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THE LIMITS...

Migrated topic.
I did it last night, too much and hit the big zero again..where you KNOW you're gone, dead as a doornail. the only thing that comforted me was that I could feel my body breathing, but I has zero sense of my body aside from that. It's a stunning experience and I've only hit this once before and I really don't want to repeat it. All I can say about it is that everything went totally black and it was a singularity..the big one...where you know you've just died.
Having hit this state once before helped, but I just couldn't believe that I was ever coming back even though I knew had come back from it before. Damn I have to be more careful about dose! I measured out 55mg and I knew it was a lot, but I didn't expect the potency of that batch!
 
I think its like juggling fire eventually you'll get burned. when it does happen that feeling that you will stay that way forever is the part I'd like to work on . I did feel some progress the last time I was obliterated into nothingness.

It may be that we are not ready to handle that level of an experience. is it even manageable?
Maybe its the psychedelic equivalent of level 10 river rapids.

Maybe its psychedelic noise between frequencies.


It would be funny if the alien beings don't even go that far in. they would say : "no way man, we don't even think about going into that zone what are you crazy or something? "
 
"It would be funny if the alien beings don't even go that far in."

Haha yeah, every once in a while they'll see one of us fly right by their realm to go smash ourselves in the nothingness, and they can't help but be a little worried about us.
 
Well..i think if there is a limit, we cannot know until we get there... I had the strongest trip of my life, the second tiime i smoked changa...In the middle of it, my ego was so destroyed, that i said to my friend, Endlesness: " I forgot i wasant you"...and at that point all human feelings where strange for me...fear was something to laugh about, aldow, i could only laugh and think about that, maybe one or two minutes after i got to that point. And as i was coming back the only thing i was thinking was: " How can we forget that "I", EGO, and linear time are the biggest ilussions ever!!!" I mean, i felt i was everything, and maybe at the very begingin, when i still had my ego on me, there was a litlle fear an confusion, but soon after "I" was so big an universal, that human feelings was something to small to atack me... When i was coming down, i could still fell this, but i could already fell my ego also..and it was in that point i could talk about time and ego, with no fear, just amazing uinity fellings.
 
Perhaps there are things simply unamginable; when the concept of infanatum exists it's nigh on impossible (at best) to reach a "limit" per say. The standard would suggest otherwise.
 
Felnik said:
I think its like juggling fire eventually you'll get burned. when it does happen that feeling that you will stay that way forever is the part I'd like to work on . I did feel some progress the last time I was obliterated into nothingness.

It may be that we are not ready to handle that level of an experience. is it even manageable?
Maybe its the psychedelic equivalent of level 10 river rapids.
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No way one can manage ANYTHING at that level of zero, nil, nothingness. The only thing I was able to do was to try to find some sense of my physical being and I had absolutely no capability to connect to my body except for the sound of my breathing. The strange thing is I was able to think clearly ( at least it seemed so at some level,) but I knew this was death and I found it just impossible to think that I would ever return. The sound of my breathing gave me some hope and I knew on some level that it was just a matter of time before this would go away. The first time I reached this state I was SO scared because I REALLY thought I was never coming back at all from this. From now on its more careful doses. :shock:
 
Antrocles, I salute you for venturing (or hurtling yourself?) this far.

Im sure many Nexians are familiar with the trail blazers Gracie and Zharkov who, quite a few years ago, issued a treatise on DMT; they stated the dose required to experience the 'full' DMT experience is 45-60mg with the caveat that doses over 55mg can be REALLY heavy.This was before the days of tools like the GVG which have made the process of consuming DMT so much more efficient and I think, in light of what we now know, their dosage schedule with the modern implements needs adjusting downwards.

I have had only a couple of such experiences and the last one had me thinking 'Do I ever need to do DMT at any dose ever again?';I had certainly reached the limit that my neural wiring could cope with.For those who havent been this far Im not certain I would wholeheartedly recommend it but as a once in a lifetime hit, I have no regrets.The paradox of our beloved molecule, eh?

The trip I allude to was 48mg via classic vaporgenie in one breath and was leagues away from the same dose consumed in 3 breaths.I think to achieve this level of experience, if you are that way inclined, is to consume your dose (40-50mg in my view) in a single inhalation.The thought of doing 60mg in this fashion gives me lower abdominal cramps and a need to find a toilet quickly.

Once more, I salute you and your ability to coherently write it up for others to get an inkling of how on can be so annihilated.I guess some of us enjoy totally annihilating the self because they enjoy the challenge of rebuilding.
 
corpus callosum said:
I think to achieve this level of experience, if you are that way inclined, is to consume your dose (40-50mg in my view) in a single inhalation.
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very well stated corpus!

Notice to all who cant quite get the breakthrough to THE level.

corpus callosum said:
I think to achieve this level of experience, if you are that way inclined, is to consume your dose (40-50mg in my view) in a single inhalation.
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Exactly!
 
^^ Maybe, but that dose for SWIM would certainly black her out. She has clean breakthroughs at 20mgs of freebase and anything past 30mgs there's nothing that comes back but physiological panic response.
 
corpus- really excellent points. i have never stated it outright as i have never really thought about it so directly, but now that you mention it- i do WHOLE-HEARTEDLY believe that getting your entire dose in one giant lungful is absolutely more powerful than the traditional '3-hit' method.

in fact, the two styles don't even compare...

i have my technique down pat. i never take more than a single hit for any of my journeys and, like my dear sister ragabr, 20mg is usually the perfect dose to completely break through and do substantial, quality work with the molecule.

i also agree that a dose of the size i consumed is really nothing i would ever recommend to anyone in this forum or anyone i work with directly.

and speaking of those i work with directly- it is quite interesting to note that only impossiblemachine has been able to get his entire dose in one go as i do. i find this fascinating as many of the seekers who step into my healing room are experienced marijuana smokers and can easily take down a huge, densely packed bowl of combusted weed without so much as a cough....yet seem to atavize to an asthmatic 4 year-old when it comes to taking a moderately deep lungful of gentle vapor...

even impossiblemachine lost all of his impressive chops after only a month-long break...

that ol' ego is capable of affecting even seemingly rock-solid physical abilities if it feels that there is a threat to it's existence. in truth, i'm not surprised by this at all really....

i love the way this thread has evolved. as usual, all of you guys blow me away with your wisdom and insight. thank you so much for sharing!!

with the deepest love and gratitude!!
 
antrocles said:
corpus- really excellent points. i have never stated it outright as i have never really thought about it so directly, but now that you mention it- i do WHOLE-HEARTEDLY believe that getting your entire dose in one giant lungful is absolutely more powerful than the traditional '3-hit' method.

in fact, the two styles don't even compare...

i have my technique down pat. i never take more than a single hit for any of my journeys and, like my dear sister ragabr, 20mg is usually the perfect dose to completely break through and do substantial, quality work with the molecule.
...
Click to expand...
Not to toot my own horn (okay – I guess I am tooting a bit), but I’ve been saying this for a long time now! Here are some excerpts:

Pharmacokinetics of dmt/Increasing peak experience
So far, this thread mainly discusses how to extend the duration of an experience, but what I’m more interested in is extending the depth of the experience without blackout or memory loss. It seems it can be done by taking a dose very quickly.
…
My observation has been that a single quick inhalation produces an experience of much greater intensity than the same dose taken in 2 or 3 hits. And it seems that memory is not affected as much either.
…
(With the proper equipment and technique, it’s relatively easy to inhale a 30mg dose in 10-15 seconds. I have average lung capacity at best, and can do it without difficulty.)
Click to expand...

Time frames for smoking, and tolerance
A single rapid inhalation of DMT can produce overwhelmingly intense effects that are qualitatively different from other methods of administration. (With a GVG it is possible to vaporize 25-30mg in a few seconds.) I’m not recommending this method, but I will say that the resulting experience is nothing like the experiences produced via “slower” smoking methods.
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how much spice do you need to have a breakthrough?
The faster you take your dose, the more likely you are to break through on a smaller amount. I always try to get my full dose in one quick inhalation – with the GVG it’s easy to inhale a 25-30mg dose in about 10 seconds. The effect is nothing like taking the same size dose in 3 or 4 leisurely inhalations.
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QUick question on subL/maoi and Vaped/spice!
When using changa, you are effectively diluting the DMT vapors. If used in a bong, you’re adding smoke from the leaf material. If using a VG, you’re adding vaporized plant material. To minimize the amount of vapor you inhale, you need to minimize the amount of material you vaporize.

I think the best method to minimize smoke/vapor inhalation is to pre-dose harmala alkaloids sublingually, wait about 20 minutes, then vaporize pure spice on a disc of non-reactive metal mesh in a VG. This method not only minimizes the amount of vapor that must be inhaled, but also is extremely effective.
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SWIMs new vaporizer - still have to snort :-(
Then I got a GVG. There is no comparison. The first time I used it, I thought I was doing something wrong. As I was inhaling, all I noticed was slightly above room-temperature air entering my lungs. It was only when I started feeling those familiar effects that I realized I had indeed inhaled vaporized DMT.

There’s no taste, no smell. And if you use a disc of copper mesh in the GVG, an entire dose can be vaporized in just a few seconds. (This produces a qualitatively different kind of experience. :shock: )
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Limits define. They delineate, circumscribe, include through exclusion. Hard pill to swallow when we are trying to extend our limits, but I believe this is a truth nonetheless. The trick is to respect your limits when you find them, but continue the search until you do and don't be fooled by FALSE limits. They often come from outside, but many false limits do come from within.

Great report Antrocles - insightful and introspective, as usual. I have been wanting to respond to it for a while, but was traveling and had very intermittent internet service...

cheers,
JBArk
 
gibran2 said:
DMT has no limits. But we most certainly do.
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Do you mean that hyperspace has no limits, but the human mind can only grasp so much? (Like the universe is to the body)

Or do you mean that there are people that could go way deeper into hyperspace regardless of what most people think the limits are?
 
clouds said:
gibran2 said:
DMT has no limits. But we most certainly do.
Click to expand...

Do you mean that hyperspace has no limits, but the human mind can only grasp so much? (Like the universe is to the body)

Or do you mean that there are people that could go way deeper into hyperspace regardless of what most people think the limits are?
Click to expand...
Hyperspace has no limits, but we are limited in many ways: cognitively, psychologically, emotionally. When we approach our personal limits, our relationship with DMT changes.

And DMT can bring one further than his personal limit. When this happens, one often chooses to never use DMT again. We’ve seen this happen with a number of Nexus members recently.
 
^^ I would like to discuss this a little bit more please.

First, when one says something has no limits, it's because that person doesn't know the objective limits. For example, my bedroom has limits... but I haven't seen the limits of the universe... so I assume it's infinite. Other example would be the life-span. I know that the life of my physical body is limited... but I don't know when Time began or if it is going to end... so I assume it's eternal. So, saying that something is limitless is always an assumption based on ignorance. Pretty much like when religious people talk about God as an infinite and omnipotent being that is the Big Boss of the Universe, and still not knowing the 'limits' of the Universe (which otherwise would give them a little more credibility). This so-called 'God' could be just the imaginary manager of the restaurant (known space) which we know could be just a part of the unknown city, metaphorically speaking.

So, do you agree that Hyperspace, the Physical Universe and Time seem Infinite because there is no evidence of their finiteness, and not because there is evidence of their infiniteness? And that saying that something has no limits cannot be more than an assumption based on the ignorance of such limits?
 
clouds said:
^^ I would like to discuss this a little bit more please.
...
So, do you agree that Hyperspace, the Physical Universe and Time seem Infinite because there is no evidence of their finiteness, and not because there is evidence of their infiniteness? And that saying that something has no limits cannot be more than an assumption based on the ignorance of such limits?
Click to expand...
I believe that hyperspace is infinite because my subjective experiences suggest it is infinite. The only evidence I have that anything is finite, infinite, real, or imaginary is my subjective experience, and the only thing of whose existence I can be certain is my subjective consciousness. Everything else is belief.

I don’t believe that our physical universe is infinite, but this is just an irrational belief – I don’t have evidence to suggest it is either finite or infinite. (I don’t think physicists have evidence pointing strongly to one possibility over the other.) However, I do believe that our universe is part of a larger multiverse which may be infinite.

Time doesn’t seem infinite. Time seems to me to be an illusion. Hyperspace seems to exist outside of time.

(Maybe this should be in a new thread?)
 
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