or the planet means your a hippie. Why would anybody want to live with only what the need to be comfortable? What good reasons could there be for thinking that excessive consumption could somehow be a bad thing? Material possessions are all you need to be happy, desire doesn't cause suffering, because the second noble truth is fake spirituality, all you need to live a full and meaningful life is money, lots of money, and possessions, yup, that's the path to true happiness.

-eg

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

Also, nothing I said had anything to do with Jesus or intentionally suffering. Buddhist philosophy explains how one can absolve oneself from suffering, not indulge in it.

Buddha lived with those who practice asceticism and found it to be flawed...

-eg

 

[Ufostrahlen]

maybe you should give the starving people in the third world some of the billions of dollars being hoarded...

That's not my business, I'll let Bill Gates et al. do the job.

the world bank and IMF will send "financial hitmen" to developing nations and offer them a loan with massive interest, they do anything they can to get the nation to take the deal, then the nation generally pays back the initial loan, but is indebted by the horrible interest, and since a nation can't just "make more" money, they are forced to give the world bank and the IMF the resources of their land, so these countries fail to develop, and as a result of a predatory loan must strip all their homes natural resources..

You watched too much Zeitgeist without researching and thinking for yourself.

There's also local effect, there's a finite amount of money, you can't just print more, so all the billions being hoarded by a small percent of wealthy individuals is also money that the middle, working, and lower classes will never see, every dollar you hoard leaves another without.

Of course you can print more money if more services and goods are produced. Just make sure to curb the inflation.

every dollar you hoard leaves another without.

Have you checked this statement with accepted economic theories or are you learned about money creation? I rather doubt it, but I accept it as a working hypothesis nevertheless. You should test it and write a paper about it. Maybe it's a really good paper that some peer-reviewed economic journal is willing to print, I will sure read it.

Seriously, put it to the test and make it an accepted economic theory, literally billions of people are waiting to hear the truth about money and how it is created. Two nobel prizes for economics and peace will be yours.

but no your right, caring about other human beings or the planet means your a hippie. Why would anybody want to live with only what the need to be comfortable? What good reasons could there be for thinking that excessive consumption could somehow be a bad thing? Material possessions are all you need to be happy, desire doesn't cause suffering, because the second noble truth is fake spirituality, all you need to live a full and meaningful life is money, lots of money, and possessions, yup, that's the path to true happiness.

Also, nothing I said had anything to do with Jesus or intentionally suffering. Buddhist philosophy explains how one can absolve oneself from suffering, not indulge in it.

Buddha lived with those who practice asceticism and found it to be flawed...

-eg

Buddhism is not a philosophy, it's a dogmatic religion. Hence the 4 noble "truths". But dogmatic truth doesn't roll with falsifiability. You should google the koan from my signature. It sums up my view on Buddha, Buddhism and Buddhists.