Tolerance (Oral DMT vs Psilocybin)

[maranello551]

Why is it that oral DMT tolerance drops so much faster than mushrooms/psilocybin tolerance?

I hear that you can do ayahuasca/pharmahuasca every day or every other day with no decrease in effects. Why is this the case when one must wait about 2 weeks (is it 2 weeks?) for their psilocybin tolerance to drop back down to baseline?

If some consider psilocybin to be orally active DMT then why are the tolerance characteristics so different?

Also, is psilohuasca (psilocybin + MAOI) tolerance the same as plain psilocybin tolerance in drop off rate or different?

Thanks Nexians.

 

[jamie]

I can dose mushrooms 2 days in a row without any noticeable tolerance.

 

[Cavemen]

I can dose mushrooms 2 days in a row without any noticeable tolerance.

ditto

 

[maranello551]

Really? I hear otherwise everywhere else. I hear you need double the next day to reach the same effects and so on. How about 3 days in a row? You guys are really saying there's no mushroom tolerance either?

 

[Sabnock]

Shrooms buildup a tolerance by down-regulation of the Serotonin receptors, which LSD, Mescaline and others do as well, and can cause cross-tolerance with other Psychedelics. Whereas DMT in Ayahuasca causes no tolerance because the Ayahuasca through MAO-A inhibition, is able to up-regulate the Serotonin receptors. Up-regulation = sensitization, down-regulation = de-sensitization. That's why it's an awesome idea to mix Shrooms with the Rue or Caapi as in Psilohuasca, because it allows one to use Shrooms on a more consistent basis apparently, without the tolerance buildup.

 

[maranello551]

Oh. Great to know!

So swim recently took an 8.4g dry cubensis tea and it was excellent and wanted to compare it to and 8.4 with rue (2-4g advice please?) does this mean he can take the psilohuasca the same week with no tolerance, or would the first tea have to have been used with rue too for that to be the case?

 

[Sabnock]

Well, i've never had the pleasure of trying Psilohuasca yet, but i have looked up on it. And apparently when the Shrooms are combined with Rue/Caapi/Pure Harmalas, you'll wanna use a low dose of Shrooms (say 2 to 4 grams depending) as they are potentiated by the MAO-A inhibition and probably CYP liver enzyme inhibition as well. With Rue dosage, i'd personally suggest 4 grams but the average dose is 3 to 3.5 grams, whereas 2 grams might potentiate it a little but idk if it would be of much advantage as you'd want MAO-A to be completely inhibited so that the up-regulation is alot more pronounced. Though anyone feel free to correct me if i'm wrong on any of this.

As for if you can go ahead and take it within a week of taking Shrooms, i personally would go ahead and try, as it should be alright especially due to the MAO-A inhibition.

 

[maranello551]

Well swim's done 5g, 7g and 10g all with rue but doesn't recall the rue dosage used. He believes it to have been around 2 grams. He will try 8.4g with 3-4g rue next time.

When you say within the week is okay considering the maoi, do you mean that a similar dose with tolerance being bootsed by maoi will match the power of an unboosted dose with no tolerance (not what i'm looking for), or that if maoi is used tolerance doesn't count, so the same dose but with maoi will be as strong as it would have been had the previous dose not been taken earlier in the week (what i am looking for)?

 

[Sabnock]

Yes, as long as MAO-A is inhibited, each dose of Shrooms should be just as powerful and there shouldn't be any tolerance or tolerance buildup. That's why it's best to have full MAO-A inhibition rather than partial inhibition, which is why i personally say to go for 4 grams of Rue. When you take Shrooms with Rue, it's supposed to be just like taking DMT with Rue, when it comes to tolerance, which means no tolerance between doses, each dose should have the same amount of force/power/intensity as long as MAO-A is fully inhibited.

 

[adam]

Well swim's done 5g, 7g and 10g all with rue but doesn't recall the rue dosage used. He believes it to have been around 2 grams. He will try 8.4g with 3-4g rue next time.

When you say within the week is okay considering the maoi, do you mean that a similar dose with tolerance being bootsed by maoi will match the power of an unboosted dose with no tolerance (not what i'm looking for), or that if maoi is used tolerance doesn't count, so the same dose but with maoi will be as strong as it would have been had the previous dose not been taken earlier in the week (what i am looking for)?

Ime taking mushrooms and harmalas 5grams of mushrooms with even 1g of rue would annihilate me. A fellow tripper ate some harmalas with a couple grams of mushrooms and bit off a lot more then he could chew. I would be very careful mixing harmalas with mushrooms, and start very small.

Ime it is a delightful combination, but doses more like 1.5g mushrooms, 1-2g rue are more reasonable in combination, and still ime not to be taken lightly.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

Well swim's done 5g, 7g and 10g all with rue but doesn't recall the rue dosage used. He believes it to have been around 2 grams. He will try 8.4g with 3-4g rue next time.

I'd just like to chime in and note that all of these mushroom doses are high, given mushrooms of solid potency and a metabolism that is not an extreme outlier. The idea of combining these dose ranges with harmalas is rather harrowing, even just in thought.

It's possible that the mushrooms in question are not very potent and that could easily explain the numbers presented in this thread. However, in the interest of harm reduction, I would just like to state that for mushrooms of reasonable potency, the doses presented in this thread are astonishingly high and would likely present challenging experiences for even the most seasoned psychonaut.

 

[Sabnock]

I agree with Snozzle.

 

[maranello551]

The mushrooms were good. Various batches (and various strains) used. Once could say swim's "seasoning" is quite up there.

 

[maranello551]

Thanks for all the help good people.

 

[maranello551]

If swim powders his rue (he doesn't get nausea from rue) holds some water in his mouth, pours in the powder and swallows quickly (as to reduce taste), how long should he wait before taking the mushrooms?

 

[joedirt]

Well swim's done 5g, 7g and 10g all with rue but doesn't recall the rue dosage used. He believes it to have been around 2 grams. He will try 8.4g with 3-4g rue next time.

I'd just like to chime in and note that all of these mushroom doses are high, given mushrooms of solid potency and a metabolism that is not an extreme outlier. The idea of combining these dose ranges with harmalas is rather harrowing, even just in thought.

It's possible that the mushrooms in question are not very potent and that could easily explain the numbers presented in this thread. However, in the interest of harm reduction, I would just like to state that for mushrooms of reasonable potency, the doses presented in this thread are astonishingly high and would likely present challenging experiences for even the most seasoned psychonaut.

I'd even say it's likely those mushrooms were not very potent at all. I guarantee you know one I know would take 5g of the Burma strain I have and then consider following that up with 7g or 10g. 3 grams is a +3-4 for me depending on other factors. While I can certainly imagine someone taking 5 maybe even 6 grams of these shrooms once I seriously doubt they would do it again.

So yeah I think bragging about dose like this is kinda childish and honestly I really don't believe most people who claim to have done it.. I took 5 grams once (I'm a light head), I've tripped my whole life and it was overwhelming beyond overwhelming. Completely loss of touch with reality for hours. Fear, panic, paranoia... Really wasn't much good to say about this trip until post peak. Once I kinda came back to my body there was a lot of euphoria because I knew I was alive again... so no I highly doubt someone takes 7 grams of good shrooms and then is like you know I should take 10 next time.. Though there are some strange people out there.

 

[joedirt]

The mushrooms were good. Various batches (and various strains) used. Once could say swim's "seasoning" is quite up there.

Your seasoning isn't "up there"...

Your shrooms are weak if what you say is true to be perfectly blunt about it.

 

[maranello551]

Non bragging involved. Just facts. Sorry, but you're wrong. Again nobody "you know" would. That says nothing about what swim has done. He honestly couldn't care less about your opinion on whether or not he has done so. Count less different strains have been used by him at high doses dozens of times.

Swim was asking for advice about high dosage combos so its totally inappropriate for you to consider talk of high dosage to be "bragging". Do not speak on swim's experience as you know nothing about.

You're response is petty. Please refrain from answering my question if you have nothing constructive to say and are simply insulting in the way you phrase your answered. Swim may not be seasoned in dmt with under 100 trips under the belt, but he would consider triple digit psilocybin sessions to be a decent amount of experience. Feel free to disagree but don't call swim a liar or tell him his mushrooms were weak since he's tried over 10 different strains with no tolerance at high doses. Yes it was scary it times. Life is scary..no reason to not live it.

 

[maranello551]

The mushrooms were good. Various batches (and various strains) used. Once could say swim's "seasoning" is quite up there.

Your seasoning isn't "up there"...

Your shrooms are weak if what you say is true to be perfectly blunt about it.

Not everybody's mind responds to compounds the same way.

 

[joedirt]

Non bragging involved. Just facts. Sorry, but you're wrong. Again nobody "you know" would. That says nothing about what swim has done. He honestly couldn't care less about your opinion on whether or not he has done so.

Your words on a internet page are not facts My problem is your claims fly in the face all most wisdom and could potentially put someone at risk. 10 grams of shrooms with rue

Count less different strains have been used by him at high doses dozens of times.

countless? Yeah you are lying and you know this, but more importantly you are POTENTIALLY putting people at risk with these make believe doses you are talking about.. That is simply not cool.

Swim may not be seasoned in dmt with under 100 trips under the belt...but he would consider triple digit psilocybin sessions to be a decent amount of experience.

So what have you literally tripped every single weekend for years in a row now? Unless you are 60 I doubt the validity of this statement. Your words are not facts and they fly in the face of almost all the information about dosing on the internet and in quite a few of our experiences. And then of course with your 100's of DMT trips on top of that.. and I'm guessing you'e probably had LSD 100's of times as well.. .. The problem with this isn't your exaggerations, but the fact that it could put other people at risk of harm. Simple as that.

Sorry my response came off as abrasive, but everything you say flies dead in the face of all common wisdom and this could "potentially" lead a new comer into extremely dangerous territory. Are your claims possible? yeah sure they are. Just extremely unlikely especially from someone who is asking for advice about tripping...

And you say everyone's minds don't respond the same. Well that is true, but overwhelming data from countless trip reports on the internet suggest that 10grams of shrooms alone would be harrowing, but to mix that with rue which most people estimate to be a 2-3X the potency bump would be like like 20-30grams of shrooms.. Come on man?