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Today on CNN - treating PTSD with shamans in Iquitos
- Thread starter pau
- Start date
"Although the "gringo shaman" doesn't seem like THAT bad of a guy I think he's a damn con artist and taking advantage of these people. Dudes riding around on a motorcycle."
He is actually well respected. I am sure many other people would have jumped at the chance to be on CNN.
He is actually well respected. I am sure many other people would have jumped at the chance to be on CNN.
DesykaLamgeenie
Rising Star
Intezam said:
What deaths? I haven't heard or read of any deaths involving Ron Wheelock, and did some googling but still see nothing.
Perhaps you're mixing him up with the shaman from the story on CNN's website about a teen's death? If so that was a different shaman at a different center.
Spiralout
Rising Star
People have died when doing ceremonies with other shamans, not Ron.
Jamie, like I said I spoke to rashly. On the whole though it does seem a little strange to me that someone should be able to buy items like a motorcycle by making money off of these plants. I'm definitely not a saint and I'm not saying it's that bad but it does seem like someone should be making just enough to get by and no more if there income is from selling experiences to people. Once again though I am not a saint and this whole society or civilization we live in is so messed up. It all just seems odd to me.
Jamie, like I said I spoke to rashly. On the whole though it does seem a little strange to me that someone should be able to buy items like a motorcycle by making money off of these plants. I'm definitely not a saint and I'm not saying it's that bad but it does seem like someone should be making just enough to get by and no more if there income is from selling experiences to people. Once again though I am not a saint and this whole society or civilization we live in is so messed up. It all just seems odd to me.
DesykaLamgeenie
Rising Star
Just enough to get by?
Why do you think that?
Hear me out - I'm not trying to attack you.
So you're saying that if someone charges a reasonable amount for their services (providing an epic, potentially life-transforming experience on their land) and these services become so popular that enough people begin to come that the person starts making more than just enough to get by...that this person should then reduce their rates in order to not make any more than they need to get by?
In the world we live in, money is exchanged for goods and services. Everyone needs money to live, unless you're living off the land in the wilderness. Just because someone chooses a profession that deals with plants and experiences that many people deem sacred doesn't mean their income should be limited IMO. It just doesn't make any sense to me. I can see what you're saying and I'm pretty sure some people would agree with you...but it seems very twisted to me.
Like he's a priest running a church or something...is that where this comes from? Remnants of religious programs running in the mind? "Deal in the sacred and you must live like a 'man of god'/enlightened being/etc - needing nothing more than food clothes and shelter" - these are all ideas and thoughts programmed into minds by religious institutions, right?
I say let's ditch those ideas.......
People have images of what they believe a shaman is supposed to be - but let's be real - those images are constructed in climate controlled boxes situated a long, long way from the jungle and any traditional shamanic cultures. And even if the indigenous shamans in the jungle were all a certain way - why should every new person moving into the field (of, let's say, modern shamanism) fit into that same mold? (not that there is one)
The only reason I can think of would be because someone may think that for someone to be a 'real' healer, they'd have no desire for things such as motorcycles, etc.
I think that's malarky.
I wouldn't judge someone's credibility/abilities on the account of having material desires.
I'm sure there are healers out there that are just fine without anything like that...but this guy comes from America, and isn't a traditional indigenous healer - he obviously has material desires AND performs ayahuasca ceremonies, and many people will vouch for him and his ceremonies. So who's to say how a 'real healer' would be? We can say how they've been...but the world is always changing; growing; evolving.
Just throwing some ideas out to consider, that's all. Not trying to attack.
Why do you think that?
Hear me out - I'm not trying to attack you.
So you're saying that if someone charges a reasonable amount for their services (providing an epic, potentially life-transforming experience on their land) and these services become so popular that enough people begin to come that the person starts making more than just enough to get by...that this person should then reduce their rates in order to not make any more than they need to get by?
In the world we live in, money is exchanged for goods and services. Everyone needs money to live, unless you're living off the land in the wilderness. Just because someone chooses a profession that deals with plants and experiences that many people deem sacred doesn't mean their income should be limited IMO. It just doesn't make any sense to me. I can see what you're saying and I'm pretty sure some people would agree with you...but it seems very twisted to me.
Like he's a priest running a church or something...is that where this comes from? Remnants of religious programs running in the mind? "Deal in the sacred and you must live like a 'man of god'/enlightened being/etc - needing nothing more than food clothes and shelter" - these are all ideas and thoughts programmed into minds by religious institutions, right?
I say let's ditch those ideas.......
People have images of what they believe a shaman is supposed to be - but let's be real - those images are constructed in climate controlled boxes situated a long, long way from the jungle and any traditional shamanic cultures. And even if the indigenous shamans in the jungle were all a certain way - why should every new person moving into the field (of, let's say, modern shamanism) fit into that same mold? (not that there is one)
The only reason I can think of would be because someone may think that for someone to be a 'real' healer, they'd have no desire for things such as motorcycles, etc.
I think that's malarky.
I wouldn't judge someone's credibility/abilities on the account of having material desires.
I'm sure there are healers out there that are just fine without anything like that...but this guy comes from America, and isn't a traditional indigenous healer - he obviously has material desires AND performs ayahuasca ceremonies, and many people will vouch for him and his ceremonies. So who's to say how a 'real healer' would be? We can say how they've been...but the world is always changing; growing; evolving.
Just throwing some ideas out to consider, that's all. Not trying to attack.
this is silly. Motorcycles are cool.
That CNN piecce was clearly tailored to the "typical american audience", so it did not appeal that much to me. Found it pretty bland as well...but good to see more of Wheelock, he apears genuine to me. But then that "Psychedelic Superstar" :?
According to Harners Shuar Monograph, their shamans are often very rich, because their neighbours need them for both healing and protection. You also don't want to make them angry...so better appease them with material goods.
According to Harners Shuar Monograph, their shamans are often very rich, because their neighbours need them for both healing and protection. You also don't want to make them angry...so better appease them with material goods.
Spiralout
Rising Star
Very well worded desykalamgeenie, I agree with alot of what your saying and at the same time I don't , if that makes any sense. I agree that the guys not bad. I also understand and now agree with you on making whatever money you are making. I still just see our whole world as completely outta whack. I'm kinda to tired to really right anything more intelligent now but yeah :thumb_up: :thumb_dow 8)
Bdevall158
Mind Wanderer
just to throw in my two cents, Iquitios is landlocked, only accessable by plane or boat. so its just way easier to have a motorcycle than a car. most people have scooters, or motorbikes, a motorcycles just the nicest option really. think of getting a car up the amazon river not to many people wanna do that
not to many people wanna do that
zhoro
Rising Star
On CNN today: Can LSD Make You A Billionaire?
Thanks for the update. That was a cool video.
When he talked about people using LSD to design technologies that will change how we experience reality, is it just me or is that very ironic? I mean, LSD is one of the ultimate of such technologies, and all of these byproducts are merely lame substitutes.
When he talked about people using LSD to design technologies that will change how we experience reality, is it just me or is that very ironic? I mean, LSD is one of the ultimate of such technologies, and all of these byproducts are merely lame substitutes.
