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Using older ACRB for ayahuasca? Also question about a trip I'm planning

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Rising Star
Hi all,

I have some older acrb that's been sitting in a mason jar for probably 8-9 months. When it was fresh I was greeted with a healthy goo upon extraction and didn't exactly get many crystals even after cleaning it up a bit.

I was wondering - would this be viable for ayahuasca? I've made the brew twice now but used MHRB, honestly I regret it since that's harder to come by and is better in my mind for extracting DMT. The yield wasn't very high all things considered with this ACRB in particular and was roughly .6-.7%

Anyway, my plan is to take a light dose of ayahuasca (thinking either 3g of rue seeds or 10-15g of caapi leaves) and 4-6g of the root bark then taking 3/4 of a tab of clean acid, so roughly 85ug if the potency is what I was told.

I'm not looking for an ego-shattering trip which is why I want to keep things relatively low, also I have little experience with mixing ayahuasca with anything but feel like LSD would be the best way to go since it's my preferred psychedelic.

I'm really interested in the effects of LSD and MAOi after reading dragon-n's post about caapi and LSD, but it seems like him adding more to the mix made things bumpy if I read it right. I've smoked changa while under the effects of 400ug of LSD and found it very profound yet comfortably beautiful.

On to the questions
Would it be gross to do a dry run of the rue/caapi and ACRB? I have a pretty strong stomach, so part of me thinks making the brew might not be totally necessary if I'm taking a low-ish dose. I'll likely take even less (3g rue or 8-10g caapi and only 3-4g acrb) if I go this route

Which would be the preferred choice between rue seeds and caapi leaf? I'm going to add lemon to it since I hear that helps with nausea/taste.

Does ACRB "deteriorate" over time? Or does the DMT that's present just oxidise? If it does, would that effect an ayahuasca brew? I'm really not sure how much I should add because of this, I don't want to go too light to where I'm only experiencing the effects of lsd/MAOi but would also like to avoid taking too much since I'm taking LSD as well.

Finally, timing - what should the timing be for this? Currently I'm planning on - take the caapi/rue, wait 30-45min, then take the LSD/ACRB at the same time. It seems pretty standard for plain ayahuasca, but the LSD is another variable.

I'm very excited to try this combination. I haven't been able to find very much online about it so I also plan on documenting this and posting about it once I'm reintegrated.

Any and all recommendations/tips are welcome :)
Ok, after a little thought I've decided to switch gears. I found a rather large bag of passionflower leaves/stems that I bought probably a year ago and am now considering doing that since, from what I read, it mellows the LSD experience quite a bit.

Anyway, I was wondering how much passionflower I'm supposed to use for a tea to get those effects? Usually when I would make the tea for a sleep aid, I'd just fill a cloth teabag that I have and that was that. Would that suffice? How would one go about mixing that with a little bit of caapi vine for some extra flavour (I'm thinking no more than 5-10g of the caapi)

Also, I decided to skip the acacia altogether since this is my first time mixing oral MAOi with LSD and would like to test the waters a bit before adding something else to the mix.

I might, might if I'm feeling brave ingest 2-3g of acacia depending on how I feel during the experience.

I feel like, at most it would add subtle effects and at worst give me my fiber intake for the next week.

Anyway, will update either this thread or a new thread in about a week or two after I finally do this and will check back here in case anyone responds with their insight :)
Passionflower is a pretty weak MAOI, i doubt you would feel the effects of it unless you were brewing up a couple kilos.

It is had to know about the old ACRB... though 9 months in a jar is nothing... I have extract 1% from bark left outdoors in the open air from a over a year.

Please just make sure you underestimate not overestimate because the last thing you want is a too intense trip that you didn't want.
I think I read a report on erowid about how passionflower is something like 1/50th the strength compared to rue and 1/4 the strength compared to caapi. But, from posts I've read regarding it and lsd is that it has a noticeable effect but never give the amount they drink.

I guess my reasoning for why it may work is that, at least for me, while tripping lsd I get significantly higher effects from other substances. Like 1 decent sized bong rip sends the trip to another level, if I decide to vape DMT I can breakthrough at probably 75% of what it'd normally take. So I'd "guess" that passionflower would have an amplified effect as well, but that might only be if I drink it after dropping the acid.

I'm thinking about doing this now, especially since I plan on saving the acacia for either an extraction or for a proper ayahuasca. Anyway:
Brew 8-10g of caapi alongside about 10g of passionflower for a lighter maoi
(I might do even less of caapi because like you said, better to underdo it than overdo it)
See how that feels and wait 45 to an hour before dropping the tab
Depending on how that goes, drink another 10-15g of just passionflower but probably after the peak is over
Maybe roll a joint or pack a bowl of passionflower/egyptian lotus.

I might go even lower with the caapi dosage just to play it safe, reading LSD + Caapi = absurdly intense vision quest - LSD, LSA, LSH - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

I don't really want to take a full caapi dose until I see how well the two play with eachother, maybe down the line I'll attempt taking lsd + ayahuasca simultaneously (although I feel like mescaline would be better suited)

Anyway, I guess the last question I have to ask is - how bad would it be if I have a beer or two towards the tail end of the trip? I know that it's generally not suggested for an maoi diet, but it usually knocks me out if I'm having trouble sleeping. I'll definitely avoid this if there are serious negative effects.
I have had a kilo of ACRB, that was sealed in a ziplock bag and stored in a lock-box for about two years or more, it still worked in my ayahuasca brews, and just about as good as when I had first received it...

Though I'm not sure how old is too old for ACRB...


(Sorry if this is a bit off-topic, but it related to breakdown of compounds in a plant component of ayahuasca, and seemed interesting, so I added it)

As for harmala alkaloids in caapi, shulgin comments on a hundred year old caapi samples analysis:

Maybe over the years, harmaline spontaneously loses a molecule of hydrogen, and becomes harmine. Not an easy thing to reckon with, chemically, but I am running out of possibilities. I was led to a comment that had been once made by a quiet hero of mine, Bo Holmstedt in Sweden, concerning the analysis of an ancient sample of plant material from Banisteria caapi (now known as Banisteriopsis caapi). The herbarium specimens he was looking at had been collected by the 19th century plant explorer Richard Spruce in the Rio Negro area of South America and had, after a few years of storage in a moist and mildewy hut a few miles down river, been rediscovered and sent on to the Kew Botanical Museum where they had quietly rested for over a hundred years. When Holmstedt worked them up some 30 years ago, he reported that the alkaloid content was 0.4%. This was virtually identical to a newly collected, botanically verified specimen of Banisteriopsis caapi which he analyzed at the same time and found to contain 0.5% alkaloids. The latter material contained, as described by many authors, the main alkaloids harmine, harmaline and tetrahydroharmine. By contrast, the alkaloid content of the Spruce material consisted exclusively of harmine. It is open to question whether the samples collected by Spruce in 1853 originally contained only harmine or, perhaps more likely, that harmaline and tetrahydroharmine have with time been transformed into the chemically more stable aromatic b-carboline harmine.
-shulgin; TIHKAL


... as for exactly how old your ACRB can get before it looses activity, I would very much like to have a specific answer here, well a good estimate any way...

Don't know about ACRB but MHRB keeps in a sealed container for a good ten years even if powdered.

It looks to me like NMT would oxidise to betacarboline over the course of about a century. I have a hunch that DMT oxidises to 2-Me-THβC over a more modest timescale. Does anyone know what 2-Me-THβC even does?

Have you tried LSD + mushrooms? :shock: Happy experimenting, be safe!
downwardsfromzero said:
Don't know about ACRB but MHRB keeps in a sealed container for a good ten years even if powdered.

It looks to me like NMT would oxidise to betacarboline over the course of about a century. I have a hunch that DMT oxidises to 2-Me-THβC over a more modest timescale. Does anyone know what 2-Me-THβC even does?

Have you tried LSD + mushrooms? :shock: Happy experimenting, be safe!

That's good to know, it's been in a plastic baggie inside mason jar so it's not quite sealed but pretty close to being airtight. I have about 34g left so I'll either save it for a micro-extraction or an ayahuasca brew :)

I have tried shrooms and acid, really great combo. I'd like to try mushrooms on their own because of it, planning on going hunting for some next season.

Anyway, I know I've been kinda wishywashy with what I'm planning to do, but I've decided to just do passionflower tea. I figured my first trek into mixing MAOi's with acid should be a lighter one (I might smoke a tiny bit of caapi vine after the peak is over if I can get myself to stomach the harsh taste), maybe someday I'll try caapi tea or rue extract with acid and eventually make my way up to ayahuasca and acid (or mescaline once my babies are done growing and ready to use :) )

Anyway (again), I'm likely going to be testing this combination tonight, so probably tomorrow evening I'll post a quick report for anyone who's interested since I feel like there aren't exactly a lot of reports concerning the combination.

downwardsfromzero said:
Don't know about ACRB but MHRB keeps in a sealed container for a good ten years even if powdered.

It looks to me like NMT would oxidise to betacarboline over the course of about a century. I have a hunch that DMT oxidises to 2-Me-THβC over a more modest timescale. Does anyone know what 2-Me-THβC even does?

Have you tried LSD + mushrooms? :shock: Happy experimenting, be safe!

Thanks for the information, Good to hear...

I've heard powdered samples degrade quicker than "chunks" when it comes to both ACRB and MHRB, though I have yet to confirm this bit of hearsay.

(I always buy "shredded" or "chunks" over powder material, mostly because trunk bark and even things like saw-dust and dirt seem to comprise a large percentage of powder samples sold on the retail market, deposited there by humans as "cut"...)

Anyway, I have several kilos of MHRB and ACRB in storage right now, sealed in airtight bags and stored in an airtight and waterproof lockbox, the oldest samples range from 2-3 years, most are quite a bit more fresh, I'm glad to hear that in proper storage degradation should take a good amount of time...

I also have several banisteriopsis caapi samples, vacuum sealed and in storage, but seeing as how samples from the 1800s still contained harmala alkaloids when tested, I'm going to assume there is longevity in storage regarding B. Caapi.

I also have a few kilograms of peganum harmala seed, some store bought, some mailed to me from New Mexico (where p. Harmala is an invasive species) where a friend found heaps of this plant growing wild, and at my request mailed me a good deal of the seeds...

Any estimates on the storage of peganum harmala seed? (Syrian rue, esphand, esfand, harmel, etc...)

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