-
Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).
Trichocereus spachianus,Trichocereus Macrogonus and Stenocereus hystrix
- Thread starter kemist
- Start date
Yeah, google's not giving much away on this one.
Ginkgo
Rising Star
Yeah, very little scientific experiments have been done. All I can find are experiments with horses, and some for dogs and rats. It seems the focus has been to determine if horse food containing Hordenine is bad for the animals. The research has found that the heart contracts with more force, and increases blood pressure and volume of blood flow. This indicates stimulant action, something backed up by the fact that Hordenine stimulates release of norepinephrine. For this reason, it has been used in bodybuilding. All in all, it seems pretty uninteresting alone.
kemist
John
So it could be possible psychoactive. Horses are not able to tell us , how hard they tripping. Remember article where lsd was applied to rats and only effects were slight increasing of pulse and blood pressure. Somebody should try it. Nobody ever tried stenocerus hystrix? No comments about hordenine in trout's notes ? What is the other alk in pedro and peruvianus. This alk can be noticed about 20 mins after ingestion and seems to wear off after 2-3 hours. ILPT is cacti newbie and have to say he love them very much. He is very interesting in that antibiotic stuff in this lovely plants. It seems to be quite powerfull natural antibioticum.
Kannamate
Rising Star
I don't know if hordenine is psychoactive some people say pellotine which is also in peyote is a mild sedative. Why do you want to try these cacti they probably have lower amounts of mescaline than the common psychoactive trichs you know many other cacti have mescaline, but in worthless amounts like opuntia containing .01% for example.
kemist
John
Surely mescaline is a good stuff, but the other alk. is mildly psychoactive and trip doesn`t last so long Seems to be ideal candidate for afterwork chill out.Kannamate said:
Just need to find cact high in it and try to isolated this goodness.
After work he stays usually about four hours awake to relax and chill out, then go to bed. Mescaline is undesirable for this purpose
69ron
Esteemed member
I know for a fact that San Pedro has active alkaloids in it other than mescaline which are psychoactive.
You can do an alkaloid extraction on San Pedro. If your alkaloids are hydrochlorides then you can separate the mescaline from the other alkaloids by dissolving the alkaloid mix in acetone. The acetone will only dissolve the non-mescaline alkaloids. You can then filter out the mescaline HCl, evaporate, and you're left with the other alkaloids.
There are at least two non-mescaline alkaloids present that are active that are soluble in acetone as hydrochlorides. One is a sedative with effects similar to harmaline, and it is psychoactive, very fast acting, and of short duration. The other alkaloid is a stimulant similar to mescaline, and actually a very beautiful experience.
When you take the acetone soluble hydrochlorides from San Pedro, after the mescaline is removed, you can very distinctly feel two separate peaks from two separate alkaloids present. The first peak is from the harmaline like sedative and the second peak is from the mescaline like stimulant. Both are psychoactive.
The mescaline like stimulant is shorter acting than mescaline with a duration of about 4 hours. It peaks after about 3 hours. It’s very euphoric. But SWIM has not experienced visual effects from it. Maybe at higher doses it has visual effects.
The sedative definitely has visual effects, but they are very different from mescaline. The sedative only lasts about 2 hours or so if I recall correctly. It peaks after about 1 hour.
So I think this is a worthwhile venture. The stimulant, whatever it is, is very pleasant and SWIM would love to be able to isolate it from the sedative. The sedative seems to have MAOI activity like harmaline does. In tests SWIM performed using the non-mescaline alkaloids taken along with LSA, the LSA peaked after 1 hour and was about 5-10 times stronger than it should have been, which is exactly when the sedative peaks, so I believe the harmaline like sedative is also a powerful MAOI, more powerful than harmaline.
You can do an alkaloid extraction on San Pedro. If your alkaloids are hydrochlorides then you can separate the mescaline from the other alkaloids by dissolving the alkaloid mix in acetone. The acetone will only dissolve the non-mescaline alkaloids. You can then filter out the mescaline HCl, evaporate, and you're left with the other alkaloids.
There are at least two non-mescaline alkaloids present that are active that are soluble in acetone as hydrochlorides. One is a sedative with effects similar to harmaline, and it is psychoactive, very fast acting, and of short duration. The other alkaloid is a stimulant similar to mescaline, and actually a very beautiful experience.
When you take the acetone soluble hydrochlorides from San Pedro, after the mescaline is removed, you can very distinctly feel two separate peaks from two separate alkaloids present. The first peak is from the harmaline like sedative and the second peak is from the mescaline like stimulant. Both are psychoactive.
The mescaline like stimulant is shorter acting than mescaline with a duration of about 4 hours. It peaks after about 3 hours. It’s very euphoric. But SWIM has not experienced visual effects from it. Maybe at higher doses it has visual effects.
The sedative definitely has visual effects, but they are very different from mescaline. The sedative only lasts about 2 hours or so if I recall correctly. It peaks after about 1 hour.
So I think this is a worthwhile venture. The stimulant, whatever it is, is very pleasant and SWIM would love to be able to isolate it from the sedative. The sedative seems to have MAOI activity like harmaline does. In tests SWIM performed using the non-mescaline alkaloids taken along with LSA, the LSA peaked after 1 hour and was about 5-10 times stronger than it should have been, which is exactly when the sedative peaks, so I believe the harmaline like sedative is also a powerful MAOI, more powerful than harmaline.
kemist
John
Very nice observation 69Ron.
The short acting MAOI like alks is exactly what he looking for. It`s bit different from harmine. It hasn`t had the sickening feeling as harmine at higher dose has. It was more enjoyable with open eyes(nice visual distortion) when eyes closed everything was almost pitch black and ILPT thought he gonna fall asleep and didn`t wanna risk it. On higher dose of harmine he prefer to close eyes and enjoy that dreamy visions without falling asleep. It`s sedative indeed and could be MAOI but somehow more enjoyable then harmalas.
He hasn`t notice the other stimulating alkaloid you mentioned, but he tried it only twice and heat was used both in jelly tek and in your limo tek. As you already mention elsewhere, most of the mescal turn to something sedating when heat is used and that was what`s happened. He has long sedative trip (still nice) nailed to chair or bed
So which ones alkaloids ar these, what`s their chemical name, what do you think, or suggest?
The short acting MAOI like alks is exactly what he looking for. It`s bit different from harmine. It hasn`t had the sickening feeling as harmine at higher dose has. It was more enjoyable with open eyes(nice visual distortion) when eyes closed everything was almost pitch black and ILPT thought he gonna fall asleep and didn`t wanna risk it. On higher dose of harmine he prefer to close eyes and enjoy that dreamy visions without falling asleep. It`s sedative indeed and could be MAOI but somehow more enjoyable then harmalas.
He hasn`t notice the other stimulating alkaloid you mentioned, but he tried it only twice and heat was used both in jelly tek and in your limo tek. As you already mention elsewhere, most of the mescal turn to something sedating when heat is used and that was what`s happened. He has long sedative trip (still nice) nailed to chair or bed
So which ones alkaloids ar these, what`s their chemical name, what do you think, or suggest?
69ron
Esteemed member
kemist said:
I wish I knew. All I know is that they are there in San Pedro and are distinctively different from each other and different from mescaline. Achuma and Peyote, and Torch to a lesser degree, also have other active alkaloids. There’s little information on their effects in humans. This is work that needs to be done.
The stimulant present in San Pedro has stimulant effects very similar to mescaline, but its shorter acting. I bet at higher doses its psychedelic and will produce a 4 hour mescaline-like trip. It would be great to isolate it and test it out. Without the ability to remove the sedative from it, SWIM doesn’t want to take a much larger dose of it.
skoobysnax
Rising Star
Today at the hardware store I spy a tiny 4"trichocereus macrogonus amongst a sea of other 4" varieties of decorative cultivatars. They all had these weird straw flowers glued to them. :surprised It was the only one there and I had literally only stopped to check prices on patio umbrellas.
Chances are those are B. Hertlingia labeled as "T.Macro" Altmans has been releasing those everywhere.
I heard that if T. Peruvianus turns out to be T. Macro, it will become T. Macro because it was discovered first.
I heard that if T. Peruvianus turns out to be T. Macro, it will become T. Macro because it was discovered first.
skoobysnax
Rising Star
I will put a pic up in a day or so. Looks pretty dang close to the peruvianus i have but slightly more blueish. Looking at b hertlingia images mine doesn't have the same diamond shaped pattern.
bezevo
Established member
Last summer I was at HOME DEPOT and I bought a 4" cactus labeled Trichocereus Macrogonus from Altmans.
This cactus had those crappy pastel fake paper flowers Hot Glued to it .
The globs of glue were just stuck on the spines so it was easy to remove the fake flowers .
How do I tel if it is really Trichocereus Mcrogonus Or if it's mislabeled B. Hertlingia??
This cactus had those crappy pastel fake paper flowers Hot Glued to it .
The globs of glue were just stuck on the spines so it was easy to remove the fake flowers .
How do I tel if it is really Trichocereus Mcrogonus Or if it's mislabeled B. Hertlingia??
