I have a new idea for delivery by lung of DMT--that would ALSO work for psilocybin, mescaline, or practically ANYTHING else (hopefully, anyhow). I want to use this thread for brainstorming about the idea. I especially hope our local chemists will chime in.
Here's what got me interested in this: I'm older, out of shape, etc., and I worry that it might be difficult for me to get breakthrough doses of vaporized DMT freebase. This is mostly because REAL DMT vapor seems to take a good 10 seconds of holding it in the lungs before exhale, to get the vapor to adhere to lung tissue. What most people can do in 3 breaths I have an idea might take me 5--and if they don't get done within 1 1/2 minutes or so, then it's difficult reliably to get a breakthgough dose (at least that's how I understand it).
The idea is to use an ultrasonic nebulizer--which can deliver virtually ANY LIQUID (yes, even very thick liquids) at quite high speeds (note, if necessary, I COULD design one to produce "vapor" at even higher rates than typical medical nebulizers). The one I linked to is quite an expensive one, but it's cool because it nebulizes to the LAST DROP.
Some facts about nebulizers:
1) They do not HEAT the liquid. They "disrupt" the liquid by one of two methods, to create "droplets" of liquid that are LARGER than "vapor." A typical size for a droplet is 5 microns. Of the two methods "pressure" (most common) and "ultrasonic," I think ultrasonic would probbly be best for us (but the question is still open).
2) The important thing about the droplets is that they are LARGE (yet small enough to get deeply into the lungs), and they are COOL (room temperature). This means that a hit wouldn't need to be held in for more than a second or two (probably) for ALL the vapor to adhere to the lungs and not come out on an exhale.
3) You may have seen them used with a face mask--which would be very wasteful for our purposes. But they are also used with a mouthpiece--which is what we would use. It seems that using the nebulizer I linked to, with a mouthpiece, and turning it on in bursts, only to inhale (it has a simple on/off button), would deliver ALL the solution, with NO WASTE, in a short period of time. That particular machine delivers at the rate of about 1ml/minute (max). Others can deliver even faster. The MINIMUM amount of liquid that can be set up for delivery is 0.35ml--which is about 7 drops of liquid from an eyedropper.
Here are some particulars points of interest to me:
1) a milliliter of fluid (ml) is generally approximated as 20 drops from an eyedropper. An "average" estimate of the rate of delivery from these machines is about 1ml/minute (although that could be increased with custom design).
2) It could deliver ANY fluid: green dragon (tincture of cannabis produced from everclear), or ANY psychedelic that could be dissolved in any safe liquid. Distilled water is, of course, the safest. Pure ethanol (or everclear) would be safe: hopefully, we're talking about only 10-20 drops--you're not going to get drunk from 10-20 drops of alcohol. An ounce is approximately 30ml, btw.
3) It would be QUICKER and EASIER and HEALTHIER to use the nebulizer compared to any method of smoking or "heat vaporizing." "Taste" could be easily managed by adding a drop of your favorite flavoring agent, if that was desired.
4) DMT is considered the ULTIMATE psychedelic. But is that really accurate? There is very little experience out there regarding use of psilocybin or mescaline taken by IV or inhalation...and much of the reputation of DMT (I'm not counting ayahuasca) has been gained by its use through inhalation or IV (Strassman). IT MAY BE that if there were an easy way to get those other psychedelics into the lungs that they might produce powerful breakthrough experiences just as powerful as DMT! Who knows? I'm sure NOBODY KNOWS what the inhalation combination of DMT with one or both of those others would be like.
Solubility:
1) This is potentially a problem (if one is interested in inhaling at a FAST rate--for a full dose within a minute or so, for example). To give an encouraging example, regular table salt at room temperature has a solubility in water of 360mg/ml--which would be FAR MORE than we're looking for.
2) Water can be used. Alcohol can be used. It might be worth putting some thought into what OTHER solvents can be used. PLEASE DO NOT EXPERIMENT USING DIFFERENT SOLVENTS IN A NEBULIZER UNTIL IT'S CONFIRMED THAT THEY ARE SAFE!!
Some information I wouldn't mind having right now:
1) How many eyedropper drops of distilled water are necessary to dissolve about 70 mg. of DMT-fumarate?
2) How many drops of everclear (ethanol) are necessary to dissolve about 50 mg. of DMT-freebase?
3) What form is DMT-acetate? If it's liquid itself, it might be utilizable directly.
4) IMPORTANT NOTE: Nobody really knows if/how much DMT gets destroyed in "real world" high temperature vaporizing. We do know that NONE of it would be destroyed by nebulizing. It may be that nebulizer doses will be SMALLER than heat vaporized doses!
To make dissolving easier you might try:
1) Warming the solvent somewhat above room temperature
2) Pulverizing the DMT in a mortar/pestle
All thoughts on this topic will be appreciated, and potentially useful for everyone! Thanks!
FYI: Here is a video of a nice lady using her nebulizer. Note two important things: She is using a PRESSURE nebulizer, not an ultrasonic nebulizer. She is taking a HUGE amount of medicine (which she says takes 15 minutes). We will use FAR smaller amounts (but we would probably NOT use a pressure nebulizer). We would also turn off the nebulizer between inhales. Notice however, that after she does inhale she immediately exhales/begins to talk and no vapor comes out of her mouth.
Here's what got me interested in this: I'm older, out of shape, etc., and I worry that it might be difficult for me to get breakthrough doses of vaporized DMT freebase. This is mostly because REAL DMT vapor seems to take a good 10 seconds of holding it in the lungs before exhale, to get the vapor to adhere to lung tissue. What most people can do in 3 breaths I have an idea might take me 5--and if they don't get done within 1 1/2 minutes or so, then it's difficult reliably to get a breakthgough dose (at least that's how I understand it).
The idea is to use an ultrasonic nebulizer--which can deliver virtually ANY LIQUID (yes, even very thick liquids) at quite high speeds (note, if necessary, I COULD design one to produce "vapor" at even higher rates than typical medical nebulizers). The one I linked to is quite an expensive one, but it's cool because it nebulizes to the LAST DROP.
Some facts about nebulizers:
1) They do not HEAT the liquid. They "disrupt" the liquid by one of two methods, to create "droplets" of liquid that are LARGER than "vapor." A typical size for a droplet is 5 microns. Of the two methods "pressure" (most common) and "ultrasonic," I think ultrasonic would probbly be best for us (but the question is still open).
2) The important thing about the droplets is that they are LARGE (yet small enough to get deeply into the lungs), and they are COOL (room temperature). This means that a hit wouldn't need to be held in for more than a second or two (probably) for ALL the vapor to adhere to the lungs and not come out on an exhale.
3) You may have seen them used with a face mask--which would be very wasteful for our purposes. But they are also used with a mouthpiece--which is what we would use. It seems that using the nebulizer I linked to, with a mouthpiece, and turning it on in bursts, only to inhale (it has a simple on/off button), would deliver ALL the solution, with NO WASTE, in a short period of time. That particular machine delivers at the rate of about 1ml/minute (max). Others can deliver even faster. The MINIMUM amount of liquid that can be set up for delivery is 0.35ml--which is about 7 drops of liquid from an eyedropper.
Here are some particulars points of interest to me:
1) a milliliter of fluid (ml) is generally approximated as 20 drops from an eyedropper. An "average" estimate of the rate of delivery from these machines is about 1ml/minute (although that could be increased with custom design).
2) It could deliver ANY fluid: green dragon (tincture of cannabis produced from everclear), or ANY psychedelic that could be dissolved in any safe liquid. Distilled water is, of course, the safest. Pure ethanol (or everclear) would be safe: hopefully, we're talking about only 10-20 drops--you're not going to get drunk from 10-20 drops of alcohol. An ounce is approximately 30ml, btw.
3) It would be QUICKER and EASIER and HEALTHIER to use the nebulizer compared to any method of smoking or "heat vaporizing." "Taste" could be easily managed by adding a drop of your favorite flavoring agent, if that was desired.
4) DMT is considered the ULTIMATE psychedelic. But is that really accurate? There is very little experience out there regarding use of psilocybin or mescaline taken by IV or inhalation...and much of the reputation of DMT (I'm not counting ayahuasca) has been gained by its use through inhalation or IV (Strassman). IT MAY BE that if there were an easy way to get those other psychedelics into the lungs that they might produce powerful breakthrough experiences just as powerful as DMT! Who knows? I'm sure NOBODY KNOWS what the inhalation combination of DMT with one or both of those others would be like.
Solubility:
1) This is potentially a problem (if one is interested in inhaling at a FAST rate--for a full dose within a minute or so, for example). To give an encouraging example, regular table salt at room temperature has a solubility in water of 360mg/ml--which would be FAR MORE than we're looking for.
2) Water can be used. Alcohol can be used. It might be worth putting some thought into what OTHER solvents can be used. PLEASE DO NOT EXPERIMENT USING DIFFERENT SOLVENTS IN A NEBULIZER UNTIL IT'S CONFIRMED THAT THEY ARE SAFE!!
Some information I wouldn't mind having right now:
1) How many eyedropper drops of distilled water are necessary to dissolve about 70 mg. of DMT-fumarate?
2) How many drops of everclear (ethanol) are necessary to dissolve about 50 mg. of DMT-freebase?
3) What form is DMT-acetate? If it's liquid itself, it might be utilizable directly.
4) IMPORTANT NOTE: Nobody really knows if/how much DMT gets destroyed in "real world" high temperature vaporizing. We do know that NONE of it would be destroyed by nebulizing. It may be that nebulizer doses will be SMALLER than heat vaporized doses!
To make dissolving easier you might try:
1) Warming the solvent somewhat above room temperature
2) Pulverizing the DMT in a mortar/pestle
All thoughts on this topic will be appreciated, and potentially useful for everyone! Thanks!
FYI: Here is a video of a nice lady using her nebulizer. Note two important things: She is using a PRESSURE nebulizer, not an ultrasonic nebulizer. She is taking a HUGE amount of medicine (which she says takes 15 minutes). We will use FAR smaller amounts (but we would probably NOT use a pressure nebulizer). We would also turn off the nebulizer between inhales. Notice however, that after she does inhale she immediately exhales/begins to talk and no vapor comes out of her mouth.
