How does Ayahuasca play a part in depression? In the last 2 years or so, I've more or less lost any interest in life and have no interest in counseling and pharmaceuticals as both seem to be distracting the person from any actual qualms going on in their life. I was thinking of mixing up a nice Psychotria Viridis and Caapi mixture and seeing what happens. As far as psychedelic experience goes, I wouldn't say I've ever had true ego death, as I've never been able to completely let go. Anyone here have any advice for me?
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Vine of the Soul and Depression
- Thread starter pfxtc
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Caapi and Syrian Rue contain harmine, harmaline, and caapi contains tetrahydroharmine. These are all substances called RIMA's (reversible inhibitors of monoamine oxidase). Monoamine oxidase inhibitors have a history of being used as anti depressants. MAO-A inhibition reduces the breakdown of serotonin. Serotonin has long been theorized to play a role in depression. Typically, it is thought that low serotonin levels, and low uptake of serotonin, play a role in depression. Also, DMT is a serotonin agonist (A serotonin receptor agonist is a compound that activates serotonin receptors, mimicking the effect of the neurotransmitter, serotonin). Anyway, just saying from a "scientific" point of view, both ayahuasca and dmt play SOME role in the activity of the neurotransmitter serotonin, and low activity of serotonin, or low levels of serotonin, are thought to play a role in depression. Don't take the "science" part too seriously. Usually when I try to write something chemistry like here, someone comes back and says my info is crap. However, at the most basic level, the point is that ayahuasca and dmt positively affect serotonin activity, and serotonin is thought to play a role in depression (general idea).
Anyhoo, rima's tend to induce of a temporary state of well being, and reduced anxiety. The combination of harmalas with dmt seems to put the body in a very.... relaxed state, and put the psyche in a very...... interesting state. Both the mind and body state of ayahuasca are temporary. People do report ayahuasca afterglows, in which they feel very good for days after. But I think the potential therapeutic value ayahuasca is not the temporary state that it puts one in, but the revelations about ones own emotions, and ones own life while under the influece. People seem to develop an ability to "work through" emotions while on ayahuasca. They take their realizations with them in their lives afterwards. The altered psychedelic state allows one to look at their life from a different perspective, a perspective which is very difficult, or impossible to see while one is in a ordinary state, or for one who has never tried psychedelics. It is the shift in perspective in the psychedelic state which is potentially therapeutic, probably not so much the temporary increase in serotonin activity. The psychedelic perspective may reveal mistakes that a person keeps making over and over. The person then takes what they have learned on their trip, and uses it in their life. It can be very therapeutic. Maybe. I don't want to suggest that ayahuasca is therapeutic for everyone. If you want to try it, the option is there. Also, it is generally agreed that the therapeutic value of psychedelics in general lies in the low dose range.
Anyhoo, rima's tend to induce of a temporary state of well being, and reduced anxiety. The combination of harmalas with dmt seems to put the body in a very.... relaxed state, and put the psyche in a very...... interesting state. Both the mind and body state of ayahuasca are temporary. People do report ayahuasca afterglows, in which they feel very good for days after. But I think the potential therapeutic value ayahuasca is not the temporary state that it puts one in, but the revelations about ones own emotions, and ones own life while under the influece. People seem to develop an ability to "work through" emotions while on ayahuasca. They take their realizations with them in their lives afterwards. The altered psychedelic state allows one to look at their life from a different perspective, a perspective which is very difficult, or impossible to see while one is in a ordinary state, or for one who has never tried psychedelics. It is the shift in perspective in the psychedelic state which is potentially therapeutic, probably not so much the temporary increase in serotonin activity. The psychedelic perspective may reveal mistakes that a person keeps making over and over. The person then takes what they have learned on their trip, and uses it in their life. It can be very therapeutic. Maybe. I don't want to suggest that ayahuasca is therapeutic for everyone. If you want to try it, the option is there. Also, it is generally agreed that the therapeutic value of psychedelics in general lies in the low dose range.
ragabr said:
Why do you suggest jurema instead of viridis, out of curiosity?
pfxtc said:
as far as I know, psychotria does not have other alkaloids other than dmt. From wikipedia, "Dried Psychotria vidris contains about 0.10-0.66%[6] alkaloids. Approximately 99% of that is dimethyltryptamine (DMT). Other alkaloids such as beta-carbolines and MMT have been found."
Mimosa also has beta carbolines, as well as juremamine and kokusaginine, which are believed to be psychoactive. These might be what are referred to as, "jungle spice". Mimosa brew certainly has an effect that is different from dmt by itself. It might be more "personal". Maybe.
Some people seem to believe that Chaliponga has 5-MEO-DMT, which is stronger than NN-DMT (that's what's in psychotria and mimosa), and many seem to attest that 5-MEO-DMT can be more dysphoric than NN-DMT. But only mimosa has jungle spice alkaloids, making it the most uniuque sacrament.
I used to be suicidally depressed and so paralyzed by anxiety I would sit locked inside my car before work, too sick to leave...
Caapi has literally given be a second shot at life. Through regular work with the vine (Caapi only works amazingly well), I've come to separate myself from identifying with my negative states, and learned how to better manage my way through them when they strike. I have nothing but gratitude to be liberated from such a state... Caapi is powerful medicine.
Caapi has literally given be a second shot at life. Through regular work with the vine (Caapi only works amazingly well), I've come to separate myself from identifying with my negative states, and learned how to better manage my way through them when they strike. I have nothing but gratitude to be liberated from such a state... Caapi is powerful medicine.
Thanks for the reply's. I'm aware of the chemical differences between the substances, I'm more interested in the experienced differences, and I've heard Chacruna is the "traditional" and most healing way, but I could be wrong.
I'm interested in the Caapi only brew however, any advice in preperation, or is it the same as your traditional ayahuasca brew just only using the caapi?
I'm interested in the Caapi only brew however, any advice in preperation, or is it the same as your traditional ayahuasca brew just only using the caapi?
Apoc said:
sorry but thats wrong information. Mimosa has never been shown AFAIK to have kokusaginine, and neither is yuremamine 'jungle spice'. You should check burnt's sticky in the advanced chem section to show whats in jungle spice. Yuremamine is destroyed in typical extractions due to the pH changes and heat and therefore cannot be in jungle spice.