Gee this is a very interesting thread i am fasinated to see the results.
Who would of thought turmeric :d
Much Peace
Who would of thought turmeric :d
Much Peace
-
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Turmeric/curcumin as a MAOI with DMT
- Thread starter prottel
- Start date
Yeah, we should put up a list of all possible sources of maois and try them all out systematically with dmt. Then we could put up detailed results on the dmt-nexus wiki.
Dagger said:
Awesome idea :d
Much Peace
Nice! Could someone pick up the one that includes bioperine. Supposedly it can increase the bioavailability by about 20 times.Leap said:I'm definitely considering picking up some tumeric after work today and trying it. Hope for the best.I'll post here as soon as I know anything.
Thanks for the heads up LLB. Still worth considering imho.
Leap
Rising Star
Okay, for giggles, I tried it.
Now, I didn't take nearly enough to be a "real" MAOI dose which would be well into the thousands. I took two extract pills, each with 500mg. Now, I did not expect much, as more reading and searching around made it obvious that this is certainly not the next Rue or Caapi. But everyone knew that right?
Anyhow, the spice came up like normal, blasted me to oblivion for few minutes, and then I came down. The only thing I can say about it that was at all different was the come down. Instead of lasting about 10 minutes (altered mind state with an extreme ability to zone into deep thought about anything), it lasted roughly 30 minutes. In addition to normal come down effects, I felt as if I was in full control of my mind state. If I thought "I am happy," I would grin like an idiot and chuckle. If for any reason I would bring up thoughts of fear or sadness, mainly wondering if I was going to ever be 'normal' again, I would suddenly feel very upset and want to wake up my wife for help.
If there was any real effect, it wasn't "getting off" for 3 hours. And something tells me that no one is eating a gram or more of Turmeric in their mum's cooking. From what I've read, would I be mistaken by thinking that St. John's Wort would be a much better "Walmart" MAOI?
In any case, you'd have to take a crap ton of either of these to get the desired effect.
EDIT: And yes, it is entirely possible that I was in just the right state-of-mind to happen to have a 30 minute come down. Though 30 minutes is on the outer limits of a smoked dose.
Now, I didn't take nearly enough to be a "real" MAOI dose which would be well into the thousands. I took two extract pills, each with 500mg. Now, I did not expect much, as more reading and searching around made it obvious that this is certainly not the next Rue or Caapi. But everyone knew that right?
Anyhow, the spice came up like normal, blasted me to oblivion for few minutes, and then I came down. The only thing I can say about it that was at all different was the come down. Instead of lasting about 10 minutes (altered mind state with an extreme ability to zone into deep thought about anything), it lasted roughly 30 minutes. In addition to normal come down effects, I felt as if I was in full control of my mind state. If I thought "I am happy," I would grin like an idiot and chuckle. If for any reason I would bring up thoughts of fear or sadness, mainly wondering if I was going to ever be 'normal' again, I would suddenly feel very upset and want to wake up my wife for help.
If there was any real effect, it wasn't "getting off" for 3 hours. And something tells me that no one is eating a gram or more of Turmeric in their mum's cooking.
From what I've read, would I be mistaken by thinking that St. John's Wort would be a much better "Walmart" MAOI? In any case, you'd have to take a crap ton of either of these to get the desired effect.
EDIT: And yes, it is entirely possible that I was in just the right state-of-mind to happen to have a 30 minute come down. Though 30 minutes is on the outer limits of a smoked dose.
Thanks for the report leap! But did try a pill that includes bioperine? That is supposed to increase the bioavailability of curcumin by up to 20 times! That might make a difference.
Leap
Rising Star
Hmmm, no bioperine in my supplement. Unless they like to hide that info somewhere other than the label. I'll take that into consideration in future experiments.
Oh, it should probably be mentioned that the smoking method was tinfoil, with a pipe stem as the intake. Ghetto fabulous, I know, and I'm working out a better method soon. However, my point is, anyone that has smoked using tinfoil knows it can be an art to get a breakthrough dose. This was the easiest breakthrough ever using tinfoil. So either I'm getting good at it, or there was some outer effect. I want to think I'm just that good.
I'll take that into consideration in future experiments.Oh, it should probably be mentioned that the smoking method was tinfoil, with a pipe stem as the intake. Ghetto fabulous, I know, and I'm working out a better method soon. However, my point is, anyone that has smoked using tinfoil knows it can be an art to get a breakthrough dose. This was the easiest breakthrough ever using tinfoil. So either I'm getting good at it, or there was some outer effect.
I want to think I'm just that good.Only thing to do is to try it again. If it turns out that the turmeric in fact increased the effect, then the next step would be to increase the turmeric dose. Turmeric+bioperine would be the way to go I think. You could also try doing 4 pills of turmeric and see if it makes a difference compared to 2.
Yeah, but it is good to keep an open mind. I mean, if everyone never tried out anything, how would we find out about new stuff? The nexus is about exploring the unknown! :dLeap said:That's what I was thinking. Luckily I'm so incredibly skeptical about this that we shouldn't have to worry about any placebo effects..
Chances are it won't work, but what if it does? You would be a pioneer.
Eclectic
Rising Star
I was looking through wikipedia and saw curcumin as an MAO-A inhibitor.. I searched "tumeric as an MAOI" on google and got this topic. I'm proud of the nexus.. A community of thinkers..
With that said, I'd wonder what doses would be right for potentiation.. I mean, if it's found scientifically to be an MAO-A inhibitor, there should be some level of it that activates DMT.. It wouldn't be an MAO-A inhibitor if it wasn't, I'd assume. I'd like to try some of this with smoked doses.. I might try a passionflower tumeric combo, see if I can get the combination of weaker MAOI's to give a better experience on-the-cheap.. They're pretty readily available.. it'd be cool if tumeric would work.
With that said, I'd wonder what doses would be right for potentiation.. I mean, if it's found scientifically to be an MAO-A inhibitor, there should be some level of it that activates DMT.. It wouldn't be an MAO-A inhibitor if it wasn't, I'd assume. I'd like to try some of this with smoked doses.. I might try a passionflower tumeric combo, see if I can get the combination of weaker MAOI's to give a better experience on-the-cheap.. They're pretty readily available.. it'd be cool if tumeric would work.
Leap
Rising Star
I've thought about some combination of St. John's Wort and Turmeric to possibly raise the effectiveness of Rue without using more Rue.
According to Nobunoni on tribe, it would take 150 mg/kg to be effective. Thus, for a 70 kg person, it would take 10.5 grams of turmeric to be effective.
According to Nobunoni on tribe, it would take 150 mg/kg to be effective. Thus, for a 70 kg person, it would take 10.5 grams of turmeric to be effective.
Wikipedia sais that Curcumin, Curcuma's active ingredient, indeed is a MAOI.
"A Selective MAOI in Type MAO-A" Wikipedia sais. Check it here, under the header "Potential medical uses":
Curcumin - Wikipedia
What is also a very interresting fact is that SWIM is also very active on a Lucid Dream Forum ( being a fanatic Lucid Dreamer) and has noticed many topics of dreamers stating that Curcuma/Turmeric before bedtime gives them very clear, vivid and well remembered dreams.
Very interresting if you keep in mind the theory that nocturnal dreaming might be caused by a massive endogenous DMT release. If taking a MAOI inceases dream vividness and length it indeed seems to suggest dreams are made of DMT, since MAOIs are known to incredibly potentiate and lengthen DMT.
To test the MAOI-activity of Turmeric I guess SWIM should try a turmeric Tea(disgusting and insolvable, lol) 15 minutes before eating magic truffels ( underground growing psilocybe's) to see if it's effects are potentiated/lengthened. Very interresting indeed, this Turmeric.
"A Selective MAOI in Type MAO-A" Wikipedia sais. Check it here, under the header "Potential medical uses":
Curcumin - Wikipedia
What is also a very interresting fact is that SWIM is also very active on a Lucid Dream Forum ( being a fanatic Lucid Dreamer) and has noticed many topics of dreamers stating that Curcuma/Turmeric before bedtime gives them very clear, vivid and well remembered dreams.
Very interresting if you keep in mind the theory that nocturnal dreaming might be caused by a massive endogenous DMT release. If taking a MAOI inceases dream vividness and length it indeed seems to suggest dreams are made of DMT, since MAOIs are known to incredibly potentiate and lengthen DMT.
To test the MAOI-activity of Turmeric I guess SWIM should try a turmeric Tea(disgusting and insolvable, lol) 15 minutes before eating magic truffels ( underground growing psilocybe's) to see if it's effects are potentiated/lengthened. Very interresting indeed, this Turmeric.
DiMiTriX
Rising Star
this is from drugs forum..
If you mix 2 parts ground turmeric with 1 part ground black pepper and put it in a capsule you can feel the curcumin.
...
When using black pepper to boost the effects of curcumin orally by 2000%, you only need 400 mg of black pepper (about 1/4 tsp). Black pepper usually contains at least 5% piperine, and often more. All you need is 20 mg of piperine to boost the effects of curcumin orally. 400 mg of black pepper at 5% piperine contains 20 mg of piperine.
....
Maybe if curcumin is combined with piperine orally it can activate DMT orally. But without piperine, I'm pretty sure it's not going to work unless you take a ton of curcumin. Without piperine, you need to take 20 times as much curcumin. So if say 500 mg was enough for MAOI activity with 20 mg of piperine, then on it’s own you’d need 10 grams of curcumin! So, I wouldn’t even bother using it orally without piperine.
Duration
The effects only last about 4hrs tops. So it is necessary to keep re-dosing if trying to achieve some kind of long-term therapeutic effect.
Quote:
. from my experiences, 1-2 huge spoonfuls of Turmeric powder + 1 small spoonfull of ground up black pepper really helped me with SA. of course, its a very Weak MAOI...but it also has neuroprotective properties, and is an NMDA antagonist.
It helped me alot last school year, the downside being, the effects only last about 3-4 hours after dosing. So every 4 hours you have to re-dose (swallow more of the turmeric powder, i chugged it down with milk, it wasn't too bad)
Experiences
The following is simply a compiling of various reports in effort to describe the effects of Curcumin (Tumreric). These reports largely do not reflect in a therapeutic sense, rather just "feelings" or effects noted.
Quote:
I tried a single dose of Curcumin several days ago. 300mg Solgar brand Tumeric from Whole Foods, 95% Curcumin. Lunchtime dose.
It was a bad day to start with. The hours after the dose, it just got worse. I felt more tired, more depressed. Any bit of forced energy or forced motivation I had just evaporated into dark survival. I just couldn't wait for bed to get it over with.
Oddly, I couldn't fall asleep. I always sleep good. I tossed and tossed. It felt similar to that serotonin/norepinephrine/dopamine stimulation I have felt on various psych drugs. After 4 hours, I finally gave up and took a half of a Benadryl. It put me to sleep in about half an hour.
The next morning took me by surprise. I woke feeling a kind of refreshed "it's a new chapter" kind of feeling, the same thing I felt after my first dose of the MAOI antidepressant Parnate.
About halfway through the morning I felt warm, energetic, and clear headed. My weak rubbery legs had bounce and energy. Pains from Lyme disease were nearly gone. My brain fog turned into crystal clear seeing and thinking. Sharp. My appetite was down. There was absolutely no doubt Curcumin had an astounding effect that took me totally by surprise.
All over the net it is claimed there are no side effects. I found that laughable. My side effects were: Appetite supression; anxiety (the chest/belly kind); and insomnia. My friend at another forum said insomnia was the side effect he couldn't handle. I can see why.
The benefits though were huge. Depression went from a monster to a whimper overnight. Energy went from the dumps to the clouds. Fog totally vanished. Instead of avoiding people and conversations, I was actually approaching people and conversations.
I am thinking of retrying it, but starting at a much lower dose and working my way upward, with customized home-made doses.
One-time fluke or real potential? Dunno. We'll see. All I can tell you is that nothing, absolutely nothing, out of dozens of herbs and dozens of psychiatric meds, have impacted me in such a positive way so rapidly and unexpectedly, except for Parnate. It is curious to see that one of the claimed actions of Curcumin is a MAO inhibitor. That's what Parnate is.
Back to your original question, one study I found showed that Curcumin enhanced the effects of subclinical doses of Prozac and a couple other antidepressants. Based on that, it would appear to me it is safe to combine with SJW. If you do it, I would go into knowing that the hype on the net about no side effects is a bit negligent in my opinion.
Quote:
Turmeric Root (active ingredient = curcumin) it is an MAO-A inhibitor. However, it is not absorbed by the body, unless you take it with Piperine (Black Pepper, the stuff in your cupboard hopefully) . from my experiences, 1-2 huge spoonfuls of Turmeric powder + 1 small spoonfull of ground up black pepper really helped me with SA. of course, its a very Weak MAOI...but it also has neuroprotective properties, and is an NMDA antagonist.
----
Quote:
I took curcumin for years for pain in my joints. Eventually, those pains went away. So I stopped the curcumin. After this, I realized during this time, I didn't experience random episodes of depression. After I stopped supplementing with it, those depressive episodes came back. I little research on pubmed shows that Curcumin is a potent antidepressant. It is also a great anti-inflammatory, immune modulator, is neuro-protective and many other functions.
Curcumin is also used for patients with Alzheimers disease as it reduces the amyloid plaques that develpop in alzheimers patients. We've found in this forum that things that help alzheimers patients, like lecithin and choline are also beneficial to us. Curcumin also acts as an MAO-B inhibitors. This is what breaks down serotonin and other neuro-transmitters in the brain. Curcumin increases glutathione in the brain....Also, curcumin is typically use against cancer...Curcumin can boost the immune system and has anti viral, bacterial and fungal properties.
----
Quote:
One size 000 capsule orally is enough for a smooth slightly dreamy effect for SWIM. It's very mild though. Others might need a few capsules. But it definitely works orally this way. The effects sort of remind SWIM of marijuana, or maybe like passionflower at this dose. It's very mild.
----
Quote:
Turmeric is indeed active and very much so, I currently have a medium intense foggy, dreamy state with a rather good body euphoria after eating four 000 capsules with turmeric and two with pepper. I also have a small headache and a bit stomach upset, nothing intense, but I think my next trial will be with an extraction.
----
Quote:
The tincture was ~35ml and SWIM took 5-6ml sublingually. it did not burn like many sublinguals and tasted like turmeric.
after 15 minutes SWIM spat it out and after 20 he felt "something"
At present he is at t=+1:20 and he is very effected. No question this is beyond placebo.
The effect is much like syrian rue (the only harmala he has experienced) except it seems to be stimulating as opposed to sedating.
SWIM started to sit down to watch TV and is pretty on edge. This dose is very strong in fact.
Despite no tracers or visuals (SWIM never got those with rue either) colors and lights are very bright/brilliant.
It took SWIM a ridiculous amount of time to write this down, his mind is very effect and he is beaming.
SWIM plans on testing the combination with DMT and SWIM's roomie will test it with weed (SWIM hates weed) and we'll update later.
Cheers
Quote:
There is no doubt in SWIM's mind this is beyond placebo, 3 cases of effects on very reliable sources.
if SWIM wasn't so very high on mescaline (oops) he would love to pursue this further and he is quite confident this will turn out to be a great combination for MANY drugs.
It is a stimulating MAOI, kinda like THH and SWIM hasn't stop hearing about the wonders of THH.
Negative Experiences
This is a good example why MAOIs should not be messed with particular other drugs.
Quote:
id be really careful, u dont wanna end up throwing up in the toilet for 3 hours like me. i took a reversible MAO-A inhibitor (curcumin) with Effexor and got really really bad serotonin syndrome. SS stinks.
....
but not only did i take a TON of Curcumin (MAO-A inhibitor), i took it with piperine which potentiates Curcumin greatly, and also has weak MAO inhibiting properties. And i took that stuff with Effexor...but then i also took 3 capsules of Bacopa Monniera Extract...after doing alot of research, it seems Bacopa might be an unselective serotonin agonist. no wonder i got SS.
If you mix 2 parts ground turmeric with 1 part ground black pepper and put it in a capsule you can feel the curcumin.
...
When using black pepper to boost the effects of curcumin orally by 2000%, you only need 400 mg of black pepper (about 1/4 tsp). Black pepper usually contains at least 5% piperine, and often more. All you need is 20 mg of piperine to boost the effects of curcumin orally. 400 mg of black pepper at 5% piperine contains 20 mg of piperine.
....
Maybe if curcumin is combined with piperine orally it can activate DMT orally. But without piperine, I'm pretty sure it's not going to work unless you take a ton of curcumin. Without piperine, you need to take 20 times as much curcumin. So if say 500 mg was enough for MAOI activity with 20 mg of piperine, then on it’s own you’d need 10 grams of curcumin! So, I wouldn’t even bother using it orally without piperine.
Duration
The effects only last about 4hrs tops. So it is necessary to keep re-dosing if trying to achieve some kind of long-term therapeutic effect.
Quote:
. from my experiences, 1-2 huge spoonfuls of Turmeric powder + 1 small spoonfull of ground up black pepper really helped me with SA. of course, its a very Weak MAOI...but it also has neuroprotective properties, and is an NMDA antagonist.
It helped me alot last school year, the downside being, the effects only last about 3-4 hours after dosing. So every 4 hours you have to re-dose (swallow more of the turmeric powder, i chugged it down with milk, it wasn't too bad)
Experiences
The following is simply a compiling of various reports in effort to describe the effects of Curcumin (Tumreric). These reports largely do not reflect in a therapeutic sense, rather just "feelings" or effects noted.
Quote:
I tried a single dose of Curcumin several days ago. 300mg Solgar brand Tumeric from Whole Foods, 95% Curcumin. Lunchtime dose.
It was a bad day to start with. The hours after the dose, it just got worse. I felt more tired, more depressed. Any bit of forced energy or forced motivation I had just evaporated into dark survival. I just couldn't wait for bed to get it over with.
Oddly, I couldn't fall asleep. I always sleep good. I tossed and tossed. It felt similar to that serotonin/norepinephrine/dopamine stimulation I have felt on various psych drugs. After 4 hours, I finally gave up and took a half of a Benadryl. It put me to sleep in about half an hour.
The next morning took me by surprise. I woke feeling a kind of refreshed "it's a new chapter" kind of feeling, the same thing I felt after my first dose of the MAOI antidepressant Parnate.
About halfway through the morning I felt warm, energetic, and clear headed. My weak rubbery legs had bounce and energy. Pains from Lyme disease were nearly gone. My brain fog turned into crystal clear seeing and thinking. Sharp. My appetite was down. There was absolutely no doubt Curcumin had an astounding effect that took me totally by surprise.
All over the net it is claimed there are no side effects. I found that laughable. My side effects were: Appetite supression; anxiety (the chest/belly kind); and insomnia. My friend at another forum said insomnia was the side effect he couldn't handle. I can see why.
The benefits though were huge. Depression went from a monster to a whimper overnight. Energy went from the dumps to the clouds. Fog totally vanished. Instead of avoiding people and conversations, I was actually approaching people and conversations.
I am thinking of retrying it, but starting at a much lower dose and working my way upward, with customized home-made doses.
One-time fluke or real potential? Dunno. We'll see. All I can tell you is that nothing, absolutely nothing, out of dozens of herbs and dozens of psychiatric meds, have impacted me in such a positive way so rapidly and unexpectedly, except for Parnate. It is curious to see that one of the claimed actions of Curcumin is a MAO inhibitor. That's what Parnate is.
Back to your original question, one study I found showed that Curcumin enhanced the effects of subclinical doses of Prozac and a couple other antidepressants. Based on that, it would appear to me it is safe to combine with SJW. If you do it, I would go into knowing that the hype on the net about no side effects is a bit negligent in my opinion.
Quote:
Turmeric Root (active ingredient = curcumin) it is an MAO-A inhibitor. However, it is not absorbed by the body, unless you take it with Piperine (Black Pepper, the stuff in your cupboard hopefully) . from my experiences, 1-2 huge spoonfuls of Turmeric powder + 1 small spoonfull of ground up black pepper really helped me with SA. of course, its a very Weak MAOI...but it also has neuroprotective properties, and is an NMDA antagonist.
----
Quote:
I took curcumin for years for pain in my joints. Eventually, those pains went away. So I stopped the curcumin. After this, I realized during this time, I didn't experience random episodes of depression. After I stopped supplementing with it, those depressive episodes came back. I little research on pubmed shows that Curcumin is a potent antidepressant. It is also a great anti-inflammatory, immune modulator, is neuro-protective and many other functions.
Curcumin is also used for patients with Alzheimers disease as it reduces the amyloid plaques that develpop in alzheimers patients. We've found in this forum that things that help alzheimers patients, like lecithin and choline are also beneficial to us. Curcumin also acts as an MAO-B inhibitors. This is what breaks down serotonin and other neuro-transmitters in the brain. Curcumin increases glutathione in the brain....Also, curcumin is typically use against cancer...Curcumin can boost the immune system and has anti viral, bacterial and fungal properties.
----
Quote:
One size 000 capsule orally is enough for a smooth slightly dreamy effect for SWIM. It's very mild though. Others might need a few capsules. But it definitely works orally this way. The effects sort of remind SWIM of marijuana, or maybe like passionflower at this dose. It's very mild.
----
Quote:
Turmeric is indeed active and very much so, I currently have a medium intense foggy, dreamy state with a rather good body euphoria after eating four 000 capsules with turmeric and two with pepper. I also have a small headache and a bit stomach upset, nothing intense, but I think my next trial will be with an extraction.
----
Quote:
The tincture was ~35ml and SWIM took 5-6ml sublingually. it did not burn like many sublinguals and tasted like turmeric.
after 15 minutes SWIM spat it out and after 20 he felt "something"
At present he is at t=+1:20 and he is very effected. No question this is beyond placebo.
The effect is much like syrian rue (the only harmala he has experienced) except it seems to be stimulating as opposed to sedating.
SWIM started to sit down to watch TV and is pretty on edge. This dose is very strong in fact.
Despite no tracers or visuals (SWIM never got those with rue either) colors and lights are very bright/brilliant.
It took SWIM a ridiculous amount of time to write this down, his mind is very effect and he is beaming.
SWIM plans on testing the combination with DMT and SWIM's roomie will test it with weed (SWIM hates weed) and we'll update later.
Cheers
Quote:
There is no doubt in SWIM's mind this is beyond placebo, 3 cases of effects on very reliable sources.
if SWIM wasn't so very high on mescaline (oops) he would love to pursue this further and he is quite confident this will turn out to be a great combination for MANY drugs.
It is a stimulating MAOI, kinda like THH and SWIM hasn't stop hearing about the wonders of THH.
Negative Experiences
This is a good example why MAOIs should not be messed with particular other drugs.
Quote:
id be really careful, u dont wanna end up throwing up in the toilet for 3 hours like me. i took a reversible MAO-A inhibitor (curcumin) with Effexor and got really really bad serotonin syndrome. SS stinks.
....
but not only did i take a TON of Curcumin (MAO-A inhibitor), i took it with piperine which potentiates Curcumin greatly, and also has weak MAO inhibiting properties. And i took that stuff with Effexor...but then i also took 3 capsules of Bacopa Monniera Extract...after doing alot of research, it seems Bacopa might be an unselective serotonin agonist. no wonder i got SS.
I noticed psychoactive effects with tumeric to the point of "I need to be careful of what I eat at work for lunch" during my summer of Caapi/six months of microdosing. Everything felt extremely warm and bright and it would give me a headrush. It usually lasted 30-45 minutes, and I took it with black pepper.
Ljosalfar
Rising Star
Yes, great to discover a possible food-combo maoi, but caution is of the essence! Apparently black pepper actives (piperine) can potentiate turmeric actives (curcumin) by up to 2000%! Swim finds the reported anti-depressive action of both to be promising as well. This piperine crystals thread is relevant, for sure. It will be great to hear reports as they roll in! SWIM will offer one as time allows.
Best,
L
Best,
L
DiMiTriX
Rising Star
ok here it is..curcumine tek 8)