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The Quest for the Best Mescaline Extraction TEK
- Thread starter mew
- Start date
mew
huachumancer
they are described in the original post
many thanks!
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over night the cacti slurry (acidic tea made from powder) settled more than i imagined, suggesting decanting is definitely the best method of separation with such fine powder.
before mew left the vessel last evening he decanted as much as he could. this morning mew looked at the decanting vessel and noticed how it had once again settled further, it seems several hot acidic water pulls + decanting will effectively exhuast the substrate
mew
huachumancer
the difference between actively filtering a cacti slurry (tea made from powder) vs letting it decant overnight is not comparable.
mew spent a good hour trying various filters and methods to hurry the process of separating a homogenous mixture along, after deciding to let it sit overnight the mixture separated relatively cleanly, mew successfully poured off a pure solution away from the substrate.
all decanted tea goes into another vessel and after the final decant from the slurry it is alowed to sit and go through yet another decant to ensure the solution is pure.
when the second set of decantings are completed, the solution will be filtered first through a towel, then through a cotton t shirt, then through a fine fabric.
mew spent a good hour trying various filters and methods to hurry the process of separating a homogenous mixture along, after deciding to let it sit overnight the mixture separated relatively cleanly, mew successfully poured off a pure solution away from the substrate.
all decanted tea goes into another vessel and after the final decant from the slurry it is alowed to sit and go through yet another decant to ensure the solution is pure.
when the second set of decantings are completed, the solution will be filtered first through a towel, then through a cotton t shirt, then through a fine fabric.
How much water was used for the decanted acidic pulls? Does the water hold alot of cactus slime or is it still pretty viscous?
mew
huachumancer
copious amounts of water like 3-4 gallons per pul (kilo of powder)
it settles to the bottom gallon or so after about an hour, a couple hours later it settles a few more inches but not that much more, a half day left it settle to the bottom half gallon
it settles to the bottom gallon or so after about an hour, a couple hours later it settles a few more inches but not that much more, a half day left it settle to the bottom half gallon
But did the water get snotty or slimey at all? Swim has only done one hot water boil and the tea was really thick and syrupy. Was a huge pain, will never do again. Maybe that was only becuase it was fresh cactus..
Make sure to post some pics of final product if you can!
Make sure to post some pics of final product if you can!
mew
huachumancer
the tea is pretty viscous, but wont be a problem, even with fresh cactus (which is how i did this before)
with 10 or so gallons of viscious tea the reduction will precipitate alot of non actives which can be filtered out or decanted away from, when i get it down to about 1000 ml ill bassify with NaOH. using this base renders the solution less viscous, more watery
the project will be divided into 2 different nps sub projects-
ill pull half with d-limo and half with xylene,
each nps project will have 2 different salting methods-
half of each saturated nps will be salted with a ph of 5-6 hcl water. half the d-limo will be salted via fasipa, half the xylene will be salted with fasa. this will give me 4 resulting extractions
1. a/b - d limo - hcl
2. a/b - d limo - fasipa
3. a/b - xylene - hcl
4. a/b - xylene - fasa
im curious to see whether the xylene or dlimo yields most for hcl, and which fumaric precip works best (fasa/xylene, fasipa/dlimo)
with 10 or so gallons of viscious tea the reduction will precipitate alot of non actives which can be filtered out or decanted away from, when i get it down to about 1000 ml ill bassify with NaOH. using this base renders the solution less viscous, more watery
the project will be divided into 2 different nps sub projects-
ill pull half with d-limo and half with xylene,
each nps project will have 2 different salting methods-
half of each saturated nps will be salted with a ph of 5-6 hcl water. half the d-limo will be salted via fasipa, half the xylene will be salted with fasa. this will give me 4 resulting extractions
1. a/b - d limo - hcl
2. a/b - d limo - fasipa
3. a/b - xylene - hcl
4. a/b - xylene - fasa
im curious to see whether the xylene or dlimo yields most for hcl, and which fumaric precip works best (fasa/xylene, fasipa/dlimo)
You should use stronger hcl water than that... ph 5-6 is barely below nuetral. 5-6 should be your final pH after salting hopefully if your lucky, initially the water should be pH 2-3. Like dg recommended, titration would liekly be the best way to salt, though I have never tried this yet.. next experiment I plan to.
mew
huachumancer
i assume titration is dropping acid into the nps (mixing) then seeing the ph of the salted solution and adding more acid until the salt solution is at a ph of 6, i could be totally wrong considering i have no idea what titration really means
for me ill just salt with a ph of 2-3 and report the ph after each salting
for me ill just salt with a ph of 2-3 and report the ph after each salting
I thought I posted the calculated (ACD labs) pKa distribution chart for mescaline.
all one would need to do is observe the two points/ranges for species A and species B, to get a good general approach for protonation/deprotonation. exceeding both results in excess salts in the aqueous phase.
all one would need to do is observe the two points/ranges for species A and species B, to get a good general approach for protonation/deprotonation. exceeding both results in excess salts in the aqueous phase.
mew
huachumancer
i must have missed that, dyou mind copying n pasting? or linking the thread
someone suggested that for 1000 g cacti with a possible yield of 3% when using 30%muriatic acid all one would need is a total of 15ml mixed into the salting solution. if this seems incorrect please suggest otherwise
someone suggested that for 1000 g cacti with a possible yield of 3% when using 30%muriatic acid all one would need is a total of 15ml mixed into the salting solution. if this seems incorrect please suggest otherwise
I have this peeve...people posting yield numbers when they don't characterize their product.
there's no way of telling how pure it is without, at the very least, conducting a melting point test.
I did this with mescaline sulfate, and obtained 184 - 187 C, one degree off from lit. , which indicated the product was rather pure
so posting yield numbers really means nothing, because the product may have excess salts.
there's no way of telling how pure it is without, at the very least, conducting a melting point test.
I did this with mescaline sulfate, and obtained 184 - 187 C, one degree off from lit. , which indicated the product was rather pure
so posting yield numbers really means nothing, because the product may have excess salts.
I agree with benz here and have personally witnessed salt contamination in final mescaline products. As for the yield, at least in salt-free preparations can we at least agree that "yield" corresponds to ingestible, active alkaloids?benzyme said:
yes.
and if one washes out excess salts, a more accurate assessment of yield can be made.
it looks as if a pH of 6 is all that's needed to completely protonate mescaline, resulting in >99% mescaline salts
and if one washes out excess salts, a more accurate assessment of yield can be made.
it looks as if a pH of 6 is all that's needed to completely protonate mescaline, resulting in >99% mescaline salts
mew..there is no best tek, only effective and ineffective procedures.
one question benz.. When you say pH 6, do you mean pH 6 solution used to salt out mescaline from a solvent, or the pH 6 measured AFTER salting? Because IME the pH will significantly rise after mixing with the non polar, I imagine because mescaline itself is basic. So should one keep salting till the pH AFTER mixing with non-polar comes out at around 6?
endlessness said:
yes.
of course, don't try to measure the pH of a nonpolar solution, you won't get an accurate reading. pH electrodes are only designed and calibrated for use in aqueous solutions
Oh I didnt mean measure the pH of the non-polar.. Just that for example if I make a pH 6 (or 5) solution and mix that with my non polar containing mescaline, that same solution after separated comes out as, say, pH 9... So from what I understand you just have to keep doing until it doesnt come out basic anymore (which often is more than 3x saltings, as people are used to do)
yup
I usually did a few saltings, and ended up with excess salt.. but that's why once you evaporate off the dilute acid, you redissolve in a warm mixture of water and acetone, then freeze precip and filter.
I usually did a few saltings, and ended up with excess salt.. but that's why once you evaporate off the dilute acid, you redissolve in a warm mixture of water and acetone, then freeze precip and filter.