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Usefulness of DMT?

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halcyon

halcyon

Rising Star
I'm curious what many of the "old-hands" here think about the usefulness of DMT. I have always considered it a worthy tool for exploring the deeper reaches of awareness - particularly in regards to the intellectual aspect.

I am not a fan of the word breakthrough or even peak experience because those terms are relative - not just between different people, but at different times for the SAME person. A peak LSD experience when I was 20 pales in comparison (that is richness, emotional depth, intellectual understanding, a modicum of spiritual maturity). If it comes to having to draw the line, I like to think of breaking through as losing awareness of the material world - BUT NOT awareness of ones own awareness. So, if we could, lets try and leave out the whole "breakthrough" and "peak" business. Each person should know for themselves whether they have reached such a space or not. Each person willing to come here, to these boards, has most likely experienced such a state.

I ask this question because I've been doing some research and many people I admire find the chemical to be of questionable "usefulness" - that would include Shulgin, Dale Pendell, and others. Dale Pendell, in particular, finds the experience "cartoon-like" and over-saturated. I would sum his opinion up by saying "the drug tries too hard". No doubt he respects it greatly, but clearly he believes there are other substances (indeed, other tryptamines) which hold more promise for serious inner work. I am not interested in the recreational aspects at the moment.

Please share your thoughts on the matter. Clearly we are all hear for a reason. I hope we can have a short but good dialogue on DMT's role within the universe of our potions.

[H
 
People should find what works for them personally. I find a lot of what I call drug snobs in the marijuana movement and I'm sure that when someone has myriad types of psychedelics easily available they might find themselves getting picky. Opinions are like the proverbial asshole, everyone has one. SWIM finds dmt to be the best tool easily available to him in his quest for learning. He does have access to potent shrooms and has had some success with cacti which he also uses. LSD was his favorite ally but hasn't had access to it in years. SWIM is just at the beginning of his of his relationship with dmt but if that relationship is anything like the one he has with mushrooms and cacti it will be a long and happy one. SWIMS dmt experiences have been very rewarding. He can identify with your words on "breakthrough" experiences, he's had what he would call a breakthrough experience with lsd and shrooms. On lsd that type of experience was multiple levels of higher intensity and the peak would last like four hours instead of the usual one hour making for a 16 hour experience instead of the usualy 8 hour one. The first time it happened it was terrifying and was definately a "bad" trip. Eventually on successive instances of it happening he learned to relax his fear and actually felt that he harnassed the incredible energy made available.
 
Nothing that seems to call SWIM on a personal level, but greatly achieving beyond any LSD, psilocybin mudhroooms, or some kind of PEA, list goes on.. Only before the peak of death can we achieve the moment as we become 'one with the sun'. This is no godlike concept which can be reprimanded to the vision from planet hell. Still believe that if the drug certainly is 'trying too hard', perhaps there's more to just the truth in trying to achieve enlightenment even without these substances. There's plenty of people moping around our world dissatisfied with their lives, abusing and misusing the things which our world provides, but this gives no reasoning to what is really trying to be achieved. Fun? Maybe the badass vibe or Most likely some superficial passtime.

Must accompany the thought that there should be reasoning to why this substance has been used for over a thousand years. Shamans guide people to achieve a balance among their life, but I'm not saying it will solve world problems. Promoting the safe alternatives beyond chanting 'Yes We Can' to a crowd of apathy among the interlude to the end of political society. These things move with your body, your mind, and your spirit to achieve the potentials one can only grasp in their dreams. Believing is an understatement.

I must say, satisfaction guaranteed. Though it really becomes hard to understand however.. what's with the fairyland, seriously? Responding to mythology of past civilizations and countless number of recurrences in so many different cultures, this is certainly reasoning to why it is definitely not for everyone.
 
First of all I don't think you should ever compare smoked DMT to any other substance in terms of usefulness. The main reason being how much time it takes for a whole experience. Something like mescaline for instance is a slow, long drawn out trip which gives the user much insight which can be gained in that state and held onto and processed and then reflected on at a later time. One experience with substances with these durations can be quite worth while, but then at the same time because these experiences are so long I have many thoughts over the period of a few hours and a lot of the gained information gets lost in confusion, particularly with psilcybin and LSD.

With DMT on the other hand, the spiritual traveller will probably have to return a few times until they can make sense of it. I think there's too much emphasis on the "other dimension" aspect of it, whereas I'm not dismissing that as a possibility, I have experiences when I've gone under thinking of something that's been on my mind and the themes I have been through have summed up those thoughts in a way I myself would never have thought of which has helped me deal with life in general. That and the pleasant after feeling have proven very therapeutic.
 
I have to agree with the first post. SWIM finds smoked DMT of very little use on it's own. The effects are too strong and too rapid to make much sense of. It's like a psychedelic roller coaster ride. It's a lot of fun, but you learn almost nothing from the experience. Smoked 5-MeO-DMT is even worse in that respect.

However, oral DMT with THH is a very useful tool for self exploration. It doesn’t have any of the problems smoked DMT has. The experience is slowed down to a sensible speed, and the THH helps restore mental clarity, giving you much more control over your mind, allowing you to better navigate the realms. The combination is more useful for exploring the mind than any other powerful psychedelic SWIM has tried (that includes 5-MeO-DMT, LSD, mescaline, DOM, psilocybin, amanita pantherina, salvia and bufotenine to name a few).
 
DMT cured foaf of a lifelong 'depression'/meloncholy. It also inspires and motivates him.
He had previously found LSD, shrooms etc to be confusing and of no value other than recreational.
If he wants to ponder on things under the influence, he eats a cactus. With DMT, the thinking comes afterwards, when sober.
Different people find different things useful.
 
I would have to say that smoked DMT can be a useful tool, but it is limited in its usefulness. I have used it to bring me out of a depression and it works very well and very quickly. It has also been useful to show me that we may not be alone in the universe. It also clearly shows me that what we watch has an impact on our psyche. I often become extremely contemplative on the come down; I usually gain great motivation to better myself after a Tryptamine Dream.

The experience can be bizarre at times, but the alieness is also something that benefits me, I can't quite explain it in words, but being in something so foreign and different humbles me.

Ayahuasca is a very different thing (and by Ayahuasca I mean Caapi + Admixture). The brew is very healing and lasts for days/weeks after consumption. Pharmahuasca has many of the same benefits, but personally, for me, I find Ayahuasca to be a deeper and richer experience and I am able to accomplish more work than with any other substance. I think some of this has to do with the preparation of the brew.

The Cactus and Mushrooms have their place as well. Phens in particular seem to be able to open lines of communication and allow open discussion and extreme memory recall.
 
Smoked DMT can temporarily break one down and tear one's world apart, but with aid of a harmaloid, any method of ingestion can certainly build one up. Though heavy doses of harmaloids/DMT may simulate the experience of death, and this can be seen as benificial in its own right. Perhaps it can be seen as a way of training the mind, the spirit, or what have you.

Sometimes SWIM feels like he's delving into some sort of genetic memory or even a primal mode of being. SWIM reconnects with his body (brain, flesh, bone, everything), his past, and perhaps even his ancestry. SWIM feels that straight smoked spice is simply the more raw form of the huasca experience. Though the visions seem a bit more abstract with smoked spice, it's perhaps possible that the visions and everyday experiences that seem to make more sense are the true abstractions. But perhaps this abstraction is a strength, and perhaps the harmaloids merely grant this strength in the extremes of hyperspace, where it would normally be lacking.
 
Yes it is curious how much more alien and abstract the subject matter of smoking is compared to drinking.
And with both, foaf has never been affected by any other entheogen so deeply, beneficially and for so long AFTER the experience. It's lifechanging.
 
SWIM agrees with the above statement..DMT has changed his life more than any other chemical..first there was weed...then coke..then mdma..THEN mushrooms..the first look into the magical world..then acid..which put him in the electronic and mechanical way of seeing things..and then PEA's which showed him how to become balanced..and put him in touch with his body...and memories...then DMT came along..and taught him the magical ways..put him in the magical realm..and said...YOU WILL NEVER FORGET THIS..and it became a part of him..his soul food..one that never goes away...one taste is all you need..and you are changed forever
 
SWIM has tried practically every class of compound... ketamine, opiates, cannabis, alcohol, benzos, mdma, amphetamines, phenethylamines (lot of RCs), salvia, tryptamines...

SWIM has told me that DMT is the most enjoyable (though not in an addictive way) and the most useful. Five minutes is long enough to gain valuable insight. For example, SWIM saw planet Earth in the context of the universe and it was so incredibly tiny. We live on a tiny little speck of dust, SWIM was able to realize this for the first time under the influence of DMT.

The pharmahuasca trip is also useful in SWIM's opinion if used in moderation and under the right set and setting.

Fun, yes. Useful, yes.
 
halcyon said:
Dale Pendell, in particular, finds the experience "cartoon-like" and over-saturated. I would sum his opinion up by saying "the drug tries too hard". No doubt he respects it greatly, but clearly he believes there are other substances (indeed, other tryptamines) which hold more promise for serious inner work.
Click to expand...

Actually, on one of the *most* frightfully intense experiences my friends cat's zombie grandmother had, everything seemed very cartoonlike - perfectly so. He looked out of the bathroom window, and everything seemed to be at a 45 degree angle.

The rest of house a blur, Amidst this experience, he felt the *STRONGEST* sense of entity contact he's ever experienced. They were definately there.

The cartoon street and the cars outside, were representitive of an entity: (an official body, but not malevolent or threatening, not like the police, more like a council member.) they had mainly just come to check the level of the trip, since it was clearly a big one, and make sure it didn't progress above a certain threshold.

my friends's cat's zombie grandma really was headed for the far reaches of outer space on that one.

so, to sum up:

I really don't think that this 'cartoonesque' quality of DMT you describe makes it non-useful as a tool for exploration. Infact if you think about it, it really opens up the possiblities!
 
Wonderful. I appreciate all of the responses. What I love about this forum is that the members are quite literate and mature. That is sadly missing from many of the other sites which focus on equally important tryptamines (shroomery comes to mind). To be quite honest, it is this site - this group of people which sparked an interest in DMT for me. I had been curious about it, but when I found this site (more particularly, some of the intense interest and experimentation (dry teks, Fumaric, etc..) - I found immediate respect for many members.

SWIM has never had a single dose of smoked DMT. It has always been multiple smoked doses in the course of an evening (or day). SWIM reported that the last time he/she gave it a go, twenty hits were consumed if one was. This is how SWIM knows what a subjective "breakthrough" is - it is a bit like an orgasm. If you aren't sure you had one, you didn't ; )

SWIM's experience was much more rewarding then SWIM ever imagined. However, SWIM was smoking n-oxide which apparently is quite different (and qualitatively better) than straight DMT. In fact, SWIM is interested in n-oxide much more. If you have a free moment check out another thread of mine regarding what to do with an n-oxide saturated solution. SWIM could use help on that front.

69ron, Entheogenist, Entropymancer - I consider you guys quite authorities on this substance (though many other people here fit that description) - can you describe what you consider to be the best oral DMT method? Can a Fumarate be used? Do you recommend an MAOI? Others, please chime in as well. SWIM isn't interested in snorting or shooting. Anal would only be an option if it changed the experience for the better by a factor or more. SWIM enjoys the psychedelic experience as much as the next person, but growth and living well goes far beyond this.

Is there anyone here who prefers n-oxide or another (non 4-meo) form of DMT (or tryptamine)? SWIM is looking for a chemical facilitator which lasts somewhere in between the duration of mushrooms and that of DMT. Mushrooms demand consider time and intent - DMT demands lots of intent but little time (and seems slightly less rewarding in terms of insight). A 2 hour experience would be brilliant. Pot "seems" to fit that but SWIM finds it relatively stupid, overly complex (mentally) and best used on rare occassions.

Thanks to all
[H
 
just because shuglin discovered alot of these things, doesn't mean that his opinion on them is final. You have to remember that he was foremost a chemist, and that its certainly possible that other people have more experience than him, deeper in hyperspace.
 
halcyon..you may want to look into bufotenine...smoked..it lasts about 2 hours..is not quite as demanding as DMT..and less demanding than mushrooms..but with profound visuals..and other hidden secrets yet to be revealed..look into the effects

dmt fumarate works like a charm..but of course only orally with MAOI's...SWIM's favorite combo is 100mg THH hcl + 50mg harmaline + 50mg dmt fumarate the harmaline settles some of the energy from the THH and the DMT..while the THH increases lucidity..and SWIM just mixes all three up in warm water and drinks them down on an empty stomach..and then eats a little something..like some cereal..bread..or even a beer works..you just want your stomach to start digesting what you put in it right!?;)

SWIM is still working on finding the perfect balance of THH and harmaline for maximum effect...SWIM feels if he works with the dose..he may be able to use less DMT
 
SWIM assumes that it's a lot like dying in a bad way. Your brain losing proper functioning and communication with other systems and what not, the dissociative effects, the numbness. The value is what it can make you realize, and what it can make you imagine. The event itself makes little sense, but that's the point. It's being, but being in a way that you never have. SWIM still hasn't decided if there's real value in this, or if it's Lovecraftian forbidden knowledge. Is it even real? Is that how death feels, and is that how we are after death? Or is it simply comparable to throwing a wrench into some gears if your brain was a machine? In a relative sense we have all existed forever. In a literal sense even. Everything we are made of came to be at the same time, it just took billions of years for humans to form from that. Is hyperspace like being alive, in a relative way? Life without being an individual life form? Is life just some thing, living in the universe in infinite ways?

It all depends on you really. Your question makes SWIM want to ask you a question. Would being part of infinity excite you, even if it leads to something undesirable? There's another side to the coin. SWIM really hopes it's all set and setting, and that it's all about being in a good place, but he's not so sure at times, and too scared to figure it out on his own. So by no means can he give you a decent opinion. All he can say is that he regrets it so far. Maybe it'll change some day.
 
For oral administration again I have to say that Ayahuasca is prefered.
However, if you are looking for something easier on the body, pharmahuasca is perfect.

THH+Harmine combination (100mgs/100mgs seems to work best for me) along with extracted DMT (for me 200-300mgs) does provide a wonderful experience that can last from 30 minutes to a few hours. Most of mine last about 1.5-3 hours long with the peak lasting around 30min-1 hour.

Alternatively one can use a rue extraction (or tea) along with extracted spice or even a mimosa tea (5-10 grams is more than enough for most people).
 
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