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The intensity of DMT compared...

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SPAWNmaster

Rising Star
Hi there! I'm wondering about the compared intensity of DMT to some of the stronger psychedelic experiences SWIM has had.

SWIM experienced a breakthrough on LSD that at the time would have been classified as a "nightmare trip". After integrating and contemplating the experience over the past four or five years, SWIM realized that it was actually the best trip he has ever had. It was a growing experience from which SWIM still is learning today.

One hit of pretty strong blotter. At the time SWIM had only tripped about 10-15 times on LSD but had a number of experiences with other entheogens such as peyote and MDMA. On the peak, SWIM smoked some cannabis. Immediately SWIM's visual hallucinations (typically mild for him on LSD) became quite active. X-ray vision, rearrangement of the 3D visual space, and the apparent sensation that SWIM was experiencing a preview of future architecture and future technology. A noticeable OEV effect- swim was looking at some sort of plant and it began to blossom roses which would then die and then reblossom in a cyclical effect. That hallucination combined with several aural phenomenon gave swim the feeling that something was wrong and he went to lie down on a sofa in another room. By the time SWIM made it to the sofa, he began experiencing a rapid hearbeat, sweating profusely and panic at the overall direction of the experience.

The transition to the breakthrough is something that SWIM cannot recall at this point. One moment he was dealing with the panic and the next he had blasted through to a full visionary space with ego steadily dissolving. SWIM experienced a vision of him flying into a vision of his eye which somehow had a 5 point star in it. He kept flying through the image of his eye and coming back out and back in similar to how the zoomquilt wraps around to the beginning. He then experienced another vision of a dancing machine that was also representative of SWIM in some way.

During these visions SWIM's ego was steadily dissolving and he was panicking the whole time, trying to make sense of what was occuring. And then he died. He was simply destroyed, nothing, non existant, and no longer scared for his life. At this point he blasted through the cyclical visions to a new headspace...or it seems like it was outer space. He experienced the sensation that SWIM was "one with the universe" (cliche, I know!) and saw the universe as a single sine wave. He was simply an observer of this event. After some time coming to terms and understanding this oneness, SWIM slipped back down to a lower level of experience whereby his senses were integrating along with his ego. It felt like SWIM was being born again. SWIM was worried he wouldn't be integrated correctly and the more he worried, the slower he came back together. After he sort of accepted what was happening again, his synaesthetic senses began to reorient and his ego slowly built back into it's fully intact form whereby he remembered he was human, learnt to speak again, etc.

After that eternity brought him back to the LSD baseline, SWIM found himself shaking uncontrollably and wanting to experience "normality" and force a comedown. Years later, the friend who was tripsitting SWIM noted that SWIM appeared to have been "sleeping" on the couch while SWIM was experiencing this unbelievably intense trance state.


Sorry for the length there! But my question is- will SWIM's low-dose first time DMT experience be comparable to this trip description? I read in some thread (I've been lurking for some time...) that LSD is "tapwater" compared to DMT. But SWIM's experience resembles more of the DMT type of experience from what SWIM has read.

SWIM just wants to be as prepared as possible for his first experience- he knows that it is not your everyday substance to be messed with, and in fact his own DMT extraction will be his first psychedelic experience in 3-4 years.
 
in my limited experience with LSD, its not very comparable to DMT...DMT is extrememly immersive and visionary..where LSD was very psychologicla with visuals..but not immersive visions..

Mushrooms though are another story..IMO mushrooms do compare with DMT..if you take enough psilocin its just as powerful as DMT...and the fact that its oral and it lasts for hours makes it more challenging..In a way i get more out of mushrooms than I do smoked DMT..smoked DMT is amazing and is useful..but in a different way for me..i think ayahuasca and mushrooms are the most beinificial...mescaline can also be very mindblowing and brought me near hyperspace on one occasion..

I think the thing with DMT is that you can smoke it..its so short, and you are working with pure crystals..so its easy to be sure of your dose..and people dose high on it because its so rapid..even when you freak out its over so quickly...whith ayahuasca and mushrooms people arent so keen to take it that far.
 
That sounds like a pretty intense experience with your LSD and marijuana ego death. That being said, I have a strong relationship with many entheogens including oral DMT, LSA seeds, LSD, mescaline and so on, but none of them could have ever prepared me for the DMT breakthrough. I smoked sub-breakthrough doses of DMT many times and they do not even hint at the power of the blast. When I was finally catapulted through the mandalic membrane, I literally was in new territory - and it was shocking, mind-blowing beautiful and terrifying. It bore no resemblance, zero comparison to anything I have ever done in my life. The best way I can describe is taking a nuclear rocket launcher and aiming it at your face and then firing. Your LSD experience, while intense, may pale in comparison to this.
 
I can't compare DMT to anything. I've never taken so many shrooms to experience what FE talks about.

To me ther is no comparing DMT to anything possible. The short lived trip that it produces can't be compared to the 4-6 hour trip shrooms give me.

To me DMT is very unique.
 
joebono said:
That sounds like a pretty intense experience with your LSD and marijuana ego death. That being said, I have a strong relationship with many entheogens including oral DMT, LSA seeds, LSD, mescaline and so on, but none of them could have ever prepared me for the DMT breakthrough. I smoked sub-breakthrough doses of DMT many times and they do not even hint at the power of the blast. When I was finally catapulted through the mandalic membrane, I literally was in new territory - and it was shocking, mind-blowing beautiful and terrifying. It bore no resemblance, zero comparison to anything I have ever done in my life. The best way I can describe is taking a nuclear rocket launcher and aiming it at your face and then firing. Your LSD experience, while intense, may pale in comparison to this.


Wow!

That does give SWIM some perspective on the matter. Let me ask you this, then-

A sub-breakthrough dose to ease SWIM into the DMT experience...however "mild" that might be...could that compare in intensity to what SWIM has described about his LSD experience?

I just want to have an idea if we're looking at a full ego death, full 3D hallucination and visionary states, even on a sub breakthrough dose. Sorry if I'm not clear at what I'm getting at.

Thank you all for your responses. SWIM has duly noted them and will continue to tread cautiously toward his first DMT experience.
 
I really am quite surprised sometimes by how many people on this forum have never got there with mushrooms..I have eaten large doses where i couldnt even move i just had to lay on the ground in the dark, flying through alien cities on strange planets, meeting with hyperspace beings, angels etc..

Maybe its the mushrooms you guys have..i had access to psilio cyans all the time for 2 years and they are known as the strongest out there...wwwwaaaaaayyyy stronger than any cubes i ever had. Like 3-4 times stronger..
 
SPAWNmaster said:
Let me ask you this, then-

A sub-breakthrough dose to ease SWIM into the DMT experience...however "mild" that might be...could that compare in intensity to what SWIM has described about his LSD experience?

A strong sub-breakthrough dose of smoked DMT can be powerful, immersive and transformative similar to your LSD experience. I have had strong and interesting sub doses that brought me deep into the experience. But again, when the breakthrough happens the sub doses and all other psychedelic experiences pale in comparison to the their sheer intensity and utter alienness of the hyperspace launch.
 
fractal enchantment said:
I really am quite surprised sometimes by how many people on this forum have never got there with mushrooms..I have eaten large doses where i couldnt even move i just had to lay on the ground in the dark, flying through alien cities on strange planets, meeting with hyperspace beings, angels etc..

Maybe its the mushrooms you guys have..i had access to psilio cyans all the time for 2 years and they are known as the strongest out there...wwwwaaaaaayyyy stronger than any cubes i ever had. Like 3-4 times stronger..


That's interesting that you have gotten there with mushrooms. I have had strong experiences while on shroom trips too, but they are similar to hefty oral DMT trips which never seem to match the explosive intensity of the smoked breakthrough. I have had ego death on shrooms and pharmahuasca, but it seems like a different experience compared to the smoked version. So far I prefer the longer trips to smoked DMT, but then again my first three breakthroughs have been utter and complete mindfuck, panic, and terror - all in a drippy purple and pink orgasm.
 
I don't believe MDMA or LSD are entheogens ... as I understand, they are both synthetic, creatures of the lab. Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong there, but that's my understanding.

There's no reason to be in a hurry with spice. Work up from low doses until you find your sweet spot. You may find it more coherent - and, as others have said, immersive - than other psychoactives. I would say it's sensible to approach with respect.
 
comming from a lab has nothing to do with being an entheogen or not..thats a perversion of the very word entheogen..maybe you mean ethnobotanical??

And why would it matter anyway?..everything is natural in the sense that it all comes from nature...from trees to the internet...you think WE are the designers of any of it?...no, we are simply an intermediary...a small piece present within a much larger track...

Technology is natural...its a natural thing..it's what seems to preceed us...its part of the plan just like everything else...what we are moving towards..that thing that lies ahead, drawing us ever nearer and nearer trancends any closed definition of natural or unnatural...those are petty human ideals that immerge within a misunderstood concept of the cosmic game we call evolution..
 
fractal enchantment said:
Technology is natural...its a natural thing..it's what seems to preceed us...its part of the plan just like everything else...what we are moving towards..that thing that lies ahead, drawing us ever nearer and nearer trancends any closed definition of natural or unnatural...those are petty human ideals that immerge within a misunderstood concept of the cosmos...

amen
 
Without causing further debate, I'd simply like to add that by definition, I believe MDMA and LSD are entheogenic in nature because of their psychotropic effects as in my personal experiences. Others may not have such "divine experiences" but I also don't believe any two people are the same at baseline, let alone under the influence.

But to digress a little- I appreciate the responses to my original question and look forward to any other feedback from those experienced with DMT.
 
joebono said:
A strong sub-breakthrough dose of smoked DMT can be powerful, immersive and transformative similar to your LSD experience. I have had strong and interesting sub doses that brought me deep into the experience. But again, when the breakthrough happens the sub doses and all other psychedelic experiences pale in comparison to the their sheer intensity and utter alienness of the hyperspace launch.


Joe! It looks like I missed your post, hidden among the other responses. Thanks for addressing the second part of my question. I can only imagine what a breakthrough would be like if sub doses are just as powerful and immersive as some of SWIM's stronger psychedelic experiences.
 
I start thinking I might be ready to make and use spice. Then I read posts like this, and I realize how utterly unprepared I would be for something of that caliber...
 
I agree that the breakthrough has a qualitative difference to it that I have never reached on LSD. Mushrooms and oral dmt have led me to breakthrough on high doses. Leading up to the mushroom breakthroughs, I would have a short, "normal" trip which would end leaving me feel very strange. Then, suddenly, I would blast through, leaving body space completely.
 
benzyme said:
SPAWNmaster said:
LSD is "tapwater" compared to DMT.

it is.

one can 'drive' an LSD trip, even at high doses.
dmt drives you.


I have a feeling that my background in Zazen meditation might be helpful to prepare for this experience. It sounds as if unlike a traditional psychedelic where you can reason with yourself and the experience, DMT will force you through whatever you need to be shown.

Would it be safe to say that as long as you can just resign yourself and submit to the experience and observe, that would be an adequate mindset for sub doses?

Although, I keep hearing from you guys...nothing can prepare you for it lol. So that's likely the answer.
 
SPAWNmaster said:
Would it be safe to say that as long as you can just resign yourself and submit to the experience and observe, that would be an adequate mindset for sub doses?

My problem with the high dose is that I could not remember that I had smoked anything. I blacked out, and when I woke up I was zooming through space with no idea how I got there. Only after I was down for several minutes did I remember the sequence of smoking and blacking out.

But I hear that my experience (of not remembering that I was on a drug at all) is somewhat unusual (but not unheard of) for smoked DMT.

elphologist
 
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