Tracing psychedelic patterns with modern technology

[obliguhl]

I'm very interested in psychedelic patterns and their influence in tribal "art". I'd like to propose a way to conservate sub-breakthru patterns using modern technology. It would be pretty simple. All we'd need is:

1 Laser Pointer
1 Videocamera
+ a motion tracking software (http://opencv.willowgarage.com/wiki/ perhaps?)

You'd take a small toke just to trace the edges of the patterns on the wall with your laserpointer. The motion tracking software would paint lines where you moved the laserpointer.
Afterwards you'd have the outline of a pattern you could build upon, adding appropriate colors and such.

What do you think?

 

[Garulfo]

I don't see how you can trace anything (whatever the method) as the patterns are changing so fast.

 

[obliguhl]

I'm talking about very static or slow moving sub-breakthru patterns.

 

[ohayoco]

Someone tried a low-tech version of this with MS paint in another thread. They opened a blank page, smoked, then drew the patterns! I expect it's in the art section somewhere.

 

[obliguhl]

But that wouldn't be accurate & fast enough. With a laserpointer, even a clumsy person without a feel for proportion and without artistic skills could save the patterns on the wall!

 

[SpiceGirl]

Good thoughts, but I too am not sure how well it would work as it's relying on one's cognitive ability to transfer sight into physical motion of some sort, just like in art. We can all do it, but it's not easy for all - though I think some it may fall right into place with. I am the same way with brain computer interfaces, I cannot wait to get my hands on an Emotiv Epoch to experiment with it as I love the mind.

I am a programmer and in the same vein have been trying to find a way to do this sort of thing with modern technology. So far I have come up with something, mayhaps on the Nintendo DS for it's stylus, where there are nothing but tiny tiny pixels, all of which are constantly shifting through the color spectrum. By moving the stylus or dragging the mouse, a path is made through them, entirely made of offsets in time in the color shift. My idea is almost identical to yours from here, you could be able to trace the patterns you see and hopefully this would mimic the energy fields we see.

Regardless it will only be a shy glimpse of what's really there, which is what's keeping me from developing it further. Let's keep the ideas going though, with our collective minds I'm sure something might emerge!

Also the question must be asked, do we really want to do this? This is the sort of thing that may make some of the stuff seem to lose its magic, although as I type this it may also increase our respect and awe of it if we understand it, so it could go both ways, but is a good thing to be concerned of..

Oh, and after an afternoon on mushrooms, SWIM's roommate and her saw many visions in a door, and went to Jerry's Art-o-rama and found huge rolls of white paper and masking tape for sale, we haven't put them up over the walls and doors for drawing yet as SWIM's roommate has withdrawn and become odd (SWIM's roommate has BEEN odd, it was actually a strange week where roommie WASN'T odd when that afternoon happened) but SWIM is finding it hard to not want to put them up now and see where it leads. The plan is to have plenty of assorted tools, and hopefully anyone who voyages will be inspired to inscribe something - will take pictures if anything arises from this!

P.S. On the particular laser pointer technique, what kind of pointer are we talking about? I guess any would work, but some of the really smaller lighter than paperish ones can be awkward to trace straight lines and whatnot, leading me to believe that it would be very inaccurate compared to what was really seen - even a mouse with MS paint is rough with no tactile feedback. Methinks a WACOM pad might be another alternative to try?

 

[۩]

I don't see this as a worth while experiment. I think the reason why it's so hard to convey the precision of the fractal flow is because it's just so perfect. All is reflection.

In the future, I see machines rigged to minds where all of this is digital. I see designated bodies sitting in circles hooked up and traveling the universe. Or maybe out of the universe?

Combine sacred geometry, with all the possible shapes of life (plant, cellular, sentient, symbiot, infinite etc.) in a totally different spectrum of light, curling like sophisticated smoke to the rhythm of the SOUNDS (I don't know how they do it...slinging it from behind the weirdest mechanisms...)

For me, it's more than just what's seen, because what is seen is heard and felt. Not so much tasted, or smelled, though. The intergalactic neurotransmitter sure does cleanse the palette.

I would very much love to see hyperspace transcend into this reality somehow other than direct experience.

P.S. I also think there is a code we humans need to crack from these glyphs

 

[Leap]

I'm pretty sure such a concentrated light source, even the diffused "bounce" from the wall would be quite altering to whatever visuals SWIM would be seeing.

Best bet: quick sketch during comedown. Sketching also helps remember things I find. And I'm not good at sketching.. just the rough idea needs placement.

 

[Phlux-]

Perhaps instead of having the camera and a lazer pointer you could have something that monitors the movement of ones eyes - as in like a pair of spectacles that watch you eye movements and then recreate images(on a pc) based on those movements.
Not sure how the color can be done, perhaps in a similar way to how those finger clamp, mental pc control pickups work.
I saw a documentary once where a similar technology was applied to get an idea how the human brain automatically scans its environment for threats/treats.

 

[۩]

The technology is coming. The digital will weave into our consciousness.
Soon cottonwood will be doing some more research on alkaloid levels and altered states,
but what I'm curious about is what happens frequency-wise to our nervous systems, especially the brain, when in hyperspace.
It feels like some dormant spectrum becomes tangible and makes a connection.
I wonder how one would detect these sounds (which manifest visually) externally.

exciting.

 

[bufoman]

One will not be able to trace the patterns by looking at ones eye movements. One can only tell the general direction they are staring not what they are seeing w/in those confines.

Even sub-break through patterns with open eyes tend to be rapidly changing. W sub-break through many times the more intense visuals are with eyes closed. Another thing I have noticed is that it is very difficult to actually "see" the detail of the patterns on lower doses. It is as if it is an illusion. They are there but can not be analyzed. It is similar to how the blind spot will fill in information but when one tries to analyze the details they can not. Try it next time, on higher doses it becomes a little more clear but there is still a rapidly evolving illusionary nature to the visuals.

It is a good idea but the results are likely to not be very satisfying. Not only the inherent difficulty in the identification of the patterns themselves and there rapid motion, morphing, changing identity. Additionally people have great difficulty even drawing or explaining the patterns. Even artists have trouble although Alex Grey is pretty good. It will be just as hard to trace them as they have a illusive nature as well as their other properties. It just does not seem like it will be effective in practice. Although more characterization of these visuals is needed.

There are studies looking at EEG while people are on hallucinogens. Specific neural regions have been correlated with specific types of categories of the psychedelic experience. See Vollenweider's work. Also a group out of germany has put out several articles in the last year on similar studies.

 

[narmz]

So, a friend of mine once submitted a design for an eye tracking device which was cheap to build to a science fair, and it placed. It went something like this, you have a box with view-holes in it. Inside the box is a slanted two-way mirror. Above the box, and pointing down into it is a video projection, which casts it's image onto the mirror which reflects and is viewable by the user of the device. Opposite the view-hole side, is a camera, pointing in and through the transparent side of the mirror, which records the motion of the users eyes.

If we assume that a person under the influence of pattern inducing substances is able to trace the lines of slow, or even fast moving patterns with their eyes, I think that to some degree the patterns seen could be represented with a rotoscoping technique, the eye patterns being redrawn as lines over the video or images displayed to the user during the experiment.

Just an idea though.

 

[obliguhl]

@SpiceGirl
Thanks for you contribution. The main reason I proposed the laserpointer idea is, that you don't have to somehow "translate" the patterns..with your graphic tablet or nintendo DS Idea, you'd have to memorize the pattern in order to draw it. I want to bypass that.

@slidewinder

I don't see this as a worth while experiment

I want to see the relationship between DMT and traditional tribal patterns ...
Another idea would be to create a huge database of patterns and look for similiaritys

@Leap

I'm pretty sure such a concentrated light source, even the diffused "bounce" from the wall would be quite altering to whatever visuals SWIM would be seeing.

Good point! One would have to try this.

@bufoman

One will not be able to trace the patterns by looking at ones eye movements. One can only tell the general direction they are staring not what they are seeing w/in those confines.

Are you sure? I thought this to be a good idea. What about head movement?

Even sub-break through patterns with open eyes tend to be rapidly changing.

Not true with Swim!

If we assume that a person under the influence of pattern inducing substances is able to trace the lines of slow, or even fast moving patterns with their eyes,

Thanks narmz!

 

[SpiceGirl]

@SpiceGirl
Thanks for you contribution. The main reason I proposed the laserpointer idea is, that you don't have to somehow "translate" the patterns..with your graphic tablet or nintendo DS Idea, you'd have to memorize the pattern in order to draw it. I want to bypass that.

Ah, I understand - I do not think one would have to memorize if they traced it in real time as they saw it - much like a blind contour drawing. If I understand correctly they will be essentially doing the same with either method - the eyes will have to trace the object. Due to the way the eyes work, I also think the results will be rather inaccurate - requiring anti-aliasing or manual adjusting after the fact, which could be tainted by memory. The eye is rather accurate however and so it may not be that bad - but after testing around with the Wiimote and such, the 'sensor' of the eye would have to be just as accurate, and us humans really don't think on the same scale as those sensors - they are practically never reading the same value twice, fluctuations in the ground can be detected with them sitting on a table (the designer of the Sonic the Hedgehog games is actually working on a game utilizing this concept: you leave the Wiimote on the box of the game and tap different spots of the box).

Aside from that, one would have to find a way of recording the actual perceptual focus of vision of the human, which, if done, would be rather groundbreaking in and of itself - so I don't think that route will work, although it would provide 100% accuracy (up to however they perceived it).

The shifting nature as well might be difficult, although SWIM believes she could still draw some particular scenes she has seen. This is of course relying on memory. Remember also that in one sense, memory is all that we have. We are perceiving instances of reality with a slight delay from when they happen, very very slight, but still a delay and I'm pretty sure it's imperceptible to us, but the brain is mapping things - when we look at a face studies show we only need glances at two differing fixation points to fully "scan" in the understand the face for bare recognition purposes - don't have the link but I'm sure google can help there.

Don't think you will, but just incase, know I'm only trying to help see this project see the light - not trying to shoot down any dreams or anything. The laserpointer for tracing isn't a bad idea at all and can be implemented with just a camera and the laserpointer and a long aperture time if done properly. Check out instructables.com or youtube I'm sure will even have videos of people making art with this. The long aperture will capture any light and it will all end up in the photo with intensity related to duration of light (hold it in one spot or move slower and it will be stronger). Again though, while things may different for SWIY, for SWIM the nature of the patterns would be changed before a trace could really be completed - this may change when even further out, but SWIM is not even sure she'll be able to point in any shape or form when she makes it to that point!

 

[Delta-9-THC]

I don't think you cold get anything worthwhile really. They are to precise and detailed to be reproduced so quickly and with such a clumsy tool as a laser pointer. It would be very difficult to create straight or accurately curved lines with it.

As others have said. I think the only way to get it to be exact a new kind of technology would be needed so we could store these images in a digital form. Reminds me of the movie Paprika (anime) where they have a machine that allows you to store your dreams and also allows a "dream therapist"to enter your dreams and interact with it.

They already have technology that can allow brainwaves to be translated into digital information with electrodes being placed in the brain. One man who had a disease that caused him to lose all control of his body had one placed in his brain that allowed him to move a mouse pointer around a screen and direct things. Hopefully one day we can somehow learnt o translate impulses into images.

 

[bufoman]

How could you trace the patterns by looking at ones eye movements. One does not even have to move their eyes at all for the patterns to be present or to observe them. The patterns are w/in the field of vision, tracing them with your eyes and recording the eye movements would be difficult and lead to inconclusive results. It would be like asking someone to trace a tree by moving their eyes and then trying to recreate the tree based on their eye movements. Maybe but good luck.

The visuals have an elusive nature this is why they are difficult to explain and recreate by drawing. Many great artists have tripped and not been able to recreate their experiences (Alex Grey is damn close). I think maybe with experience and high doses one can become slightly more efficient at analyzing these visuals although SWIM has been trying for years with little luck. It is difficult, they are not what you think, they tend to be highly complex and mysterious. Sure one can identify certain attributes like a face or a egyptian pharaoh like god... but the details are more difficult to pin point. Next time try to even remember the archetypes and draw them, SWIY will likely find this is very difficult if not impossible.

Regarding any simple patterns, which can and do appear there is no need to trace them with a lazer pointer especially if as SWIY says they are not changing. Just look at them and describe them into a tape recorder or draw them if they are not changing just look at it and sketch it. I think however SWIY will realize that this is not possible even if it is not rapidly changing. The illusive nature is built into the experience, it involves much more than just visual experience, meaning, understanding, linguistic imprints... are all involved in this...

 

[narmz]

How could you trace the patterns by looking at ones eye movements. One does not even have to move their eyes at all for the patterns to be present or to observe them. The patterns are w/in the field of vision, tracing them with your eyes and recording the eye movements would be difficult and lead to inconclusive results. It would be like asking someone to trace a tree by moving their eyes and then trying to recreate the tree based on their eye movements. Maybe but good luck.

You've never watched the swirling of your ceiling with such intensity that your eyes begin to trace the movements of certain shapes and transformations? Sure, they occur without the need to move ones eyes, but this does not mean that it doesn't effect the nature with which ones eyes move, or that with guidance, it can't. If what you are looking for is a representation of geometric or flow-type patterns, this method would yield results representational of those patterns, given the participants willingness to involve themselves. If you are looking for visual representations of visions, I think you are thinking of something other than patterns.

I am curious to know if anyone has ever felt patterns, without seeing them. This is a common occurrence for SWIM, and he has drawn them on many occasions, has quite a collection going. I would be interested to compare drawings of felt patterns made by different people to see if there are similarities.

 

[۩]

narmz,
everything is vibrating. everything has a frequency, or compilation of frequencies. when you realize this your senses become one that spans through the spectrum. rainbows fading into rainbows. entire being a sensor for the cosmic light of consciousness, symphoniously.
Personally, I always close my eyes and physically look up when in trance. sometimes they flicker, but most of the time they're just looking up. (which is a physical trigger in some meditations)

 

[polytrip]

I think, if you would want to re-create the patterns (i'm talking open eye visuals here), you ought to analyze the human visual system (or maybe even just a proposed visual system) down to basic functions. Than you would have to try different variations in alterations of the scale in wich some functions occur in relation to eachother.

For instance; if you would analyze the visual system down to a system that sees colours and a system that sees contrasts, you could try whether you get something that looks DMT-like by varying in the relation between those two systems; one of the two slightly delayed compared to the other or slightly spatially shifted. The more it looks DMT-like, the more you know you're looking in the right direction so you know wich type of alteration you need to specify.

You need a computer to do this ofcourse.

Or you should just practice your paintig or drawing skills a lot, like M.C.Escher and Alex Grey did.