VIROLA resins CONFUSION

[kemist]

So ILPT is VERY disappointed with his Virola Theiodora resin what parrot brought from Shamanic Extracts

.
They also have some v. calophylla resin

. ILPT didn`t try calophylla as parrot shelled out all money for ten grams of theiodora(idiot). ILPT tried 50, 100, 150, 200, 250, 500 and 1000 mgs sublingually with no effects, except slight visual distortion and noticably synergising effects with alcohol(lager) BUT nothing like this SWIM experience:

He first tried 20 mg sublingually, which should contain about 2 mg of alkaloids (if it truly has a 10% alkaloid content), most of which are reported to be 5-MeO-DMT. Nothing at all was felt. He then tried the same dose by freebasing the resin with an equal amount of calcium hydroxide. Still no effects.

Next he tried 40 mg sublingually. Still no effects.

Finially he tried 80 mg sublingually and noticed something. He wasn’t sure if it was placebo or not. So he tried a larger dose.

SWIM then tried 120 mg sublingually. On the way home from work he put it under his tongue and held it there without swallowing. After about 10 minutes he swallowed the grainy resin, parked at the local electronics store and walked in. He figured this was a perfect place to test its effects. After just a few more minutes he started feeling pleasant euphoric bodily sensations typical of 5-MeO-DMT fumarate. He walked around the TV section of the store and noticed how lifelike the images in the TVs were, again, an effect very typical of 5-MeO-DMT. Also, the underside of his tongue was tingling, another effect typical of 5-MeO-DMT fumarate (the freebase form burns the tongue and then numbs it slightly; the salt forms tingle the tongue and sort of numb it slightly). After about 20 minutes the effects started to peak and were very noticeable. Everything in the store looked so lifelike. All the pictures on all the DVDs were almost moving. The effects were definitely not placebo. As he walked around the store he could feel all the emotions from all the people around him. There was an intense feeling of awareness and euphoria. His body felt really nice and tingly. After about 45 minutes the effects were gone. This was roughly equivalent to a 3 mg sublingual dose of 5-MeO-DMT fumarate.

Judging by the potency and pharmacokinetics of the effects, the resin doesn’t contain freebase 5-MeO-DMT, but rather it contains a salt form of 5-MeO-DMT in the range of about 2.5% per dried gram. We can tell its present as a salt because the freebase form taken sublingually peaks faster (after 10-15 minutes) and burns the tongue a lot, while the salt forms peak slower (after 20-25 minutes) and don’t burn the tongue. Also, the salt forms are more euphoric, while the freebase form is more psychedelic. So judging by these characterizes it must be present in salt form.

So he tried to basify with ammonia at pH 11 and allow the resin to dry. This was insufflated at 100, 200 and 400 mgs it burnt and effects were simmilar to subl. use = none. ILPT can`t say he didn`t feel anything it did something with alcohol but nothing on it`s own. Here is v.theiodora from different vendor

. This looked exactly like a theiodora what ILPT basified with ammonia, weird innit?

This is pic of their calophylla resin

ILPT heard that some of the virola species contain 6-metoxy-tetrahydroharman. This is very confusing :? Anyone has an idea, what`s going on???

 

[69ron]

Some is probably old and inactive from improper storage. 5-MeO-DMT doesn't keep long, I've heard. Lots of people have had bad luck with all kinds of Virola. SWIM also has had mostly bad luck. But the last batch of resin he got was indeed very active. Maybe if SWIM gets it again from the same vendor he'll have his typical bad luck again.

 

[kemist]

Some is probably old and inactive from improper storage. 5-MeO-DMT doesn't keep long, I've heard. Lots of people have had bad luck with all kinds of Virola. SWIM also has had mostly bad luck. But the last batch of resin he got was indeed very active. Maybe if SWIM gets it again from the same vendor he'll have his typical bad luck again.

You are right, I think. It could be old virola. Can swim tell when he ordered his virola resin DYE, not for human consumptions. they have batch of 235 grams what is certainly inactive, whilst different vendor have only 54 grams left. Both vendors are in holland. And how about the colours??? That resin gave ILPT some effects but certainly NOT those of the 5 Meo DMT. He is suspicious about 6-metoxy-tetrahydroharmaline or another beta-carbolines content in his resin.
BTW. resin was forced through A/B extraction with DCM with no result.Resin is very little soluble in water just 1/6th. or less of resin would dissolve. how about swim`s resin how soluble in water it is ?

 

[69ron]

SWIM never tested the water solubility of it, but knows after taking it sublingually it doesn't all dissolve. Its a lot of wood fiber actually.

It's being sold as "resin" but it's actually inner bark scrapings, I believe.

The color at the top matches what SWIM had which was very potent. It is dark brownish cherry red and very glossy.

SWIM still has a lot of that "resin". At some point when he has time, he'll attempt an A/B extraction on it.

SWIM tried his “resin” recently and it seems to be losing potency

 

[kemist]

So does swim know anything about the 6-metoxy-tetrahydrohamalin? There are some rumours that some virola species contain beta-carbolines.

 

[69ron]

I think you mean 6-methoxy-2-methyl-1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-β-carboline.

That’s found in Virola theiodora.

According to one source on Erowid, the most alkaloids ever found in the bark was 0.25% and that consisted of:

52% N,N-dimethyltryptamine
43% 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine
4% 6-methoxy-2-methyl-1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-β-carboline
1% N-methyltryptamine

One report only obtained 0.017% alkaloids. That’s much more common. That mirrors SWIM’s results more accurately. So 100 grams of bark would only contain about from 17 mg up to 250 mg of alkaloids. 250 mg is a lot from 100 grams. SWIM never had bark that was that good. Most of his was 0.006% or less alkaloids and not at all worth extracting.

Remember, it’s the resin, not the bark that is high in alkaloids. But that's fresh resin, the kind that pours right out of the bark when you cut it, not the dry hard stuff sold on-line. According to the natives, the resin is only active for a short time unless processes right away.

 

[kemist]

Some is probably old and inactive from improper storage. 5-MeO-DMT doesn't keep long, I've heard. Lots of people have had bad luck with all kinds of Virola. SWIM also has had mostly bad luck. But the last batch of resin he got was indeed very active. Maybe if SWIM gets it again from the same vendor he'll have his typical bad luck again.

OK, say ILPT`s resin is the same stuff as swim`s but old. IT was high in 5meodmt. Presumably first product of degradation is it N-OXIDE. WHAT swim know about solubility pK constant etc? Does the degradation running further ? If yes, what is the following product of degradation :?:

SWIM never tested the water solubility of it, but knows after taking it sublingually it doesn't all dissolve. Its a lot of wood fiber actually.

It's being sold as "resin" but it's actually inner bark scrapings, I believe.
(

DAMN right :idea: , :twisted: liars. ILPT performed his a extraction of second tooth :lol: very gently he didn`t even realize is actually bloody bark and he need to be more forceful.

ok!Say his bark is non 5-meodmt but high in DMT (in some salt form ). Why didn`t 1000mg = 1 GRAM sublingually work ( it only gave him the same little flashback effects like 100mg.)

Remember, it’s the resin, not the bark that is high in alkaloids. But that's fresh resin, the kind that pours right out of the bark when you cut it, not the dry hard stuff sold on-line. According to the natives, the resin is only active for a short time unless processes right away.

I remember mate, but this vendor does NOT. He claimed

Unique fresh resin!

. This is not true them , it means vendor is a liar.(HERE he go, again ) If he lying in this matter he could also selling different virola sp.resin and named them theiodora or calophylla :? :?:

When ILPT basified he has only one base (except bloody lye ) ammonia at ph 11,2. he doesn`t know what salt is in his resin and what tryptamine or harmaline it is (lack of analyt. lab. ).Therefore he isn`t sure if did basify enough. He waiting for bloody parrot who posses some lime. Then he can basified at ph 12,5. with just 3 grams he will try 1 gram with lime as snuff while the other two forced trough a/b [citric acid{at pH 2} with heat / lye{at pH 13 }] to see how much spice (if any ) it contain.

 

[69ron]

Some is probably old and inactive from improper storage. 5-MeO-DMT doesn't keep long, I've heard. Lots of people have had bad luck with all kinds of Virola. SWIM also has had mostly bad luck. But the last batch of resin he got was indeed very active. Maybe if SWIM gets it again from the same vendor he'll have his typical bad luck again.

OK, say ILPT`s resin is the same stuff as swim`s but old. IT was high in 5meodmt. Presumably first product of degradation is it N-OXIDE. WHAT swim know about solubility pK constant etc? Does the degradation running further ? If yes, what is the following product of degradation :?:

It should degrade to 5-MeO-DMT N-Oxide, but possibly other compounds. I’ve heard there are enzymes present that degrade it further.

SWIM’s resin is starting to lose potency. He’s had it for over 3 months now. 150 mg is now weaker than 100 mg was when he first got it.

SWIM never tested the water solubility of it, but knows after taking it sublingually it doesn't all dissolve. Its a lot of wood fiber actually.

It's being sold as "resin" but it's actually inner bark scrapings, I believe.
(

DAMN right :idea: , :twisted: liars. ILPT performed his a extraction of second tooth :lol: very gently he didn`t even realize is actually bloody bark and he need to be more forceful.

ok!Say his bark is non 5-meodmt but high in DMT (in some salt form ). Why didn`t 1000mg = 1 GRAM sublingually work ( it only gave him the same little flashback effects like 100mg.)

I’m sorry, 1 gram should probably work if snuffed only. I don’t think DMT works well sublingually. 5-MeO-DMT works well sublingually. As snuff you need over 100 mg of DMT. If the material is 10% alkaloids and all DMT, you’d need 1 gram for effects as snuff if it was just DMT right?

Remember, it’s the resin, not the bark that is high in alkaloids. But that's fresh resin, the kind that pours right out of the bark when you cut it, not the dry hard stuff sold on-line. According to the natives, the resin is only active for a short time unless processes right away.

I remember mate, but this vendor does NOT. He claimed

Unique fresh resin!

. This is not true them , it means vendor is a liar.(HERE he go, again ) If he lying in this matter he could also selling different virola sp.resin and named them theiodora or calophylla :? :?:

Well it definitely has bark particles in it. I don’t know how they can call it resin. But so far, their stuff is the only stuff that worked well for SWIM. SWIM is happy with what he bought. But I know others have also complained. I’m not sure if it’s the vendor’s fault or his supplier’s fault. Maybe the supplier is selling him bunk stuff sometimes and he doesn’t know it. Some of the vendors are just in it for the money and don’t know much about what they are selling.

When ILPT basified he has only one base (except bloody lye ) ammonia at ph 11,2. he doesn`t know what salt is in his resin and what tryptamine or harmaline it is (lack of analyt. lab. ).Therefore he isn`t sure if did basify enough. He waiting for bloody parrot who posses some lime. Then he can basified at ph 12,5. with just 3 grams he will try 1 gram with lime as snuff while the other two forced trough a/b [citric acid{at pH 2} with heat / lye{at pH 13 }] to see how much spice (if any ) it contain.

Let me know how it goes.

Keep in mind that if you use it as snuff you need to grind it to a fine powder or it won’t work well. I’d try making it like it was Yopo. Grind it to a powder, add about 1/4 lime, a little bit of water to make it wet and mix it for about 5 minutes, then let it dry. That should work if its at all active.

Remember, if its all DMT in it, and its 10%, you need 1 gram for light effects. But if it’s just 5% 5-MeO-DMT (which some are said to be) then 1 gram is nearly an overdose.

SWIM’s stuff is roughly about 0.5% 5-MeO-DMT judging by the effects. It’s no where near 10%.

 

[kemist]

ILPT extracted exhaustively his theiodora "resin" and became disappointed once again. He extracted 2 grams of that stuff with hot citric acid solution at pH 1,8. then he filtered out the residue on pre weighted filt. paper and got orange(with hint of tan)solution. he is busy at the moment so he didn`t basified and didn`t perform organic solvent extraction yet. Meanwhile the filt. paper with residue dried and after weighing ilpt found out that only ~ 20 mg dissolved. thanks to this wise step ilpt will not arsing with solvent extraction he just let the acidic water slowly evaporate and will see. At this point he can claim that ACTUAL BATCH OF VIROLA THEIODORA doesn`t contain any valuable amount of tryptamines and 25 bucks shelled out for this crap was WASTE OF MONEY !!!.
anyway,
Parrot just arrived with VIROLA CALLOPHYLA and this one will be tested soon...

 

[outrider]

SWIM also received these resins, didnt try yet..
any updates?
maybe, if not working in another way, taking orally with an MAOI would do it?
what about smoking it in a vaporizer pipe?

 

[kemist]

maybe, if not working in another way, taking orally with an MAOI would do it?
what about smoking it in a vaporizer pipe?

No lad. It was smoked at it is, then extracted and smoked with no or just placebo effect. now is ilpt on rimas from s. rue and it still have no effects (expect those from rue )

Suspiciously, parcels arrived late, opened an resealed with cello tape and short 50 mg each. SEEMS like Authorities( on borders ) were interested what parrot ordered and checked his stuff in analyt. lab. No wonder it looked a bit like hash resin, or dirty heroin and it came from NL.

Parrot would not order any more. ILPT can ask some other birds from NL to order both resins (shipped within country ) and try it on his visit of NL next year. This way he would avoid nosy authorities screwing around with HIS stash.

READY TO EAT stuff is always doggy.

 

[kemist]

Anybody have had recently good experience with virola resins from vendor mentioned above? Or from any other vendor?

 

[kemist]

SWIM’s resin is starting to lose potency. He’s had it for over 3 months now. 150 mg is now weaker than 100 mg was when he first got it.

This seem to be the biggest problem with resin - bloody degradation:x

It should degrade to 5-MeO-DMT N-Oxide, but possibly other compounds. I’ve heard there are enzymes present that degrade it further.

What if ONE bring pH down to value ~2 or so,with some acid (e.g. citric). This would for sure stop any enzymatic activity