Vape mod dmt eliquid calculations, just some math I did.

[MonkeyoftheSpice]

Oh guys I'm pretty new here so I donno if this is the best place for this information and I don't think I've been granted access to post in the proper sections yet. I do apologize if I am wrong in my assumption I just figured I needed to share this to help with more proper dosage of this roa

Ok, here goes. I've been vaping for about a month now and I dove head first into it hard learning as much as possible about it in a short time. I had the idea of making dmt e juice a while back before the subohm tanks had become popular (I used to vape when it was just the ego pens and ecigs and ended up going back to smoking for several years) but after lurking the nexus I couldn't find any good info on it. Now however with the advantage of sub ohm clearamizers it seems a few people here on the nexus has done quite a bit of experimenting themselves and I've learned quite a bit from them on preparing the spice juice as I like to call it hahaha.

My daily set up for vaping nic is a smok tfv8, I know it's been said on here that that's a monster tank to use for spice but according to my math it should be fine as long as your not taking super long draws.

OK my math, bare with me I know it's a bit unorganized

My tfv8 holds about 6ml of juice including with what's in the coil head
Let's say we have dmt disolved in pg (propylene glycol) at a 6ml/1g ratio to keep things simple
So my mod has a puff counter as a feature and I counted the puffs it would take to vape the whole tank, it was roughly 125 puffs. I probably could have made it to 135 before a dry hit but maybe less but for now we will say 125 puffs per 6ml this will at least ballpark an estimate

6ml÷125puffs=0.048ml/puff
1000mg/6ml=166.6666666667mg/ml or 167 to make it easy this is just a ballpark estimate anyways
167mg/ml×0.048=8.016 mg/puff~

My math might be off so please if you don't agree with what I've come up with let me know I would really like to see if we could figure out a proper dose range for this roa

More info on the tfv8 I was using, I was using the v8-t8 Octo coil head (.15ohm) at 125w and my puffs are usually 2-3 seconds long on average and I do blow into the tank until I see vapor before inhaling (it takes a half sec or less for the vapor to start coming out once the button is pressed)

I realize that the tfv8 is not a beginner tank and if you plan on using this roa to administer to others that don't vape normally you should probably use a different tank and coil set up that doesn't produce as much vapor. 125w with this coil head is really cool though but it still produces a ton of vapor and some ppl can't inhale let alone hold that much vapor in.

I have not actually tryed this set up for this roa as I don't have any more spice at the moment to try it with but I will report back once I've had the chance to try it out.

 

[ducdevil]

MonkeyOfTheSpice -

what a great post - thanks so much for sharing. if you search around, you'll see i've posted a bunch on this subject and ROA. i appreciate you sharing your research!

DAMN! 150w with a TFV8? that's pretty epic. i use that tank a lot when vaping straight; i cannot imagine vaping spice with that volume of cloud. impressive!

i still enjoy the same ratio as you, but using either an Arctic tank at .2ohm or a Herekles at .6ohm. i usually don't go past 50-60watts and have had great success. the fact that you calculated mg per puff is pretty helpful. great work!

and, may i say, as a cat person - that is the best avatar photo i've yet seen here. LOVE IT!

cheers :thumb_up:

 

[Silly(c)One]

Thanks for this post

I got myself an eLeaf Pico (75W) with Melo III mini tanks (2ml reservoir, and 0.3 Ohm and 0.5 Ohm coils) yesterday.
It's my first contact with e-cigs, I made the jump because they started selling cannabis e-juice at my cannabis club (in Spain) and I really want to quit smoking joints.
I've tried vaporising weed with all kind of devices (Volcano, DaBuddahVaporiser, iolite, GVG, ...) but I wasn't satisfied by the smoking sensation after 20+ years of daily joints smoking... until recently a friend at the club gave me an "modern" e-cig loaded with Sour Diesel e-juice : instant love

Then I remembered the discussions here at the Nexus a few years back about vaporising DMT in e-juice, but they didn't lead to much as the technology behind vaping was not very advanced. As I was interested in anything e-cig while shopping for my device, I found this great thread : The Essential DMT Guide - DMT Discussion - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus where your threads, ducdevil, were compiled... Wow, thank you so much for reporting your precious experiences

So I went back to the vape shop and got bases : 50/50 and 30/70 (PG/VG), which, mixed together at the same ratio, will make a 40/60 mix to put some DMT in

Based on your calculations, MonkeyoftheSpice, guessing you're a heavy toker (2-3 seconds at 0.15 Ohm / 125W must produce a fairly high amount of vapor), and knowing I'm not, I'd be better off with a much higher concentration of spice than the 1:6 advised by ducdevil ?
I need between 15mg and 25mg to break through with the GVG in one big puff, so at 20mg for one puff, that would mean 620mg in 1.5ml (or a bit less to count for the volume of the DMT), which is 1:2.5 DMT to base ratio.

A question I have is : do DMT benefits from lower resistances and higher voltages ?
It vaporises at 160°C anyways.
I did a few tests with 0.3 Ohm SS coils in temperature control mode ; the pico was running at full 75W, and with the temp set to 190°C, it would lit up for less than a second before getting to that temperature and cut off.
The tank stayed very hot to the touch for a while after only 2 short vapes.
My concern is that at low resistance and high wattages, the coils becomes to hot to fast and the DMT would keep evaporating from the juice...
That doesn't happen when I vape at 0.3/35-40W.

As always, only experience will tell
To be followed...

 

[sbc1]

Let us know how use both get on, you'll love it

 

[MonkeyoftheSpice]

Haha yeah I've read your posts ducdevil you're my main source of knowledge on this roa, as well as the many people who've commented in your thread. It's all been extremely helpful. Oh and I was vaping at 125w on my tfv8 I can't really take it past 135 it get to be to much after that, I was just including that the coil says it's best in the 120-150w range. I think when I try this out in my tank I will probably throw my x4 coil in it it's rated a bit lower and I usually vape that one at 80w.

I haven't been able to make a legitimate 6/1 ratio yet Ivery only actually played around with this roa once with a lil bit of spice I had left over, roughly 50mg or so probably a bit less. I ended up disolvin that in about .5ml to see what I could do and it worked well. I ended up just using my velocity rda with 28g twisted kanthal coils at around .3-.4 ohms and about 65w for that experiment. I think a tank would be much better for this roa. I feel like it would be more consistent than dripping considering the cotton dried up after 1 or 2 puffs. I'll be doing a small extraction soon so I'll actually have enough to do it proporly.

I tryed to beef up the set up on my velocity with 24/28 kanthal clapton coils and yeah I had a similar problem wit it continuing to vaporize after I let off the button. I find if you use small builds with low resistance wire (I primary have been using gplat 24g. I donno what the alloy content is gplat hasn't released that info.) That the coils cool fast enough to pretty much stop vapor production as soon as you release the button.

I have yet to try temp control because I don't have any temp control wire I generally use kanthal or compitition wire. I do plan on trying to get my hands on a smok helmet tank soon it's alot like the kanger cl tank ducdevil mentioned in his thread, it's pretty much leak proof and has the child lock feature as well I just think it looks cooler and it will fit my mod better because you can get it in 24.5mm or 22mm where the cl tank only comes in 22mm. My mod is a koopor plus tc 200w so it's 24.5mm wide lol

 

[MonkeyoftheSpice]

Oh I also forgot to add on my tfv8 the only reason I could do 2-3 second pulls was because the particular juice I was using its called liquid sunshine it's by pinup vapors it tastes pretty close to sunny d it's an amazing flavor lol on other juice I usually take 1.5-2 second pulls

 

[Silly(c)One]

I made some new experiments today on my pico 75W + Melo III minis (of which I have now 3 ) with different coils (Kanthal 0.3 Ohm ~VW / Kanthal 0.5 Ohm ~VW / Stainless Steel 0.3 Ohm ~VW & TCSS modes) and different juices (lemon /fresh mint @ 6 nic in 70/30 PG/VG, red fruits/fresh mint @ 0 nic in 70/30 and peppermint @ 0 nic in 30/70)

I don't like the taste/sensation of nicotine or PG, much prefer the 70% VG mix, much smoother for my throat and lungs, so I think I'll make my DMT fluid with 70% VG (pure or with a drop of mint concentrate), though to be thorough, I should also taste the 50/50 mix and the 40/60 mix...

My dream would be to make e-changa-juice, and working with other plants spirits to turn it into a real shamanic tool !
I don't want to use 2 tanks, because it wouldn't be practical to swap them for each person in a ceremony (but that would be solved easily by getting another box mod )
It would be interesting to find data (or make data) on solubility of different molecules in VG/PG...

About coils... Initially I found the 0.3 was to hot so I tried the 0.5 and found it a tad to weak
In theory, the juice should be consumed more slowly at 0.5 Ohm, so I guess I'll use the 0.5 for the thc e juice and DMT and the 0.3 for "gourmet" vaping.
I also got some SS 0.3 Ohm coils with big openings on the central cotton wig and are rated at 60-80W !
The pico was set at 75W in TC SS mode, so it would reach high temperatures VERY fast and shut off in less than a second.
When setting the TC at > 250°C, the tank would get to hot to touch in a matter of 2-3 puffs.
I've since made other experiments, setting the max wattage in TC mode at 40-50W and it gets less hot but still a bit much for my taste, so I set it back to Variable Wattage mode and set it at 40/50W. It works just as the standard 0.3 coils in VW.

 

[MonkeyoftheSpice]

I'd really like to see harmalas e juice myself or a changa juice like you mentioned. I'm actually trying my first rue extract to test my skill lol but I donno if I'll try solubility tests this go around. It depends on my yield I guess.

I think I'm going to try this out in my tfv8 as its the only tank I own other than my aromamizer which has a bit of a leaking problem. Not a problem for regular vaping but I definitely don't want to leak spice out.

The prebuilt coils that I have for my tfv8 actually run pretty cool if you keep them on the lower end of what they are rated dispite the fact that it's still higher wattage than what most use. It's not a super cool vape like lower wattage devices but it's definitely not as hot as an rda with the airflow cut back. I donno maybe it's just a preference thing. I guess I'll find out soon enough lol I'll definitely let you guys know how it goes.

Oh and I'll be starting off with a 6/1 ratio and if I feel like it needs to be deluded more because of the higher wattage of my device.

Hehehe all in the name of science lol the only way we'll learn is if we try new ways haha

 

[MonkeyoftheSpice]

Well I did it you guys the tfv8 tank filled with spice juice and let me tell you it worked wonderfully. I ended up using the v8-t8 coil head just because I knew about what the math was for it already. I started out at 100 which is lower than the recommended setting by 20w. At 100w you can slowly climb to the level you want to be at with no problems not to overwhelming or intense with a 1-2 second puff. I decided I would try and see what this coil would produce at 120w after that and for me it was perfect! It was intense but not completely overwhelming, I could have taken 2-3 more puffs if I wanted and lost all touch with reality but I didn't want to go all out this experience since I'm really just testing a tank and had no real intentions other than that.

Oh I will say I had trouble getting the spice to crystalize so I ended up using the goo to make the liquid it was a bit tough to weigh so it's probably not a true 6/1 ratio. It could be anywhere between 4/1 and 8/1. I've never been good at crystallization with spice and I rarely have enough time after an extraction to recrystalize more than once. (I have to travel for my job and I could be gone for weeks before I'm home again.) Sorry I couldn't give more accurate figures but at least we know that high wattage devices will work and you should just prepare your juice to your preferences.

 

[sbc1]

Well done mate its nice to see other people going down this route of administration, keep testing and update with more information

 

[Silly(c)One]

Nice !

I have one question for the ones having experience with e-cig DMT : how long does it take after inhalation for the DMT to be completely active ?
With the GVG, it takes less than 7 seconds after I finished inhaling the vapor for me to breakthrough...
ducdevil said with e-cigs it takes longer than the GVG but how much ?

 

[ducdevil]

i find it's a bit slower than the GVG; maybe by a factor of 2
that's why it's good to go a bit slower and see where it takes you.
e-cig delivery is awesome, but a different path to the same destination...

 

[sindroide]

thanks you all guys... @MonkeyoftheSpice, thanks for your math, that's what I was looking for.

@Silly(c)One so how you going with your pico? I've recently bought the mega kit version that comes with a 0.2ohm notchcoil... and I also wonders about your question. Does dmt benefits from lower coils and higher wattages?

according with @ducdevil it's great with TC between 170-190 and 40-50watts.... so why rasing up? How many puff some need at this conf to breaktrought?

I'm also interested on convervation of this spicy.juicy.... have any of you save it for a long time and try it then?

"It would be interesting to find data (or make data) on solubility of different molecules in VG/PG..." I think this is really important, because the mixture would have differents temp vape.

@Silly(c)One which was the best setting on your pico to properly vape the spice juicy? thanks!

 

[n0thing]

I'd really like to see harmalas e juice myself or a changa juice like you mentioned. I'm actually trying my first rue extract to test my skill lol but I donno if I'll try solubility tests this go around. It depends on my yield I guess.

I just did an experiment and would appreciate your input.

I attempted to dissolve 100mg freebase harmalas in to 2.5ml of Polypropylene Glycol.

At room temperature the particles disperse but remain undissolved (by seeing that the color hasn't changed and I can see particles suspended in solution).

2.5ml = 50 puffs

100mg % 50 = 2mg harmalas per hit

Correct me if I am wrong but I remember reading somewhere that per hit the recommended dose is 3mg of harmalas and that is why they make changa at 300mg/1000mg DMT.

Upon microwaving the solution turn brown and most harmalas dissolved but a few particles could be seen suspended in the solution.

I would assume solubility would much less in Vegetable Glycerin as it is with DMT.

As you can see from this thread, studio1one managed to dissolve 400mg harmalas in 2ml of e-cig solution Harmala administration via e-cig? - Harmalas - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

 

[etho]

I'm very interested in this ROA as I haven't had any success with the more traditional ROAs and I don't want to burn any more spice. I've read many threads on the topic but I'm still a bit confused as to what hardware I should use. I chose an affordable temperature control mod from what seems to be a decent brand. Also, how long do coils last? Should I buy extra coils when buying the tank?

How well would this setup work?
Eleaf iPower 80W 5000mAh TC Mod
Kanger CL Tank (2ml version)
0.5 ohm CLOCC coil (comes with the tank)

Or should I go with this?
Kanger TOPBOX Nano 60W TC Starter Kit
Samsung INR18650-25R 2500mAh battery

Thanks!