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Usefulness of DMT?

Migrated topic.
SWIM thinks different administration forms of dmt have different uses.

Smoked is just to explore the effects of the substance on its own (i guess IV would also be useful in this regard but SWIM doesn't like needles) or on a low dose to introduce one to the effects of the substance.

Oral dmt is better for more drawn out psychological exploration of oneself and the universe. Ayahuasca is better for physical and mental healing. Pharmahuasca is better for psychedelic exploration without necessarily having to go through the major healing aspects (purging ritual etc).

Compared to other psychedelics is certainly one of the most interesting but SWIM has benefited more from other substances however SWIM still has a lot to learn from the spice.
 
burnt said:
Oral dmt is better for more drawn out psychological exploration of oneself and the universe. Ayahuasca is better for physical and mental healing. Pharmahuasca is better for psychedelic exploration without necessarily having to go through the major healing aspects (purging ritual etc).
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Extremely well put Burnt. I agree 100%
 
acolon_5 have you ever tried Chaliponga tea with a thh, harmine hcl combination. I'm wondering if it is just the maoi rue or caapi part of Chali Ayahuasca that makes for the purging and if SWIM could expect nausea with Chaliponga tea after taking 120mg harmine + 80mg thh sublingually with lemon juice. I'm sure that MHRB tea would make one purge!!
 
memo said:
acolon_5 have you ever tried Chaliponga tea with a thh, harmine hcl combination. I'm wondering if it is just the maoi rue or caapi part of Chali Ayahuasca that makes for the purging and if SWIM could expect nausea with Chaliponga tea after taking 120mg harmine + 80mg thh sublingually with lemon juice. I'm sure that MHRB tea would make one purge!!
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I haven't yet, but it is on my to do list. You may experience nausea with any oral DMT+MAOI combination, but I imagine that it will be much less than with Caapi+admixture. Some people don't purge or get nauseous at all with aya or pharma, it's kind of an individual thing...but they don't call Ayahuasca "la purga" for nothing.
 
I find smoked DMT the most useful of all in terms of prying the mind permanently open. LSD, shrooms, etc. are extremely insightful but too personal. They trap us in our minds. They are often not easy to handle. DMT opens my mind up to thoughts not related to myself, but to the universe. It's useful in re-awakening the mind to seeing possibilities. It's EASY and fun. It's more of a spaceship than a microscope, and since I have done more than enough exploring with LSD and shrooms (100's if not 1000+) i feel DMT refreshingly otherworldly, i can bring back insights that relate to things unrelated to my life perse, and that has proven to be more mind-expanding in scientific terms than dwelling on pure interpersonal relationships or my own spiritual connection with the gai or earth.

DMT and Salvia both spur incredible thoughts that last for me, weeks to months after a strong dose of either. With dmt and salvia, i get a swift kick in the spiritual ass and my brain comes back reeling with excitement that it is self-aware. I read a lot of science and religion and culture after smoking either, those trips spark extreme thought patterns.

LSD and SHROOMS exhaust the shit out of me, they use me up and spit me out, by the end of those trips, I'm burned out and not in the mood to think anymore. I have NEVER met a single person who have told me lsd or mushrooms have brought them lasting inner peace and tranquility that stays with them. It's always a big dramatic effect on their consciousness combining ups and downs. On the other hand salvia and dmt people just get blown open in a single dose or two, true spiritual healers, positivity that does not include the foreboding of the 6-12 hour trips.

LSD in particular never taught me anything but was a great tool for writing, music and feeling peaceful and alive creatively. The times i learned from mushrooms I was also usually utterly scared to death.... fun, but not too often.
 
SWIM learned more from LSD than any other compound. SWIM directly owes a lot of his personal intellectual advancements to LSD. LSD opened his eyes more than anything else. Maybe SWIY didn’t have real LSD?
 
^^^ Agreed.

As for smoked spice, it's understandable that people question its usefulness based on the uncontrollable intensity, propensity for memory loss, and short duration. The profoundness of the experience itself can't be ignored though. It does tend to introduce a dramatic and permanent shift in the subject's consciousness (generally for the positive). As for repeated use, that's a subjective choice. One cannot weigh the relative usefulness of another's experience.

Regarding oral though, the arguments applied to smoking become invalid. Employing the scientific approach (pharmahuasca is such a tired term, denigrating it to something 'less' or 'beneath' or 'artificial' compared to the 'popular consensus' of a 'superior' 'traditional' approach) offers almost infinite range of experience since the intensity, flavor, and length of the experience can be predictably predetermined based on the precise amount and ratio of each ingredient.

More experimentation needs to be done with mild oral MAO inhibition in combination with smoked spice. There is much to be gained from these fusion experiences, drawing from the mix of the intensity of smoke but also the more gradual integration and lengthened lucidity of oral. Like E, this method plays well with 'bumping' where the subject can re-administer small doses to maintain their desired level of intensity over time.
 
acolon_5 said:
Some people don't purge or get nauseous at all with aya or pharma, it's kind of an individual thing...but they don't call Ayahuasca "la purga" for nothing.
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Sorry that this is a little off-topic, but afoaf really wants to know this... He hates purging and thinks it unhealthy (lesions in the throat from vomiting have killed peyoteists). How can he take DMT with an MAO-A without purging? Is there a method that minimises the risk? E.g. filtered aya tea with extracted DMT? He could then comfortably have more useful longer experiences.
 
ohayoco said:
acolon_5 said:
Some people don't purge or get nauseous at all with aya or pharma, it's kind of an individual thing...but they don't call Ayahuasca "la purga" for nothing.
Click to expand...
Sorry that this is a little off-topic, but afoaf really wants to know this... He hates purging and thinks it unhealthy (lesions in the throat from vomiting have killed peyoteists). How can he take DMT with an MAO-A without purging? Is there a method that minimises the risk? E.g. filtered aya tea with extracted DMT? He could then comfortably have more useful longer experiences.
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Take 150 mg of pure harmine (or 75 mg harmaline, or 200 mg harmine) in a capsule with a small glass of water on an empty stomach. Wait 15 minutes.

Take the oral DMT dose (whatever dose you need) in a capsule with a small glass of water.

Immediately eat something like a piece of bread, and wash it down with some sweet juice. The bread and the juice trick the body into thinking there’s food to digest. The body is far more likely NOT to reject the DMT if it detects nourishing food along with it.

That’s how SWIM uses oral DMT and he never gets nausea that way.
 
flyboy said:
I find smoked DMT the most useful of all in terms of prying the mind permanently open. LSD, shrooms, etc. are extremely insightful but too personal. They trap us in our minds. They are often not easy to handle. DMT opens my mind up to thoughts not related to myself, but to the universe. It's useful in re-awakening the mind to seeing possibilities. It's EASY and fun. It's more of a spaceship than a microscope, and since I have done more than enough exploring with LSD and shrooms (100's if not 1000+) i feel DMT refreshingly otherworldly, i can bring back insights that relate to things unrelated to my life perse, and that has proven to be more mind-expanding in scientific terms than dwelling on pure interpersonal relationships or my own spiritual connection with the gai or earth.

DMT and Salvia both spur incredible thoughts that last for me, weeks to months after a strong dose of either. With dmt and salvia, i get a swift kick in the spiritual ass and my brain comes back reeling with excitement that it is self-aware. I read a lot of science and religion and culture after smoking either, those trips spark extreme thought patterns.

LSD and SHROOMS exhaust the shit out of me, they use me up and spit me out, by the end of those trips, I'm burned out and not in the mood to think anymore. I have NEVER met a single person who have told me lsd or mushrooms have brought them lasting inner peace and tranquility that stays with them. It's always a big dramatic effect on their consciousness combining ups and downs. On the other hand salvia and dmt people just get blown open in a single dose or two, true spiritual healers, positivity that does not include the foreboding of the 6-12 hour trips.

LSD in particular never taught me anything but was a great tool for writing, music and feeling peaceful and alive creatively. The times i learned from mushrooms I was also usually utterly scared to death.... fun, but not too often.
Click to expand...

I've gained a lasting inner peace and tranquility from mushrooms. They are great healer's to be reveered. But I will agree with the statement that they are are exhuasting and the day after a trip is always screwed.
 
Hold on... not to hijack this thread but is this Halcyon, the Burning Man expert and Bike Fur genius??

Or am I once again walking up to a stranger and making it "awkward"... lol
 
69ron said:
Take 150 mg of pure harmine (or 75 mg harmaline, or 200 mg harmine) in a capsule with a small glass of water on an empty stomach. Wait 15 minutes.
Take the oral DMT dose (whatever dose you need) in a capsule with a small glass of water.
Immediately eat something like a piece of bread, and wash it down with some sweet juice. The bread and the juice trick the body into thinking there’s food to digest. The body is far more likely NOT to reject the DMT if it detects nourishing food along with it.
That’s how SWIM uses oral DMT and he never gets nausea that way.
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Thanks 69ron, great advice as always! He assumes that he would take the same dose orally as he would smoke usually?
 
halcyon said:
I ask this question because I've been doing some research and many people I admire find the chemical to be of questionable "usefulness" - that would include Shulgin, Dale Pendell, and others.[H
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What substances exactly do these people regard as "useful"?

That's what I'd like to know. Because SWIM has only found DMT and mescaline to be practically useful. As tools that nurture intellectual curiosity and emotional wellbeing.

Whereas he personally found LSD and shrooms to offer no useful insights, in fact no practical insights at all. Smoking salvia gave him a couple of interesting ideas, but the experience is too disturbing to be done again and he is suspicious of its ability to plant false memories (yes, it happened!). The only thing acid ever did for him was to make him think "hey, what do I know about reality, maybe my perception isn't the right one", but DMT would have for sure one the same thing if he had tried it first instead.
 
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