Using spice for therapy and tapering off harmful drugs

[The Gnome]

When it comes to using psychedelics, I have always said quality over quantity..I always thought that using a high dose once or twice a year at most was better than smaller doses multiple times a year. I have always respected psychedelics and used them on VERY rare occasion... But recently I started smoking very low doses of spice every day or every other day because I have been feeling a little on edge... Im tapering off both benzos and opiates. On top of that I cant smoke ganja because of a job... So I decided to try smoking 10mg of spice at night, and have done this about 6-7 times in the last two weeks. At the minimal doses that are being used, I have found it to help with the urges of getting high(which is something I have been having difficulty with the last 10 years)... It helped me cut down on the doses of benzos and suboxone in a short span of time, which IMO is absolutely astounding!!! When smoking it, small hits are taken so the effects are JUST hitting the threshold.

I have not experienced any negative side effects from doing this, but it took a heck of a LOT of personal convincing to use a psychedelic this often even though it is being used for therapy and at low doses. Because like I said, I hold a DEEP respect for all psychedelics, especially DMT. I hold it very close to my heart.

But it would be nice to know if there was any information out there on doing something like this. I would like to hear some personal feedback from people who have used small amounts of DMT almost daily for extended amounts of time(a month or two). Can small amounts of DMT daily or every other day be damaging in any way? Can it alter brain chemistry or anything like that? I am probably going to discontinue this until I get more feedback on it. It still takes me a lot of personal convincing to do it!!! lol

So if you could PM me ANY information, that would be SO helpful to me.

Thank you so much. You guys are SUCH an amazing community and Im very glad to be a part of it.

 

[RayOfLight]

Ive smoked it for extended periods lots of times, it helps with everything. If its not causing you any harm that you can tell and its adding value to your life I say smoke it. the only reason I don't smoke it all the time is that when I start smoking it I don't stop until its the next day and that can be very taxing on the system, plus its intimidating as hell.

 

[Metanoia]

I've used many psychedelics as self-therapy for many years. Also for medicinal purposes. Low doses of mushrooms keep me from suffering from cluster headaches. Salvia also helps. I've been using Salvia less often since my love affair with changa, but I almost always put some plain leaf Salvia into my mixes. I smoked changa every night for two weeks and felt no ill effects, quite the contrary. I was generally more calm and relaxed in my everyday life, and started to notice different points of view/perspectives that I might not have otherwise. I guess a sort of empathy with certain people who I didn't necessarily feel close to before.

Like has been said, if you feel it's helping you, all the power to you. If you feel like you're becoming dependent on it, or that you're doing it for the wrong reasons, then by all means, put it aside for a while.

I would have to say DMT is much preferable to an opiate addiction. You're likely to damage your body more with opiates than low doses of DMT, at least in my opinion.

 

[Toloache]

Wouldn't some iboga sessions be more beneficial to addiction than smoking spice? But if spice is helping you cutting down medications do it, spice is a lot better on the body than benzos...

 

[SKA]

While Iboga is more commonly known to be a drug-habit breaker, ayahuasca is known to liberate people
from ruthless addictions too, like heroin, opiate & alcohol addictions. So it makes sense that
smoked spice has the same effect. Also smoking spice is alot safer than ingesting Iboga bark
from what I understand.

I too used to be quite dependant on benzos; the "medicines" I was prescribed for years by "doctors".
I quit many years ago with great trouble, but with help from Cannabis, Spice, the occasional Mushroom
trip & the occasional LSD trip I liberated myself from the need to keep eating benzo's dayly. (Some "doctors" huh?)

I had been taking benzos for MANY years as anti-psychotic & anti-ADHD medication and quiting was allways a scary thing,
but I am so glad to have rid myself of this addiction I was talked into by Psychiatrists publishing the profitable poisons of the Pharmacological corporations.

I am free for many many years now. Since I quit Life has color, taste & meaning again.
And Spice, Cannabis, LSD & Mushrooms still have a big role in my life today,
as therapuitic tools of great significance.

 

[The Gnome]

Wouldn't some iboga sessions be more beneficial to addiction than smoking spice? But if spice is helping you cutting down medications do it, spice is a lot better on the body than benzos...

If I had access to iboga, god knows I would utilize it! I almost went to an Ibogaine clinic in Mexico, but because of financial issues it was not possible.

 

[MomentOfTruth]

I find low doses to be quite relaxing most of the time. And i could definitely see how it would help fight off the urge to do opiates or other drugs. Something i have also struggled with.

Other times I take a very low dose and it instantly turns my stomach. My stomach is pretty finicky as it is, but i've definitely noticed the weird gastrointestinal effects on the first hit many times.

As far as regularly dosing with DMT. In my experience i have felt like i was going shizo at times where i've used dmt regularly. Where i start coming out of trips and being in a different house in which i can identify everything, but its all slightly wrong. Slightly different. Like i woke up in another dimension or i'm perceiving a glitch in the matrix or something. I've sat there and watched items that i use every single day change right in front of my eyes multiple times, clear as day, not unlike a hallucination. More like reality itself is shifting(or what i normally percieve as reality i guess). I've looked into the mirror well after a dmt dose and watched my head change gender/ethnicity/age/size/shape/hairstyle/facial hair like it was rotating every possible human head combination possible onto my own body.

Some of these effects start to wear on me with continual use and i start thinking crazy shit. So i usually stick to doing dmt whenever i get the urge to actually do it. Oftentimes i'll even get the urge and not follow through when it comes down to it. I really have to be in the right headspace and have to be very comfortable before i blast any amount of spice.

 

[null24]

Hey man, right on, on total agreement here. I've been posting allot on this subject on the last few days, in fact chilled out cuz I'm tired of looking at my face all down the side of the healing advice sub forum.
I have been able to achieve great insight onto my drug use through, lo and behold, psychedelic drugs.
No the irony is not lost on me.
Over the last two and a half years, I've been micro dosing cyans i harvested last season, smoking spice when i need insight, and daily pot.
I shot heron for25.years, done the while stupid thing, but through thus regimen, or through it's application, it's kinda tought me how to use it itself,iykwim.
smoking spice showed me that i have a relationship with drugs, that does not have to include abuse.
I use done drugs as a hedonist, others as entheogens. Some as both.
I do not take any kind of medications other than an asthma inhaler, and the methadone, which should be done this month.
I have been preparing for an iboga healing when I'm done, stay with me people, I'm gonna need yall here, hard, real soon.

 

[null24]

Thanks man, I'm sure I'll take you up on that. I have been hearing that ibogaine y isn't as efficacious with methadone, and have been advised to do a short acting opiate, prolly heroin, being the only accessible one for me, what do you know about that?
I'm sure i could do that relatively safely, which in my case is , otherwise inadvisable.
I have another thread going on here,re: 12 steps, and have done new ideas I'd like to toss about over there, regarding a novel, anti-fellowship, for support.
Take a look if you want, I'm fixing to post something over there rather than start a new thread...

 

[TOXSIN]

I dunno about daily for months... But I've done daily low dose for at least a week and been alright, when I first started extracting I was still nervous and getting a feeling for DMT, you know testing the waters, so I would do like 5-10 MG at a time and just scoop more in with the tip of a razor blade every few mins to toke never enough to break through but a definite difference just to test those waters, sometimes I like low dose DMT it energizes me. For instance when I do it now adays at a low dose I take my trusty bowl and some weed, sprinkle ontop of the weed, drop about 30 MG on there and slowly toke this bowl over the course of about 15 mins - 30 mins and sometimes I get patterning for a short time, other times I just get barely noticeable effects visually but I've never had anything long term happening I do agree with one of the other posters though sometimes its weird and I come back feeling like something is just ever so slightly off and its hard to describe, when I reach that point I usually just stop for the night or for a while depending on how bad that feeling is. But low dose for me is usually very anti depressing, it just lifts me up a bit like I get the tingly warm feeling without the crazy head trip and colors, but hell sometimes you need a psychedelic slap in the face too.

 

[voyaj]

Only bad side effect I have seen (and yes, let's be honest DMT does have some strange, yet awesome side effects) is going to work
the next day thinking about how awesome it was. It spaces me out, slows & calms me down. I get a huge afterglow, so positive, os much love inside.

DMT is definitely not the choice drug for capitalism with it's "go hard or go home" attitude. So, it can be jarring being in that headspace whilst your work is like a constant war-zone and you are just sitting there saying "Yeah" "OK" with a huge grin thinking "Nothing can stress me out after that!" But, also thinking "Man, these people need to calm down!!"

DMT just makes me want to chill and know everything is and forever will be more than alright.

 

[null24]

This is a great discussion. I am heartened by support I see all around me, as often reported here on the nexus.
Rational approach to drug policy, exit strategy for the drug war,etc.
But one of the coolest things, are all the people here who have been able to beat these powerful addictions through the use of psychedelics.
I have no credentials, other than my experience with this effective healing route, from f decades of heroin and benzo abuse, and as a writer, but I am in the process of putting together a book, with the help of a very special teacher, hopefully for publication.
I feel, with a great degree of passion, that the legitimatization of psychedelics for therapy is going to be a huge issue, soon, once the"secret"gets out.
I'll be unveiling some of this project here, with trav's and everyone's permission.
I think the input and backing of the nexus on this project can make for the beginnings of a revolution, of Love.

 

[Calaquendi]

Halloo friends, I really like this thread - hits Home to me in so many ways.

I think you guys are on the right track considering iboga/ibogaine for addiction interruption... it is THE tool for the job. I also think (and have experienced this myself) that some mild withdrawal attenuation from low-dose DMT smoking is possible, and even with higher dose sessions. But in the main, this seems to have the most profound and lasting benefits after a flood. IMO the most (DMT) can do on its own for those of us who are or were 'hardcore' addicts, is to provide a temporary and very brief reprieve: a fleeting 'escape', though this isn't at all bad - but it's truly just a band-aid and does not, nor cannot (IMO) really effectively address the primary biochemical or even psycho-spiritual concerns that are at the foundation of the multifaceted mind f**k that is addiction.

Spice, as we fo sho know - can enlighten us to things we may have buried deep in our 'Shadow' and that itself is no small thing, but only iboga can do the specific neuronal re-wiring it is famous for - the only thing I know of that can come close to ibogaine's anti-addictive/habit breaking virtues - would be determined, repeated dosing of ayahuasca - which indeed has intrinsic anti addictive properties that are well known to Western science and have even been empirically observed/documented [sorry no citation]. Yet even mighty Yage is not the addiction breaker that a flood of iboga is.

DMT, mushrooms, ayahuasca, and kambo* are excellent and efficacious peripheral instruments we can incorporate into a personal, individually tailored treatment process. Cannabis is also very valuable ( ) especially immediately post flood.

The ibogoids in T.iboga root bark, total-alkaloid extracts and PTA extracts (as well as ibogaine Hcl itself) - have unique properties which literally 'RESET' some very specific neuron-pathways and this reset has an immediate and tangible affect on our cognitive responses to stimuli which would have otherwise proven difficult if not impossible to negotiate - I am talking about what addicts refer to as 'triggers' - people, places, things and situations which would elicit that knee-jerk reaction to pick up and use our DOC...ibogaine is especially suited to the opiate detox paradigm.

I have flooded quite a few times and done countless other modes of administration with varying degrees of success and mixed results... thus - as with anything - it all really depends on US, whether or not we are surely and completely READY to quit. We may NEED to quit, or even want to want to quit - but this a subtle and insidious business - addiction - and it won't go away quietly or nicely... Yea, lucky for us, iboga is a dragon slayer.
And [pre or post session] recovery incorporating DMT as an adjunct to ibogaine treatment is wholly appropriate IMHO. And it sure feels grrrrreat. Plus it's delicious.

As I am sure you're aware there are some dangers around iboga work that must be heeded earnestly. Ibogaine demands serious inquiries only. To my own uncertain and incomplete knowledge, this is the only entheogen with an indisputable mortality rate in associated use. This is not conjecture or urban legend propaganda, I wish it were - there are cases of deaths (proven) directly related to iboga/ibogaine use. It can, and still is, arguable whether or not any poor soul who's paid that price was misusing the Medicine, or what have you. Any number of things could be the culprit - likely it is a culmination of elements that manifest during a flood, and are not, perhaps, observed in time by the sitter/facilitator. Theories - and blame games abound, particularly in the underground community of 'providers' working clandestinely in places where iboga is prohibited.

Research is paramount and if I may offer one piece of parting advice it is this: the number-one [and ironically, most easily prevented] mistake is to rush into iboga detox, or hurry things along...I understand this, I dig the desperation and desire to get it the hell done, but friends, please take iboga very seriously, do your own research and just take your time. It'll happen as it is supposed to I believe. Remember, "Everything is Everything" I love this community...

Keep up the good work, and best of luck! :thumb_up: ~Cal

 

[Sabnock]

I quit smoking Tobacco thanks to Ayahuasca. Last year a couple weeks before my 22nd birthday i ordered my Rue and Mimosa. I was a very curious beast when it came to Ayahuasca and really enjoyed working with it, enjoyed it so much in fact i was taking it atleast twice a week (but seemed more like every night or so) for the rest of the year. The reason for my repetitive use though was because i felt like working with Ayahuasca, instead of it simply working on me, if that makes sense, i felt like continued use was the best thing for me and the purging and gastrointestinal issues didn't deter me any from it's use though while i didn't mind the purging that much, the gastrointestinal issues tore my stomach up (i already have gut issues and no gallbladder).

So during my use last year, each and every time i would also smoke Cannabis and Tobacco throughout the experience. Cannabis helps with my Aspergers, and Tobacco was just a nasty habit i picked up during my teens and had been smoking the Tobacco for about 7 years so it was of course within the daily mindset that i just had to have a cigarette here and there throughout my day. Anyways, after repeated use through most of last year, it was then X-mas day and i only had a little bit of Tobacco left, enough for the rest of the night, and instead of doing the usual and going to get more Tobacco, i instead simply woke up the next day, smoked my Cannabis and completely left Tobacco behind in the past.

Ayahuasca, for whatever reason, reset/refreshed my mindset, completely broke me out of the Tobacco addiction, with zero withdrawal effects or even cravings, it was a cold turkey kind of decision and is def. a memory i'll never forget. It still surprises me to this very day, almost 9 full months Tobacco free, that i was able to quit so dang easily. I've even been around people smoking it and haven't had one single craving at all since i quit. And i was one of those guys who kept saying for the longest time i was gonna quit smoking but never really put any real effort into it except to try to see how long i could go without it which wasn't long lol, but then Ayahuasca came and broke my addiction to it like it was a piece of cake.

And here lately, i've even actually considered giving up Cannabis, at least for a little bit, but in the end i feel it should stay right where it is in my life, because it helps with my Aspergers and helps to quickly relieve my gut issues. The only reason i was thinking about quitting Cannabis was because the money, i feel, could be more put towards Ayahuasca stuff, but then again, Ayahuasca and Cannabis work in a synergy for me, where if i'm taking Ayahuasca or smoking Changa, Cannabis has to be there, Cannabis is my Mapacho

So here i am, on September 25th i'll be 9 full months Tobacco free, and i'm loving every minute of it and won't ever go back to Tobacco, i'm that confident. I pretty much stopped using Ayahuasca towards the beginning of this year, and partook in a few Pharma experiences with Moclobemide and Mimosa, then i moved onto Changa which at first seemed like it was what i was searching for (a easy access to semi-Ayahuasca-like feelings) but atlast i have come full circle and really want to start taking Ayahuasca again, probably once a week on Friday nights, or maybe for the weekends. This time though, i'm going to try making my very own Ayahuasca tincture (one tincture of Harmalas and another for the Mimosa/Acacia extracts) for both oral and sublingual use. And i'm hoping to be able to start drinking very strong Lemon Balm teas that i can simply drop a ml or a half ml of each tincture into, and drink down 2 small, very strong cups of Lemon Balm tea one with Harmalas and the other 15 to 30 minutes later with the Mimosa/Acacia. Lemon Balm provides a nice relaxative feel and also apparently aids in gastrointestinal issues (which is a big help when it comes to something like Ayahuasca's gut busting features lol).

I wanna actually try to create my own Ayahuasca-like recipes and maybe 10 years or so from now, if it's acceptable here in the US by then due to the science behind it, i would wish to actually provide Ayahuasca-like ceremonies, though it wouldn't be original or traditional and would probably be my own type of ceremony, though i'm not sure if i have what it takes to pull it all off by myself and would def. have partners that would help out. Though i also still have quite a long way to go before i would feel mature/responsible enough to do such a thing, all in good time though i suppose.

 

[Rifle]

I'm really glad to hear this discussion of lower dosages. DMT has been amazing for me and I've never broken through, but with the right mindset and closed eyes I've been able to encounter many of things people speak of w/ breakthroughs: aliens, god, elves, etc. Never had a bad trip w/ it, though sometimes things would get weird to the point that I would somehow remember I had a body and would open my eyes (one time an elf handed me a gun; I felt fine, but also felt like it wasn't territory I needed to continue to explore) to bring me back to my room. When I first started I would do DMT about every other day.

Now, it could be partially due to coincidence, but DMT definitely helped me a bunch when I first started doing it, and in the year since my life has really turned around, especially wiht respect to my normal psychological state, and I feel like it's due to DMT. If I ever get in a funk I turn to DMT and it turns me around. I think low doses of DMT are an under-appreciated thing.

 

[Tranzcentral]

DMT has very much helped me stop using cocaine very recently.
My last breakthrough was so amazing, and after it i could not even look at the flake again, its now put away and its as though its not even there, besides its a very small amount so all good there.

That day i went to hyperspace, i smoked all up around 100mg of my newly extracted spice.
The first 2 hits were around 25-30mg, then the last would have been easily 50+mg which took me away from mind and body.

So it really helped me, for i realized i was going down a path which was not good for my health, mind and body.

Whatever the substance...it must be respected, and moderation is the key.
With the DMT, i had so much clarity of thought, everything was made clear...i have now stopped smoking weed, so my DMT will be there for another day.

I have a friend who is dying to try it, i laughed when he offered me money for it, i said no way will you pay for this, this is magic right here, and i offer it gladly. He has always wanted to try DMT, and he kind of spun out when i told him i have just extracted some very special spice.

Its been 2 days now since i stopped smoking, and i'm feeling great. Its going to take awhile longer, but what can i say, DMT has really helped me, and i'm looking forward to getting back to basics.