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using plastic for extraction?

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whitebread420 said:
so they should start packaging water, milk, orange juice, and anything else that's packaged in plastic jugs in glass instead?

I'm seriously not trying to be an ass, but wouldn't these products dissolve these phtalates potentially?
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First of all...none of the products you listed are non-polar solvents specifically contraindicated for use with plastic (the topic at hand and significantly more relevant for discussion on entheogen extractions).

Second of all...yes, glass bottles would be safer, but due to cost we will not see that as a widespread practice in our capitalistic society. They've found that plasticizers leech into the fluids we get from plastic bottles, especially with disposable water bottles. There are numerous studies on this and the negative effects of these substances on humans (e.g. the harmful impacts on the endocrine system).
 
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whitebread420 said:
so they should start packaging water, milk, orange juice, and anything else that's packaged in plastic jugs in glass instead?

I'm seriously not trying to be an ass, but wouldn't these products dissolve these phtalates potentially?
Click to expand...



I've filled gallon jugs with water from my well to carry with me and drink for years. My well water is healthy and sweet. Since switching from plastic jugs to glass, I seem to not quite a difference in taste.

Yes, they definately should find alternatives to plastic. Wax paper or butchers papers takes the place of cling wrap/saran wrap. Glass vessels replace plastic bottles. Also, transport less items a lesser distance.

There's an island of mostly plastic garbage, apparently it's huge.

Ever buy a plastic bottle of water...let it sit around a few days, open it, drink it, maybe even re-fill it....and it just goes "wrong" and must be tossed?

I'm seriously not trying to be an ass, but wouldn't these products dissolve these phtalates potentially?[/
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Er.....they probably do. First off, a coorporation, be definition is only concerned with it's own profits, not with your health. Second of all, this thing about phthalates--science perhaps does not yet have a one hundred percent perfect answer on the matter. The books are not yet closed, juries are not entirely in yet, and there is room for quibbling about minor details. My money is against all plastics entirely. Give it another ten years and evidence will be gathered against any "safe" plastic you care to name. I could well be wrong on that bet, but a) by avoiding all plastics in my life as much as I can I am "playing in safe" as far as my own health goes and b) I am not contributing to that island of garbage.
 
To discuss the pros and cons of plastics versus glass in the DMT extraction proceedure seems a bit silly to me, in view of the fact that synthetic polymers are everywhere around us from the cradle to the grave. Just think hospitals for a moment and you get an idea of that. The average lifespan in a plastics orientated society is higher now than it was prior to their discovery and ubiquitous use. Sure, go ahead and carve a little glass and wood niche out for yourself if it makes you feel better. But you'll have to go deep into the woods to get away from "plastic" in any meaningful way.
 
show me an example in a hospital, or any other common place, where xylene or chlorinated hydrocarbons are stored in plastic bottles. Last I checked, most places don't store aliphatics, aromatics, or halogenated hydrocarbons in these 'advanced plastics' you speak of.
Fisher Sci, Alfa, Sigma, and all other companies who observe high standards of quality control, store their nonpolars in glass (unless it's an HDPE waste carboy, where they're not worried about getting plastics leached into products).

just because spice tastes like burning plastic, doesn't mean it actually supposed to have plastic in it.
 
benzyme said:
show me an example in a hospital, or any other common place, where xylene or chlorinated hydrocarbons are stored in plastic bottles. Last I checked, most places don't store aliphatics, aromatics, or halogenated hydrocarbons in these 'advanced plastics' you speak of.
Fisher Sci, Alfa, Sigma, and all other companies who observe high standards of quality control, store their nonpolars in glass (unless it's an HDPE waste carboy, where they're not worried about getting plastics leached into products).

just because spice tastes like burning plastic, doesn't mean it actually supposed to have plastic in it.
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I'll certainly not get into a discussion with a bio anylatical chemist on the whys and wherefores of NPS storage mediums. ( out of my depth in every respect)

My little contribution refers more to the posts that express an underlying antipathy to plastics in general.

I use plastics to get my "booty" ( glass for the freeze precip.) I eat well, excercise well, don't smoke or drink excessively . It doesn't phase me in the slightest that 2 times a month I could be potentially inhaling mollecules of synthetic polymers into my lungs. Part of my profession involves spraying toxic plant proctection chems. Everything tends to get put into perspective relative to the enviroment we find ourselves in.
 
I agree with arcanum with the prevalence of plastics already in our environment and that even with the cesspool of chemicals we're exposed to daily the lifespan of humans is still increasing. IMO we are starting to better understand what these chemicals are doing to us over time and are taking the necessary controls to minimize our exposure.
I think it would be in the best interest for our 'entheogenic university' to preform some analytical experiments regarding the particular phthalate compound and at what concentrations are being leached out based on the type of plastic being used (ie. Milk jugs, plastic turkey basters, mason jar rubber seals) the solvent used and the time/temperature at which the conditions exist.
The Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry has set limits based on animal studies at which certain chemical concentrations have no observable effects.
I also feel blanket statements such as "plastics leach phthalates" doesn't do any justice...don't get me wrong I can see where your coming from as an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
People are going to use plastic regardless....to disseminate the proper information would be the least we can do. Who knows we may all be in the clear with the amount of phthalates and what type (some are actually pretty benign at high doses) that are really being leached out. I'm in favor of glass but I would be lying to say I haven't used it!
 
Thats a good idea of researching plastic leech with mass spectrometry. The problem is that all of these tests cost money and time and effort. So they may happen, but dont hold your breath while waiting :)

I think though, that you guys (girls?) are actually missing the important point that was touched on earlier, which is, while plastic may all around us, it is a COMPLETELY different thing to talk about consuming a product which was achieved by using a non-polar solvent that was stored or came in contact with the plastic. People using aromatic or hallogenated solvents or people doing warm pulls are clearly at more risk. Unsafe and honestly stupid suggestions like using ziplocks as separatory funnels (as seen around the net in some teks) add a lot to the risks, as well as others in general using unknown type of plastics or plastics known to be incompatible with given solvent.

Also, saying plastic is all around us is a "bail out card" that could be used for justifying anything unhealthy or negative. What is the limit to this kind of argument? "Oh whats the problem of smoking cigarretes, we're anyways daily being subjected to toxic compounds from cars or potential dna-mutating cosmic rays".. Or "whats the problem of throwing this toxic product down the river, the industries anyways already polute the world way more than me". I know this is not what you're saying and i can see you are all reasonable people :) but just leading the kind of argument to other contexts and to its logical conclusions. So having some very indications that it could be a problem, and not knowing beyond a reasonable doubt that the problem is in fact insignificant, as well as considering that changing for glass for extractions IS possible and not unreasonably difficult or expensive, why not?

I know personally I have seen peaks of phthalates in mass spectra of extracted alkaloids, but I cannot say for sure from what part of the process the phthalates have come and exact amounts, because I wasnt controlling those variables, my focus was another one and the products were not to be consumed.

I think 'disseminating proper information' is what we are doing, dont you?

Nobody is saying for others absolutely to not use plastics or inventing horror tales, we are just saying the facts and, while we havent studied the exact variables and amounts of leeched components to then be able to extrapolate safety conclusions from known toxicity data, I think it's better to err on the side of caution and advice against using plastics for extractions, as we have done in this thread.
 
Well said!! I'm all in favor of using only glass and I'm also well in favor of more information and not so quickly to jump to any conclusions without it, however like you said its better to error on the side of caution until more information is available. Another reason to extract yourself.
 
so once after adding the non-polar solvent when i went to mix it the glass bottle i was using boke almost as soon as i tightened the lid causing a huge mess not to mention just how dangerous of a situation that potentially was. im no expeert and dont claim to really understand all of this so maybe i was doing something wrong. but after that happened i decided to buy the best borosilicate glass i could and haven't had a problem since so i think its important to say that just because your using glass doesnt make it completely safe. i would never use a mason jar for any part of this. i think that a person needs to invest a little if you plan on trying to do this. but perhaps thats just my opinion and experience
 
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