Introduction:
I have frequently tried to make the case that DMT is not a gateway to the spirit world and that spiritual beliefs stemming from psychedelic experiences, spontaneous spiritual experiences, and spiritual experiences induced by rituals or meditation are not real. My motivation is to seek the truth and to prevent a massive large scale misunderstanding of psychedelic drugs in a somewhat paranoid fear that something like what happened in the 60's will again happen and destroy serious scientific research into these substances and human consciousness.
I have already made my case against religion in the "freedom from religion" thread. If readers want some more back-round info check it out. I may wind up repeating myself here but no big deal I want to start a fresh discussion for those new users to take part in the discussion without having to re-read a very long thread. Many authors in a host of popular books have also made similar cases against religion so there is plenty of info on that topic out there. Most often these authors skip over or don't discuss psychedelic drugs but since this is a psychedelic drug oriented site I want to take on those experiences specifically and how they related to modern and historical notions of spirit and or spiritualism.
Quantum spiritualism:
I first want to dispel the myth that quantum mechanics provides a mechanism in which spiritual experience can be explained or made to seem real. If you don't know what I mean by the myth of quantum spiritualism just watch one of the mainstream popular documentaries like "what the bleep do we know" which I and many others consider to be complete rubbish and a gross misinterpretation of quantum mechanics. The basic myth that I wish to dispel is the idea that "we create reality". I want to dispel the myth that the universe is conscious and that consciousness is the root of all things. This in turn will allow a more logical and realistic explanation of the psychedelic experience.
There is a host of books some written by physicists such as "The tao of physics" by Fritjof Capra that claim that modern physics confirms eastern spiritual beliefs. They are wrong and I hope I can explain why.
But first lets look at what aspects of quantum mechanics these so called "gurus of science" claim validates their beliefs.
1)- Wave/particle duality of light. Basically the idea here is that depending on experimental set up light can appear as a wave or a particle. Even stranger is that even if you want to look at a source of light from a galaxy thousands of light years away the decision to observe it as a particle or a wave can occur as soon as we decide to measure it. This has lead some spiritualists to claim that human consciousness and or observation influences the result.
2)- The Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics which states that quantum states are merely probabilities (which is true) until they are observed (wave function collapse) and then you know the result within a finite degree of accuracy. This rather complex and counter-intuitive idea is what drove Einstein to say "God does not play dice". He was wrong. This idea has also been hijacked by spiritualists to mean consciousness causes collapse which I also want to attempt to show is wrong. Note that the Copenhagen interpretation is not the only interpretation of quantum mechanics but it is the most widely accepted and no interpretation has refuted the probabilistic nature of quantum events.
3)- Quantum entanglement. Another strange aspect of quantum mechanics that has been proven shows us that lets say two photons are created as a pair from some other event (whether natural or induce by particle collisions) and they fly off in opposite direction are linked meaning when the spin state of one is known the other is also immediately known. Spiritualists have taken this to be an explanation for things like ESP and universal consciousness. It has lead some to believe that information can travel faster then the speed of light which is also not correct.
If you don't know or have never heard of these concepts just look them up information is all over the web. But do not read their interpretation because the web is loaded with misinformation. I mean loaded. I will take on each issue one at a time.
1)- The wave particle duality of light is a misnomer that quantum spiritualists taken to mean that human beings create our own reality. The famous double split experiment by Thomas Young is the most famous example of the wave nature of light. What is really going on however is that light is made up of photons. Photons are particles. If you do a double split experiment with modern equipment with lets say electrons you will get a picture that looks like the following:
Note that the more hits you do as you go from A to E the more the picture starts to look like a wave. Also you notice that the hits are random which further confirms the random probabilistic nature of subatomic particles. This picture was taken with electrons but the same applies for photons. But really its particles.
This kind of observation has led the famous physicists Richard Feynman to make the following statement:
Also another statement by Feynman:
So we see that photons are not waves they are particles but it doesn't matter what we call them we simply describe them in the same quantum mechanical way. Of course they can behave as waves but this behavior is a result of the statistical distribution of a large number of particles. There is no difference hence no duality and hence no room for the human mind to influence the outcome of the result. Also note that classical wave mechanics is entirely appropriate to make calculations about things electromagnetism in the normal scaled world we live in.
2)- The Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics in no way implies that human consciousness causes the wave function to collapse. The wave function derived first by Schrodinger is a mathematical method that utilizes very abstract mathematics to calculate something that can only give a probability for finding a particle in a given space and a certain time. Although the term wave function is still used its better described now as a state vector. I am not going to get into the mathematics because its above me. The point is there is nothing magical about it. Its just a mathematical abstraction. There are other mathematical abstractions such as Paul Dirac's which quantum states are represented by vectors in abstract multidimensional space and Heisenberg's matrix mechanics. The point is it doesn't matter they are all mathematical abstractions that are meant to give statistical results about quantum states.
So again there is nowhere in this theory that confirms spiritual notions that the human mind or consciousness at any level causes these quantum events to happen and that we create reality by this mechanism. Its a complete and utter myth.
3)- Quantum entanglement. This strange quantum truth does not imply that any information is traveling faster then the speed of light and in no way confirms any ideas of universal consciousness. Classical information channels are still required to complete the process. Furthermore just because the transmission of information is instantaneous does not mean that one photon sends information to the other. Its difficult for me to describe this concept without complex mathematics that I don't entirely understand. The point is that quantum entanglement does explain any sort of spiritual phenomenon.
To summarize I hope I have briefly outlined why quantum mechanics cannot be used to explain spiritual phenomenon.
Now we can continue this discussion to show how psychedelic and other spiritual experiences can be explained in a purely materialistic fashion. I will wait to get a few responses and or comments before I go down that road.
I have frequently tried to make the case that DMT is not a gateway to the spirit world and that spiritual beliefs stemming from psychedelic experiences, spontaneous spiritual experiences, and spiritual experiences induced by rituals or meditation are not real. My motivation is to seek the truth and to prevent a massive large scale misunderstanding of psychedelic drugs in a somewhat paranoid fear that something like what happened in the 60's will again happen and destroy serious scientific research into these substances and human consciousness.
I have already made my case against religion in the "freedom from religion" thread. If readers want some more back-round info check it out. I may wind up repeating myself here but no big deal I want to start a fresh discussion for those new users to take part in the discussion without having to re-read a very long thread. Many authors in a host of popular books have also made similar cases against religion so there is plenty of info on that topic out there. Most often these authors skip over or don't discuss psychedelic drugs but since this is a psychedelic drug oriented site I want to take on those experiences specifically and how they related to modern and historical notions of spirit and or spiritualism.
Quantum spiritualism:
I first want to dispel the myth that quantum mechanics provides a mechanism in which spiritual experience can be explained or made to seem real. If you don't know what I mean by the myth of quantum spiritualism just watch one of the mainstream popular documentaries like "what the bleep do we know" which I and many others consider to be complete rubbish and a gross misinterpretation of quantum mechanics. The basic myth that I wish to dispel is the idea that "we create reality". I want to dispel the myth that the universe is conscious and that consciousness is the root of all things. This in turn will allow a more logical and realistic explanation of the psychedelic experience.
There is a host of books some written by physicists such as "The tao of physics" by Fritjof Capra that claim that modern physics confirms eastern spiritual beliefs. They are wrong and I hope I can explain why.
But first lets look at what aspects of quantum mechanics these so called "gurus of science" claim validates their beliefs.
1)- Wave/particle duality of light. Basically the idea here is that depending on experimental set up light can appear as a wave or a particle. Even stranger is that even if you want to look at a source of light from a galaxy thousands of light years away the decision to observe it as a particle or a wave can occur as soon as we decide to measure it. This has lead some spiritualists to claim that human consciousness and or observation influences the result.
2)- The Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics which states that quantum states are merely probabilities (which is true) until they are observed (wave function collapse) and then you know the result within a finite degree of accuracy. This rather complex and counter-intuitive idea is what drove Einstein to say "God does not play dice". He was wrong. This idea has also been hijacked by spiritualists to mean consciousness causes collapse which I also want to attempt to show is wrong. Note that the Copenhagen interpretation is not the only interpretation of quantum mechanics but it is the most widely accepted and no interpretation has refuted the probabilistic nature of quantum events.
3)- Quantum entanglement. Another strange aspect of quantum mechanics that has been proven shows us that lets say two photons are created as a pair from some other event (whether natural or induce by particle collisions) and they fly off in opposite direction are linked meaning when the spin state of one is known the other is also immediately known. Spiritualists have taken this to be an explanation for things like ESP and universal consciousness. It has lead some to believe that information can travel faster then the speed of light which is also not correct.
If you don't know or have never heard of these concepts just look them up information is all over the web. But do not read their interpretation because the web is loaded with misinformation. I mean loaded. I will take on each issue one at a time.
1)- The wave particle duality of light is a misnomer that quantum spiritualists taken to mean that human beings create our own reality. The famous double split experiment by Thomas Young is the most famous example of the wave nature of light. What is really going on however is that light is made up of photons. Photons are particles. If you do a double split experiment with modern equipment with lets say electrons you will get a picture that looks like the following:
Note that the more hits you do as you go from A to E the more the picture starts to look like a wave. Also you notice that the hits are random which further confirms the random probabilistic nature of subatomic particles. This picture was taken with electrons but the same applies for photons. But really its particles.
This kind of observation has led the famous physicists Richard Feynman to make the following statement:
I want to emphasize that light comes in this form—particles. It is very important to know that light behaves like particles, especially for those of you who have gone to school, where you were probably told something about light behaving like waves. I'm telling you the way it does behave—like particles.
Also another statement by Feynman:
It's rather interesting to note that electrons looked like particles at first, and their wavish character was later discovered. On the other hand, apart from Newton making a mistake and thinking that light was "corpuscular," light looked like waves at first, and its characteristics as a particle were discovered later. In fact, both objects behave somewhat like waves, and somewhat like particles. In order to save ourselves from inventing new words such as "wavicles," we have chosen to call these objects "particles," but we all know that they obey these rules for drawing and combining arrows [representing complex values of wave functions] that I have been explaining. It appears that all the "particles" in Nature—quarks, gluons, neutrinos, and so forth (which will be discussed in the next lecture)—behave in this quantum mechanical way.
So we see that photons are not waves they are particles but it doesn't matter what we call them we simply describe them in the same quantum mechanical way. Of course they can behave as waves but this behavior is a result of the statistical distribution of a large number of particles. There is no difference hence no duality and hence no room for the human mind to influence the outcome of the result. Also note that classical wave mechanics is entirely appropriate to make calculations about things electromagnetism in the normal scaled world we live in.
2)- The Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics in no way implies that human consciousness causes the wave function to collapse. The wave function derived first by Schrodinger is a mathematical method that utilizes very abstract mathematics to calculate something that can only give a probability for finding a particle in a given space and a certain time. Although the term wave function is still used its better described now as a state vector. I am not going to get into the mathematics because its above me. The point is there is nothing magical about it. Its just a mathematical abstraction. There are other mathematical abstractions such as Paul Dirac's which quantum states are represented by vectors in abstract multidimensional space and Heisenberg's matrix mechanics. The point is it doesn't matter they are all mathematical abstractions that are meant to give statistical results about quantum states.
So again there is nowhere in this theory that confirms spiritual notions that the human mind or consciousness at any level causes these quantum events to happen and that we create reality by this mechanism. Its a complete and utter myth.
3)- Quantum entanglement. This strange quantum truth does not imply that any information is traveling faster then the speed of light and in no way confirms any ideas of universal consciousness. Classical information channels are still required to complete the process. Furthermore just because the transmission of information is instantaneous does not mean that one photon sends information to the other. Its difficult for me to describe this concept without complex mathematics that I don't entirely understand. The point is that quantum entanglement does explain any sort of spiritual phenomenon.
To summarize I hope I have briefly outlined why quantum mechanics cannot be used to explain spiritual phenomenon.
Now we can continue this discussion to show how psychedelic and other spiritual experiences can be explained in a purely materialistic fashion. I will wait to get a few responses and or comments before I go down that road.