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The threads in the Nursery rock!!

Migrated topic.
The word SHAMAN is just a label to categorize. The definition is ambiguous to say the least.

This thread seems to derail into a fight about the definition of that word. People, go do something more important then arguing how red the color red is!

If the provocations don't stop here I will close this thread... (<- REALLY red!)


Kind regards,

The Traveler
 
I am baffled to say the least...I have the deepest respect for my DMT-world compatriots whether they call themselves shamans or whatever. I probe this question out of curiosity, in order to confront my own judgements and in order to further my own and others' understanding. Am I really the only person who thinks that is a fruitful exercise? I feel sad, shunned and disappointed. I had hoped to find here people who might have the courage to be challenged, to evolve, to laugh, to play.
 
Everyone who feels the power to heal is someone with a gift that should be honored and encouraged. Why turn this into an ego game? What needs to be "exercised" ? A true explorer of mind doesn't need to prove anything but his ability to sacrifice his own little voice for once to spread love and peace.

Don't take offense, it's just that this place is more a safe haven for people tired of senseless battles. That doesn't mean, that different opinions aren't allowed, or having a discussion...it'S just that we have to think about WHY we start certain arguments and how it reflects back to the world we live in.
 
From my point of view there was never an 'argument' or a 'battle' only a fruitful debate and my heart was never absent in my thought processes. I take disagreement in a friendly spirit, happy for others to have differing opinions. The first negative feelings I had about this thread came when I saw others posting about me being 'juvenile', 'provocative', threats to close the thread, complaints about it being irritating, disrespectful etc...I find that to be a form of intolerance far worse than any doubts I have expressed about the term 'shaman'. I don't feel offended, just dismayed and saddened.
Reflecting on why I expressed my concerns in starting this thread with a sprinkle of snideness, I think I felt some frustration at being stuck in the nursery given the long history I have of psychedelic experimentation and even of having already been a member of this forum in the past. I wonder if I might ask then, what are the criteria for liberating souls from this limbo? If there is no transparency or system around that process, then we can only conclude that it is by the whim of an inner clique who select those who agree with their ideas. The reactions I have seen to expressions of differing opinion in this thread would seem to confirm that fear, alas. I am happy to be wrong but for now I sense the onset in myself of a nasty 'thread-burn':(
 
Morphing Interstices said:
Reflecting on why I expressed my concerns in starting this thread with a sprinkle of snideness, I think I felt some frustration at being stuck in the nursery given the long history I have of psychedelic experimentation and even of having already been a member of this forum in the past.
Click to expand...
Seeing as you asked... from what you're posting here, I can imagine other people thinking that you don't have humility, and that you're bitter, which isn't a good attitude... BUT I don't know you so maybe this is just a reaction to something that has gone before, so I'm not passing judgement, just offering some thoughts because you're asking for them. I'm not involved the nursery system, personally I don't like ranks and promotions but I do now think it was a necessary evil to keep the place civil (unlike the rest of the internet), which is tough on genuine new members I can imagine, but worth the wait for the benefit of having a civil forum. Choosing a clearer title for the thread and explaining better what the discussion was meant to be about would probably have helped too.

I'll admit that I also don't really like the word shaman, because to me it means faith healing of physical illnesses and therefore often charlatanism- the procuring of wealth through preying on the superstitions of others- and I agree that using a word outside of context only creates arguments so it's better to use another word. I do often wonder about what people mean when they call themselves shamen... are they actually saying they can heal physical illnesses, connect with the spirit world etc?

Shamanism was fine back when we knew no better, and I have nothing against the shamanic tradition if the shaman no longer claims without evidence to heal physical illness psychically.

However, now we are in the wonderful position of being able to instead draw from traditions such as herbalism, modern medicine, psychology, biology, physics theory and scientific philosophy. Following good practice from any tradition, and rejecting bad. I personally think it would be better for people to refer to themselves as psychenauts if they are concerned with the nature of consciousness and the universe, or herbalists if they are concerned with healing.

Dreamer considers himself merely a 'sunday psychenaut'! :)
 
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