Tips on THH extraction

[Nydex]

Recently I've developed an interest in THH as a substance. I've never tried it, but I've read some pretty interesting things about it, and my curiosity is appropriately tickled. After reading through a few threads on the topic, I realized my chemistry knowledge is nowhere near sufficient to understand all the intricate details, but what became apparent to me is that I have two main options to choose in terms of extracting THH:

1. Start from Syrian Rue
2. Get to the point of having a Harmine + Harmaline mixture
3. Separate them, a la step 17 in the Harmalas Extraction and Separation Guide
4. Take out the Harmine
5. With the remaining Harmaline, follow the THH Reduction tek

I'm not sure what the yield % is in this case, and whether it's a good way of doing it in the first place. The other option I can think of is to use a whole lot of b. caapi leaves instead of Rue seeds as a starting material, and follow a similar path.

Perhaps this is discussed somewhere in sufficient detail, but I failed to find it, so any pointers and tips are much appreciated. Also, if you can share your own opinion and experience with THH (on its own, as well as an admixture to other goodies) that would be great.

Thanks a lot

 

[Jagube]

That's exactly what I do and it's an effective and viable way.

The post-Manske mix usually yields around 6% for me. Probably around 60% that is harmaline. But the separation with ammonia, if you only do one run, is far from perfect.

My resulting "THH" contains quite a bit of harmine, and it partially oxidizes back to harmaline over time.

It has a long half-life and I like to take it on its own sublingually (as FB) or orally in combination with tryptamines. You can probably also vape the FB.

I'd describe the effects as bright, mood-lifting and maybe also sweet in a way.

 

[Nydex]

That's exactly what I do and it's an effective and viable way.

The post-Manske mix usually yields around 6% for me. Probably around 60% that is harmaline. But the separation with ammonia, if you only do one run, is far from perfect.

My resulting "THH" contains quite a bit of harmine, and it partially oxidizes back to harmaline over time.

It has a long half-life and I like to take it on its own sublingually (as FB) or orally in combination with tryptamines. You can probably also vape the FB.

I'd describe the effects as bright, mood-lifting and maybe also sweet in a way.

Hey Jag, good to hear from you! Hope you've been doing fine

Could you please share a bit more details about your process? I assume you follow the Harmalas Extraction and Separation Guide - if so, what step from it is your starting point for the THH reduction? Do you complete the whole process ending up with separate harmine/harmaline FB, and then use the harmaline to convert to THH, or do you have a more efficient process?

It's been a long while since I've done any extractions, but the one time I did follow this tek, I remember the filtration steps took so long I made a mental note to never go for a tek that involves filtration again, which I think there are a few of on the forum already.

 

[Jagube]

Could you please share a bit more details about your process? I assume you follow the Harmalas Extraction and Separation Guide - if so, what step from it is your starting point for the THH reduction? Do you complete the whole process ending up with separate harmine/harmaline FB, and then use the harmaline to convert to THH, or do you have a more efficient process?

I'm good, thanks!

I don't look up any guides for this, I do it from memory.

I PC whole seeds 3-4 times, collect the washes and basify the large, unreduced volume
with lye. Let it settle, decant, filter, dissolve in vinegar, Manske, then separate with drop-wise ammonia using a pH pen with 0.01 pH precision.

I then reduce the harmaline fraction (which is probably 20% harmine) with elemental zinc powder, and precipitate it with ammonia to pH 10, then decant, filter through a coffee paper, and wash it with a dilute ammonia solution.

The filtering is never much of an issue for me.
Decanting reduces the volume that needs to be filtered.
It may take time, but most of it is passive waiting.

 

[Nydex]

I'm good, thanks!

I don't look up any guides for this, I do it from memory.

I PC whole seeds 3-4 times, collect the washes and basify the large, unreduced volume
with lye. Let it settle, decant, filter, dissolve in vinegar, Manske, then separate with drop-wise ammonia using a pH pen with 0.01 pH precision.

I then reduce the harmaline fraction (which is probably 20% harmine) with elemental zinc powder, and precipitate it with ammonia to pH 10, then decant, filter through a coffee paper, and wash it with a dilute ammonia solution.

The filtering is never much of an issue for me.
Decanting reduces the volume that needs to be filtered.
It may take time, but most of it is passive waiting.

Oh so you basify the combined washes only once? Do you just add base, stir, wait a bit, and then add more base until no cloudiness forms when it mixes? Just wondering how you know when you've crashed out all the harmala alks from the combined boils.

I got this 1kg bag of crushed Rue seeds and I really dislike the taste of Rue tea so I want to extract the alks out of it.

 

[Transform]

I'm good, thanks!

I don't look up any guides for this, I do it from memory.

I PC whole seeds 3-4 times, collect the washes and basify the large, unreduced volume
with lye. Let it settle, decant, filter, dissolve in vinegar, Manske, then separate with drop-wise ammonia using a pH pen with 0.01 pH precision.

I then reduce the harmaline fraction (which is probably 20% harmine) with elemental zinc powder, and precipitate it with ammonia to pH 10, then decant, filter through a coffee paper, and wash it with a dilute ammonia solution.

The filtering is never much of an issue for me.
Decanting reduces the volume that needs to be filtered.
It may take time, but most of it is passive waiting.

Do you manage to keep the dissolved zinc in solution with that method?


I've found that by using magnesium ribbon and phosphoric acid, the reduction appears to work - and then, afterwards, addition of ammonia first drops out the magnesium as highly insoluble magnesium ammonium phosphate. Unreacted harmaline shows up next pH-wise, followed by nearly white THH. This needs replication, because my notes are missing

 

[Jagube]

Oh so you basify the combined washes only once? Do you just add base, stir, wait a bit, and then add more base until no cloudiness forms when it mixes? Just wondering how you know when you've crashed out all the harmala alks from the combined boils.

Crushed seeds can be harder to filter after the decoction than whole seeds.

The decoction is so murky that cloudiness is not the best indicator. To see if cloudiness forms, you'd have to wait for it to settle anyway, which takes time.

I just add lye, stir and check the pH. At pH 12 I assume it has mostly crashed out.
Then I let it settle for 24h and decant.

 

[Jagube]

Do you manage to keep the dissolved zinc in solution this way?

I've never used magnesium or phosphoric acid for this.

I roughly follow the reduction protocol that uses zin (VDS?), which I understand keeps the dissolved zinc in solution, and someone has shown it leaves no heavy metals in the product. I also add a bit of ammonium chloride after the reduction and before the basification.

 

[Transform]

add a bit of ammonium chloride after the reduction and before the basification.

Yes, this is said to keep the zinc in solution via complexation and appears to be an essential ingredient for that.

I've never used magnesium or phosphoric acid for this.

Sorry if my syntax was unclear, I never intended to suggest that you had!

 

[Jagube]

Yes, this is said to keep the zinc in solution via complexation and appears to be an essential ingredient for that.

Also, when in doubt, a Manske cycle can clean up the THH product, and some may prefer the HCl form for its stability.