Very Very Trippy First Experience

[jbark]

As an aside, Skinwalker's comment above about reality being sbjective and being rewritten in front of us regularly without us noticing is an idea I have encountered several times while chewing fresh Salvia divinorum leaves. We must not forget that reality is far stranger than any of us can imagine, and so we cannot rule anything out, no matter how far fetched it may seem.

The trick is, i believe, that while ruling nothing out, you make very sure that you have ruled something IN. Saying anything is possible is to exhibit an intellectual AND spiritual lethargy and apathy. IOW it is LAZY. Rigourous proof is essential if what you perceive immediately and constantly is to be rightfully challenged. The "consensus" reality is generally accepted because it is a fully working reliable system. It may be incomplete or even false, but to advise someone to ignore it in favour of a reality hinted at in a dream, a vision or a hallucination that is clearly an interpretation of that state is frankly irresponsible AND lazy. And potentially psychologically hazardous for the recipient of that advice. We are in the process of writing a "health and safety" section to the nexus and it is in part, i believe and hope, to minimize this brand of inimical advice.

I know you mean well (both skinwalker and mopz) and i trust you do not take this as a personal attack, but i really must implore you to please think about how your advice may be taken before you type. Telling anyone to dimiss this reality permanently and jump into another can neither be condoned nor tolerated, irrespective of your personal beliefs.

Let's keep this place (and the other one ) as safe as it can be.

Thanks,
JBArk

 

[skinwalker]

"hinted at in a dream, a vision or a hallucination "

i'm confused you believe that while in hyperspace you are in a dream or a hallucination? If so why not just stick to LSD or boozing yourself to hallusinate? DMT is completely and utterly different than any silly "hallucination" i've ever experienced. I'm not sure and cannot speak to your personal experience, but regarding mine i was left with the enduring impression that what you term as a hallusination, was in fact far more real that the reality i live in daily.

"Telling anyone to dimiss this reality permanently and jump into another can neither be condoned nor tolerated"

also my advice was never to dive in with both feet into the alternative reality but simply to explore/question the possability of its validity. How is this not sound and safe advice? Potentially his/her soul is whitering and suffering in a parallel plane and you advice to ignore it?

The entire purpose of this DMT experience in my opinion is to explore these unanswered nether regions of our souls.

 

[jbark]

you should follow the advice of your real wife (the one in your trip) and do what 99% of people in vegatative states never do, and WAKE UP, return to your real reality. You know in your heart she wasnt lying. There is currently another you laying comatose on a bed somewhere while she has a broken heart taking care of you. Your soul(?) divided after the accident and your consciousness entered this safer reality. I would be VERY open minded and ask alot of questions (if you can) when you return, you will have quite a story to share with the world (who wont believe you) once you return to your correct dimension/reality.

With all due respect, if that isn't telling someone to "dive in", i don't know what is...

Insofar as your first quote of my words, you included my response: i wrote A dream ,vision OR hallucination. I can add possible alternate reality if you like, but it doesn't alter the danger inherent in your position. By all means consider all possibilities, but act on the safer one, the one that is least subject to interpretation and provides the most immediate and consistent proof of its validity.

Advising anyone otherwise is mischievous or naive. Remark again that i am not taking the material realist high road - i acknowledge your stance and its potential validity, i am simply warning you to exercise caution when advising a dangerous course of action for someone based solely on supposition and YOUR interpretation of a vision recounted in a few short lines of script by someone you dont know. Just common sense IMHO.

Nuff said. I think i have made my words plain and my position clear.

JBArk

 

[skinwalker]

Advising anyone otherwise is mischievous or naive. Remark again that i am not taking the material realist high road - i acknowledge your stance and its potential validity, i am simply warning you to exercise caution when advising a dangerous course of action for someone based solely on supposition and YOUR interpretation of a vision recounted in a few short lines of script by someone you dont know. Just common sense IMHO.

i agree with your cautious postion now that you've explained it.

Offhand, anyone have any links to this trickster Lady Ayahuasca? I'm intrigued to learn more.

 

[gibran2]

... do what 99% of people in vegatative states never do, and WAKE UP, return to your real reality.

Why the false dichotomy?

Why assume that one reality is real, and the other is a dream or fake? Why can’t they both be real? And if they are both real, then what’s all this stuff about returning? One self is here, another self is there. Exactly where they both belong.

 

[3rdEyePryed]

Well it's witch one you want to live. I picked peace and happyness. And decided to help change the world. So what do you want to do?

 

[88]

Adrian - this is an extraordinary journey, and one that presents you with an enormous challenge. There are many possible interpretations of this, other than the obvious, literal one; and when considering this, look for the interpretation that will benefit you most.

If you take this at face value, and believe that in fact you are in a coma in another version of reality, this may have serious implications for your life. What may follow such a belief is a sense of not belonging here. If this idea takes root in your mind, you may end up going through life feeling like you are not supposed to be here, that it is all false, that nothing here really matters.

As a young person - and particularly as a young person who's dabbling in deep entheogens - you probably know what it's like to feel different to other "normal" people, and to feel that you don't fit in or connect with others.

So there is a real danger here that a literal interpretation will further alienate you from others and lead to you disengaging with the challenges of life in this reality.

I am not surprised that this journey took you to the accident. You describe a complete loss of memory for several days following this trauma. But somewhere in your mind, below the surface, the memory of the experience still exists; and it is in the nature of this entheogen to uncover the underlying structures within your psyche. This was a powerful and traumatic event in your life, and one that probably has had a lasting effect on you - but the loss of memory means its likely you haven't been aware of its full effect on your life.

This is exactly the kind of thing that spice will focus in on. And I do believe that it is fundamentally healing, but medicine can also be poison. Please don't let this make you disengage from the reality you are in. There are relationships you have, serious decisions to be made, and you mustn't think these don't matter because all of this is somehow less real than the coma reality.

If indeed you are in a coma somewhere else, then you have come here for a reason. To learn, perhaps, to have the chance to live that has been denied you. The life we have in this plane, in this density is precious beyond measure. It is the greatest gift, and I hope that you treasure the time you're here, and not waste it wishing you were somewhere else.

You're very young, Adrian, and this is why it's not advisable to take these journeys at such a young age - if you read the transmission wrong, you could really fuck yourself up. Don't let that happen.

Skinwalker: - I find your posts naive, immature and utterly irresponsible. If I was a mod, I'd suspend you. You seem to need absolute certainty, and appear utterly convinced that you have all the answers. Respectfully, I don't think you do.

This need for absolute certainty is usually a function of deep insecurity, and is prevalent in many fundamentalist viewpoints. Consider for a moment that there may be other interpretations that are equally or even more valid than your own. Learn some humility.

I would suggest the next time you write a post, put the words 'I believe' or 'I think' before you state something as fact - it may make you think for a second why you believe this, and also remind you that this is an expression of how things look in your 'reality tunnel', and that other people may see things differently.

Safe travels, all

 

[cellux]

This need for absolute certainty is usually a function of deep insecurity, and is prevalent in many fundamentalist viewpoints. Consider for a moment that there may be other interpretations that are equally or even more valid than your own. Learn some humility.

I would suggest the next time you write a post, put the words 'I believe' or 'I think' before you state something as fact - it may make you think for a second why you believe this, and also remind you that this is an expression of how things look in your 'reality tunnel', and that other people may see things differently.

Agreed.

However, this is very difficult for someone who once really stepped behind THAT curtain. I myself could only manage this situation by splitting myself into two: the fundamentalist who has unshakable faith in what he experienced and the social being who partakes in this earthly game where all views are (or can be) equally valid. It took a long time to accept that somehow both of these could have validity at the same time. I had to use tricks like the idea of "local absolutes" to overcome the cognitive dissonance. Definitely not an easy task.

 

[A Slice of Life]

Wow what an odd experience. I really don't even know what advice to give you but that's just so strange. I'd try smoking/drinking some more spice from now on though haha.

 

[alzabo]

... do what 99% of people in vegatative states never do, and WAKE UP, return to your real reality.

Why the false dichotomy?

Why assume that one reality is real, and the other is a dream or fake? Why can’t they both be real? And if they are both real, then what’s all this stuff about returning? One self is here, another self is there. Exactly where they both belong.

Quoted for truth.

It would be a true sorrow if the enities one encounters on spice somehow make the entities that one has known all their life before even trying spice (family, friends, etc) less real. It's great that spice adds extra dimensions to reality. There is no reason that it should take away any dimensions.

I think I know where you're coming from skinwalker. I certainly had the same thought. It's just that it was presented completely without balance. It's good to remember that a game that starts out as make beleive can over time become the very foundation of ones own reality.

Edit: I found the following text from Seeing Voices by Oliver Sacs

Classically two cerebral hemispheres seen as having fixed (or "committed" ) and mutually exclusive functions: linguistic/nonlinguistic, sequential/simultaneous, and analytic/gestalt are among the dichotomies suggested.

This view runs into obvious difficulties when one confronts a visuospatial language. Goldberg would first enlarge the domain of "language" to one of "descriptive systems" in general. Such descriptive systems, in his formulation, constitute superstructures imposed on elementary "feature detection" systems (for example, those of the visual cortex), a variety of such systems(or "codes" ) being operative in normal cognition. One such system is, of course, natural language; but there may be many others-such as formal mathematical languages, musical notation, games, etc. (insofar as these are encoded by special notations).

It is characteristic of all of these that they are first approached in a tentative, groping way but later acquire an automatic perfection. Thus there may be with these, and with all cognitive tasks, two ways of approach, two cerebral "strategies," and a shift (with the acquisition of skill) from one to the other. The right hemisphere's role, as thus conceived, is critical for dealing with novel situations, for which there does not yet exist any established descriptive system or code-and it is also seen as playing a part in assembling such codes.

Once such a code has been assembled, or emerged, there is a transfer of function from right to left hemisphere, for the latter controls all processes that are organized in terms of such grammars or codes. (Thus a novel linguistic task, even though it is linguistic, will initially be processed predominantly by the right hemisphere, and only subsequently become routinized as a left hemisphere function.

And a visuospatial task, conversely, even though it is visuospatial, will, if it can be embedded in a notation or code, come to show a left hemisphere superiority.) With such an approach-so different from the classical doctrines of fixed hemispheral specificities-one can understand the role of the indiuidual's experience and his development, as he moves from his first gropings (in linguistic or other cognitive tasks) toward expertise and perfection.

 

[Apoc]

the joke is people are convinced we are now living in our "real reality" if anything the spice has shown my that to be absolute BS, there are parallel realities and we are connected to those realities as well.

lol. That's funny to me. All that stuff about alternate realities and whatever is just a continuation of the lie, the next chapter in your story..... incredible as it seems, the whole "deeper meaning" of the universe is a bottomless pit, another chapter to keep you distracted, consciousness getting further lost in its own form. By its nature, as long as you seek, the universe will seem endlessly fascinating, it will ALWAYS seem as if there is some greater meaning, or something you haven't figured out yet..... all for the purpose of distracting you from the fact that there is absolutely nothing other than right here, right now. Never was and never will be. Not that there's anything wrong with the rabbit hole. It's a hell of a trip. But it is equally meaningful or meaningless as anything else. There is only now.

 

[gibran2]

...the fact that there is absolutely nothing other than right here, right now. Never was and never will be. Not that there's anything wrong with the rabbit hole. It's a hell of a trip. But it is equally meaningful or meaningless as anything else. There is only now.

An interesting idea, and maybe a belief you hold strongly, but certainly not a fact.

 

[Ginkgo]

...the fact that there is absolutely nothing other than right here, right now. Never was and never will be. Not that there's anything wrong with the rabbit hole. It's a hell of a trip. But it is equally meaningful or meaningless as anything else. There is only now.

An interesting idea, and maybe a belief you hold strongly, but certainly not a fact.

Could you elaborate, gibran? Do you think time exist anywhere else than in your mind?

 

[gibran2]

Could you elaborate, gibran? Do you think time exist anywhere else than in your mind?

Well, I can only speculate. I was concerned about the improper use of the word “fact”. When we speak about metaphysics, we speculate.

Concerning time, I tend to agree that our perception of time is an illusion – an abstraction. But I think that rather than there being only the “now”, there is a timelessness where all possible “nows” coexist simultaneously.

 

[Apoc]

...the fact that there is absolutely nothing other than right here, right now. Never was and never will be. Not that there's anything wrong with the rabbit hole. It's a hell of a trip. But it is equally meaningful or meaningless as anything else. There is only now.

An interesting idea, and maybe a belief you hold strongly, but certainly not a fact.

Yes..... it may be an improper use of the word fact. I was speaking of a dream in which I searched the entire universe to find truth, only to find the searching itself was all that is.... and it was all happening now, and now, and now. There can be nothing else, anything else is a deviation from that truth. I found the universe looking at the drapes in my room, smiled and said, "oh yeah..... I'm right here, I'm right now".

The now thing also refers to a remembering of how I was born from a total non identity, and became identified with this world and this body. The remembering is that this life IS that non identity, on a trippy trip called life. It's like the unborn universe is a kaleidoscope, ever changing and reforming, but with no meaning, or identity, or memory as we know it, it's just there, one form seamlessly forming in to the next (karma). One day it forms the shape of a human, and the colors of the kaleidoscope starts thinking its a human. Then one day the kaleidoscope remembers it's not a human, it's a kaleidoscope with no identity.... just brilliance and forms occurring spontaneously within no time. Time itself occurs within no time, as does this human identity occur within a total non identity. What a trip. That's why I say I took dmt thinking I was going to hallucinate, but instead all of life became the hallucination.

When I see the dmt world, its brilliance, I remember that from which I formed. That from which IT evolved in to this life, but this life is still IT. I don't know if this is what other people experience when they take dmt. I know when I was on it, I was like, "oh my God! I've been lied to! I thought I was just going to see colors." But then I threw away my own disbelief, as I realized that THIS is all there is, anything leading up to now was just a contuation of a story, a journey that IT put itself on. From my point of view, this is why people experience such familiarity with the things they see on dmt. You came from that, you ARE that.

Oh, I don't mean to sound as if I know anything or other peoples beliefs are wrong or whatever. I don't see beliefs as right or wrong, they just are. I see it like a kaleidoscope forming up a belief. It's just there and the belief will fade when the kaleidoscope changes, as it always does, it is not in its nature to remain the same forever. It's all here until it isn't. That's it...... from my point of view.