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Vanity and Fake People

Migrated topic.
tseuq said:
[Let's open our cages by droping every last assumption, expectation, definition of what and how ever I am and what and how ever I am not and let us see that we are all of that and not.]
Well, what a nice idea.

Who gets to be the first to claim to have dropped every last assumption, expectation, definition, etc.?

Maybe we should all drop acid instead? Then again, I can still be an argumentative bitch on acid too, btw. Probably not the only one here..

PS: Oh, and because this year's theme is "shamanism", I'm pretty certain already that there will be no display of vanity at all! Woohoo!
 
anne halonium said:
Bodhisativa said:
I relinquished all negativity a long time ago. Since then, I really haven't gotten angry, jealous, arrogant or vain. At all.

i suspect an imposter has seized control of bods acct.

What makes you say that? Why is it so hard to believe?

I've seen some really messed up shit as a child. REALLY messed up. When you see stuff like that, you start to question what it means to be human. I came to the conclusion. We are creatures born of love, born to give love. That's what I live my life by. I'd rather lay down my life than give up on that tenet.

I am by no means close to enlightenment. Nirvana, Heaven, Dreamtime, God. Whatever you call it.

If you don't believe me, that's cool. Doesn't stop me from loving. All I want to do is learn. And boy has this thread taught me a lot.
 
i suspect people often use vanity as a slur for success.

the collapse and stratification of the west,
has left alot of people wanting and needy.
theres always this undercurrent of "OMG she has TWO shoes and socks",
that makes it out like anyone supplied and safe is suddenly a vanity hound.

thing is some of us are winning in the new age, and pretty pleased about it,
and ,were not afraid of treasure or success.

oddly , this is more prevalent in the first world.
you would think when you swoop thru a third world ghetto with a motorcade and treasure,
youd be socially assaulted at least..........( or worse, and sometimes you are)
but
the real danger is having 4 socks and 4 shoes in a place like scandanavia where people are all commie equal...........
those people will attack you hard for only 3 socks............
anything over 2 , is obviously vain and elitist ya know.

point is, IMO , half of vanity, is an excuse to diss success .

i have 34 pairs of shoes.
many are choos...........think thats vain?
allow me to introduce imelda marcos............

vain, depends on where you are in the treasure spectra.........
 
anne halonium said:
i suspect people often use vanity as a slur for success.
If your achievements give you personal satisfaction, that's not vain. If you need other people's acknowledgement of your achievement in a public display of "success", then yes, I'd call that vain. Actually I pity people whose inner sense of achievement is incomplete without the acknowledgement, whether willingly or begrudgingly, from other people.

anne halonium said:
i have 34 pairs of shoes.
Lol. I have more shoes than you. But all of them together cost me probably less than some of your pairs. I get them cheap at the second hand shop. Excellent quality shoes of the finest leather, some never even worn. Most people don't want these shoes anymore it seems, not fashionable or hip enough or whatever. I also have some decades old military shoes (and other clothing) that are just great quality.
 
pitubo said:
Who gets to be the first to claim to have dropped every last assumption, expectation, definition, etc.?

To me, this sounds more like a provocation. :twisted:

I think we all have to deal with more or less the same feelings (the layout might look different but the context roots in the same principles/desires), so we can stop pretending to do not so.

I experience this "dropping" as a continously and conscious process in the now, not as a state. I, and I think we all experience it similar, have to deal with all my/our assumptions, expectations, wishes, vanity, anger, fear,... in any way, always when they show up in the now.

But, the difference might appear in the way of how each of us is dealing with it. How do you cope with it?


pitubo said:
Then again, I can still be an argumentative bitch on acid too, btw. Probably not the only one here..

Haha, yes pitubo, that sounds like a lot of fun! I am already giggeling when I imagine this picture in my mind.


pitubo said:
PS: Oh, and because this year's theme is "shamanism", I'm pretty certain already that there will be no display of vanity at all! Woohoo!

So what? I think we'll have a great time together. More over, it doesn't matter where we meet, ... it is us, all the time.

:lol:

tseuq
 
pitubo said:
Lol. I have more shoes than you.
But all of them together cost me probably less than some of your pairs.

its only vain when its about the cost.
if cost isnt a factor,
then shoes shine with halos, just for being SHOES.

i see you see the light pitubo:thumb_up:
 
Responding to the OP.

Your post reminds me so much of the book 'The Catcher in the Rye'.

Below are some quotes from the book.


“Among other things, you'll find that you're not the first person who was ever confused and frightened and even sickened by human behavior. You're by no means alone on that score, you'll be excited and stimulated to know. Many, many men have been just as troubled morally and spiritually as you are right now. Happily, some of them kept records of their troubles. You'll learn from them—if you want to. Just as someday, if you have something to offer, someone will learn something from you. It's a beautiful reciprocal arrangement. And it isn't education. It's history. It's poetry.”


“Then the carousel started, and I watched her go round and round...All the kids tried to grap for the gold ring, and so was old Phoebe, and I was sort of afraid she'd fall off the goddam horse, but I didn't say or do anything. The thing with kids is, if they want to grab for the gold ring, you have to let them do it, and not say anything. If they fall off, they fall off, but it is bad to say anything to them.”


“Anyway, I keep picturing all these little kids playing some game in this big field of rye and all. Thousands of little kids, and nobody's around - nobody big, I mean - except me. And I'm standing on the edge of some crazy cliff. What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff - I mean if they're running and they don't look where they're going I have to come out from somewhere and catch them. That's all I do all day. I'd just be the catcher in the rye and all. I know it's crazy, but that's the only thing I'd really like to be.”



P.S. I noticed JDSalinger responded to your post as well. 😉
 
DmnStr8 said:
Responding to the OP.
“Anyway, I keep picturing all these little kids playing some game in this big field of rye and all. Thousands of little kids, and nobody's around - nobody big, I mean - except me. And I'm standing on the edge of some crazy cliff. What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff - I mean if they're running and they don't look where they're going I have to come out from somewhere and catch them. That's all I do all day. I'd just be the catcher in the rye and all. I know it's crazy, but that's the only thing I'd really like to be.”[/i]

A Shaman?
A Mystic?
 
"I vow not to talk about the faults of others." In the Zen tradition, this is one of the bodhisattva vows. For fully ordained monastics the same principle is expressed in the payattika vow to abandon slander. It is also contained in the Buddha’s recommendation to all of us to avoid the ten destructive actions, the fifth of which is using our speech to create disharmony.http://thubtenchodron.org/2011/06/harmonious-speech/

-eg
 
I vow not to talk about the faults of others." In the Zen tradition, this is one of the bodhisattva vows. For fully ordained monastics the same principle is expressed in the payattika vow to abandon slander. It is also contained in the Buddha’s recommendation to all of us to avoid the ten destructive actions, the fifth of which is using our speech to create disharmony.

The motivation

What an undertaking! I can’t speak for you, the reader, but I find this very difficult. I have an old habit of talking about the faults of others. In fact, it’s so habitual that sometimes I don’t realize I’ve done it until afterwards.

What lies behind this tendency to put others down? One of my teachers, Geshe Ngawang Dhargye, used to say, "You get together with a friend and talk about the faults of this person and the misdeeds of that one. Then you go on to discuss others’ mistakes and negative qualities. In the end, the two of you feel good because you’ve agreed you’re the two best people in the world."

When I look inside, I have to acknowledge he’s right. Fueled by insecurity, I mistakenly think that if others are wrong, bad, or fault-ridden, then in comparison I must be right, good, and capable. Does the strategy of putting others down to build up my own self-esteem work? Hardly.

Another situation in which we speak about others’ faults is when we’re angry with them. Here we may talk about their faults for a variety of reasons. Sometimes it’s to win other people over to our side. "If I tell these other people about the argument Bob and I had and convince them that he is wrong and I’m right before Bob can tell them about the argument, then they’ll side with me." Underlying that is the thought, "If others think I’m right, then I must be." It’s a weak attempt to convince ourselves we’re okay when we haven’t spent the time honestly evaluating our own motivations and actions.

At other times, we may talk about others’ faults because we’re jealous of them. We want to be respected and appreciated as much as they are. In the back of our minds, there’s the thought, "If others see the bad qualities of the people I think are better than me, then instead of honoring and helping them, they’ll praise and assist me." Or we think, "If the boss thinks that person is unqualified, she’ll promote me instead." Does this strategy win others’ respect and appreciation? Hardly.

Some people "psychoanalyze" others, using their half-baked knowledge of pop psychology to put someone down. Comments such as "he’s borderline" or "she’s paranoid" make it sound as if we have authoritative insight into someone’s internal workings, when in reality we disdain their faults because our ego was affronted. Casually psychoanalyzing others can be especially harmful, for it may unfairly cause a third party to be biased or suspicious.

The results

What are the results of speaking of others’ faults? First, we become known as a busybody. Others won’t want to confide in us because they’re afraid we’ll tell others, adding our own judgments to make them look bad. I am cautious of people who chronically complain about others. I figure that if they speak that way about one person, they will probably speak that way about me, given the right conditions. In other words, I don’t trust people who continuously criticize others.

Second, we have to deal with the person whose mistakes we publicized when they find out what we said, which, by the time they hear it, has been amplified in intensity. That person may tell others our faults in order to retaliate, not an exceptionally mature action, but one in keeping with our own actions.

Third, some people get stirred up when they hear about others’ faults. For example, if one person at an office or factory talks behind the back of another, everyone in the workplace may get angry and gang up on the person who has been criticized. This can set off backbiting throughout the workplace and cause factions to form. Is this conducive for a harmonious work environment? Hardly.

Fourth, are we happy when our mind picks faults in others? Hardly. When we focus on negativities or mistakes, our own mind isn’t very happy. Thoughts such as, "Sue has a hot temper. Joe bungled the job. Liz is incompetent. Sam is unreliable," aren’t conducive for our own mental happiness.

Fifth, by speaking badly of others, we create the cause for others to speak badly of us. This may occur in this life if the person we have criticized puts us down, or it may happen in future lives when we find ourselves unjustly blamed or scapegoated. When we are the recipients of others’ harsh speech, we need to recall that this is a result of our own actions: we created the cause; now the result comes. We put negativity in the universe and in our own mindstream; now it is coming back to us. There’s no sense being angry and blaming anyone else if we were the ones who created the principal cause of our problem.

Speaking of the faults of others - Thubten Chodron

-eg
 
Anamnesia said:
DmnStr8 said:
Responding to the OP.
“Anyway, I keep picturing all these little kids playing some game in this big field of rye and all. Thousands of little kids, and nobody's around - nobody big, I mean - except me. And I'm standing on the edge of some crazy cliff. What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff - I mean if they're running and they don't look where they're going I have to come out from somewhere and catch them. That's all I do all day. I'd just be the catcher in the rye and all. I know it's crazy, but that's the only thing I'd really like to be.”[/i]

A Shaman?
A Mystic?

Don't we all want to catch someone from going off the cliff? It's in our nature. That reaction. That sudden reflex to reach out and stop them from going over the edge. Complete empathy in that moment. Are we all shamans and mystics in that regard?

Maybe when we see vanity and other shortcomings of other we have a reaction to want to save them from it, because we recognize the cliff is there. We recognize it because it is part of ourselves.

People are mirrors.
 
OK, I think that is enough of this thread as well.

Now how about a "Happiness and Awesome People" counterthread?

Or maybe some research? Just a thought.
 
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