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Virola Snuff experiences? anyone?

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lorax

lorax

Rising Star
SWIM has some virola snuff sitting around for 2 months or so. SWIM made it himself. SWIM made 1 gram of it for a first try. It's composed of 0.7g virola resin and 0.3g powdered snail shells.

In the Yanomami video they use some kind of leaf instead of snail shells. Does anyone know what kind of leaf this is? SWIM would like to make virola snuff which is exactly the same as the snuff the Yanomami use.

SWIM is a little afraid of trying this snuff because of the violent purging seen in the video. Does it always make you purge at higher doses?
 
If your snuff does anything at all, I'll be surprised. As of yet, no one I know has gotten much effects from the virola products available on the market. But SWIM has experienced a light 5-MeO-DMT trip from a bark extract he made.

SWIM has tried extracting alkaloids from virola bark many times and got next to nothing from it.

SWIM currently has virola resin, which is claimed to be about 10% alkaloids, mostly 5-MeO-DMT (probably just marketing hype). This is most definitely not true. SWIM tried up to 40 mg of basified resin (basified by adding lime which is the same powerful base used for Yopo) and had no effects from it at all:(

It’s said to be mostly 5-MeO-DMT, so if it were even just 5% 5-MeO-DMT then 40 mg would have 2 mg of 5-MeO-DMT in it which is enough for SWIM to feel the effects from 5-MeO-DMT. So there’s no way it has that much 5-MeO-DMT in it. However if it was all DMT, then 10% would have amounted to 4 mg of DMT, which isn’t enough to feel any effects at all from snuffed DMT. So maybe it is 10% alkaloids, but mostly DMT. If that’s the case you would need at least 1 gram of virola resin to feel effects from it because you need at least 100 mg of DMT when snuffing it.

Unfortunately, there’s such a little amount of information about virola out there.

When SWIM extracted from virola bark, the few times it contained anything at all it was only a tiny amount of 5-MeO-DMT and nothing else.

Are you planning to take 1 gram of prepared snuff all in one shot?

At 700 mg of virola resin, assuming it’s actually 10% alkaloids, then if it were all DMT, that would amount to only 70 mg of DMT. In that case it would hardly do anything at all.

The important thing to know is how much 5-MeO-DMT does it contain? 70 mg of 5-MeO-DMT is a psychedelic overdose. 10 mg is considered an extremely strong dose for most people. Most people cannot handle 20 mg. At 70 mg you would probably black out, wake up 30 minutes later possibly with vomit all over yourself, possibly bruises and cuts on your body from thrashing around uncontrollable, and you’ll probably not recall anything at all.

Without knowing exactly how much 5-MeO-DMT it contains, I would be very cautious and start with a very low dose.

Check out what can happen from snuffing too much 5-MeO-DMT:

5-MeO-DMT - Erowid Exp - 'Don't Ever Do This!'

An Experience with 5-MeO-DMT. 'Don't Ever Do This!' by Diabolos
www.erowid.org
 
The Yanomami take about an index finger full for each nostril about every 15 minutes. SWIM thought of using the same dose as the natives do. The white guy from the video is only given very little to start with and he looks like he has a nice mellow effect from it.

I think most people don't feel anything from virola because it is probably prepared the wrong way.
 
the yanomami add the leaves of Justicia pectoralis sometimes, and also sometimes ashes of Elizabetha princeps, or ashes in general from other trees/plants

they also use yopo, so I guess you are sure what you´re seeing is epena (virola) and not yopo (anadenanthera), right?

SWIM has some epena at home, but not much.. SWIM gets some head-feeling, some light visuals and some distinct trippy feeling from snuffing it.. The problem is, SWIM is down to very little of it, so cant really do it strongly. SWIM is gonna ask his amazon friend for some more soon, because epena is quite soft and nice, as opposed to tobaco snuffs or even yopo which SWIM thinks its too rough on his nose.

and another thing, most westerners take a little sniff, dont feel anything and consider it not psychoactive.. Just watch how much the indians blow each time and then you understand more.. They always do one nostril and then the other, and they may also repeat this many times with some short intervals

btw, one very important thing is that it is blown, and not sniffed.. By blowing it, it will go to the sinus and remain there for enough long to be absorbed.. by sniffing it coke-style, some will go to the throat and you´ll want to spit, some to the lungs, whatever, but it wont be absorbed as effectively.. All the snuff taking indians make sure either someone blows to their nose (yanomami usually with a long straight tube), or that they blow it themselves, using a V shaped tube (indians such as the kaxinawa also use bigger v shaped tube to blow to others, and smaller to blow to themselves when there´s nobody around)

SWIM has a small V shaped tube, its easy to improvise and very useful.. Just put the snuff in one end of the tube, stick it in the nose and blow through the other
 
So how much snuff do you actually need? Or more importantly, how much resin is used to make 1 dose of snuff?
 
I've read from a couple of sources that you need get 3-6g up your nose to achieve the desired effects. DON'T take my word for it, research more as these sources could be completely wrong.

SWIM's only tried snorting, not blowing, and the most he ever managed was 1.5g max. It was unbelieveably painful and achieved negligible results other than the tortuous pain in his brain, eye, nose and base of neck. He later tried about 0.1g mixed with edible lime, easier but to no effect again and still too painful for him to try ever again in the quantities needed.

He tried eating 0.9g and nothing happened, which didn't surprise. This was based on hearing that 3-6 (why these numbers again?) 'bean sized' pellets are consumed by some tribes. So as a coffee bean weighs 0.15g, he ate 0.9g in an attempt to roughly equate to 6 coffee beans.

He then found on another forum someone talking about putting it under your tongue. 0.3g under the tongue (apparently double the threshold according to the guy who wrote about doing it this way) did very very little, but there was a very mild 'something'. Now he's going to try 0.3 again, this time mixed with old edible lime 4:1 (I'm told old edible lime doesn't burn so much??).

I've also read that the shamens say the virola resin only keeps for 2 months. Could this be why it doesn't seem to work for many people? Is all the stock being sold already too old?
 
hey ron.. sorry didnt see your question before..

I have no idea about amounts, I just put some in the v-shaped tube and blow it to myself.. I usually start small, feel how much I can take, and try to push the limits..

now mine is finished, but whenever I get some more I will scale a normal dose for myself and tell you


btw, I dont feel epena (virola) to be harsh in the nose.. yopo, on the other hand, hurts too much for me.


I never heard of 2 months limit for storing, but will ask about it
 
Here's a post I made on another forum that got almost no response. You guys here might find it helpful here...


For quite some time SWIM has been attempting to extract 5-MeO-DMT from virola bark with very little success. Apparently, the resin of nearly all the bark he’s obtained was scraped out prior to the bark being put on the market. This is commonplace.

You can tell if the bark has had its resin removed, because the resin is a dark glossy material. When its dry, its hard and very shinny. It looks nothing like bark or wood, it almost looks like a coating of thick shiny lacquer on the inside of the bark.

Anyhow, I asked around and got information from another SWIM who directed SWIM to try out Virola theiodora resin. There are a few vendors that carry this product. SWIM purchased some. It is dark brown, hard, and very glossy. It almost looks like shiny dark reddish brown sand.

SWIM bioassayed it for activity. Hearing that it contained about 10% alkalods, SWIM started at a low dose.

He first tried 20 mg sublingually, which should contain about 2 mg of alkaloids (if it truly has a 10% alkaloid content), most of which are reported to be 5-MeO-DMT. Nothing at all was felt. He then tried the same dose by freebasing the resin with an equal amount of calcium hydroxide. Still no effects.

Next he tried 40 mg sublingually. Still no effects.

Finially he tried 80 mg sublingually and noticed something. He wasn’t sure if it was placebo or not. So he tried a larger dose.

SWIM then tried 120 mg sublingually. On the way home from work he put it under his tongue and held it there without swallowing. After about 10 minutes he swallowed the grainy resin, parked at the local electronics store and walked in. He figured this was a perfect place to test its effects. After just a few more minutes he started feeling pleasant euphoric bodily sensations typical of 5-MeO-DMT fumarate. He walked around the TV section of the store and noticed how lifelike the images in the TVs were, again, an effect very typical of 5-MeO-DMT. Also, the underside of his tongue was tingling, another effect typical of 5-MeO-DMT fumarate (the freebase form burns the tongue and then numbs it slightly; the salt forms tingle the tongue and sort of numb it slightly). After about 20 minutes the effects started to peak and were very noticeable. Everything in the store looked so lifelike. All the pictures on all the DVDs were almost moving. The effects were definitely not placebo. As he walked around the store he could feel all the emotions from all the people around him. There was an intense feeling of awareness and euphoria. His body felt really nice and tingly. After about 45 minutes the effects were gone. This was roughly equivalent to a 3 mg sublingual dose of 5-MeO-DMT fumarate.

Judging by the potency and pharmacokinetics of the effects, the resin doesn’t contain freebase 5-MeO-DMT, but rather it contains a salt form of 5-MeO-DMT in the range of about 2.5% per dried gram. We can tell its present as a salt because the freebase form taken sublingually peaks faster (after 10-15 minutes) and burns the tongue a lot, while the salt forms peak slower (after 20-25 minutes) and don’t burn the tongue. Also, the salt forms are more euphoric, while the freebase form is more psychedelic. So judging by these characterizes it must be present in salt form.

It’s possible the resin contains more alkaloids other than the estimated 2.5% 5-MeO-DMT, as there could be other alkaloids present that are inactive or poorly active sublingually such as DMT. In SWIM’s sublingual tests, he only detected the effects of 5-MeO-DMT. It wasn’t colored with any other effects from any other alkaloids. But even if there was as much as 10% DMT present in addition to the estimated 2.5% 5-MeO-DMT, the DMT would have no effects sublingually at the doses tested. So the tests only show an estimated 2.5% 5-MeO-DMT content in the resin. For DMT to be active, doses of 100 mg or more of pure DMT would be needed, so at 10% alkaloids, you would need 1000 mg of resin for any of the DMT to be effective. However, judging by these tests, at 2.5% 5-MeO-DMT, a dose of 1000 mg of resin would contain 25 mg of 5-MeO-DMT as a salt, which is a very strong dose, which most people would not be able to handle, and which would completely overpower the effects of the DMT, so you wouldn’t feel anything from the DMT even if it was active. For SWIM 10 mg is a whopping dose of 5-MeO-DMT.

SWIM never tried smoking it. It will not be very effective if smoked because the 5-MeO-DMT is in salt form. It should be freebased before attempting to smoke it.

SWIM tried using it with lime (calcium hydroxide) at a ratio of 4:1 of resin to calcium hydroxide. This was placed under his tongue. It burned quite a lot, and the effect felt were that of freebase 5-MeO-DMT. So it can be freebased right in the mouth. When taken this way it peaks in 10-15 minutes instead of 20-25 minutes and hits you a little harder.

The resin is many times higher in 5-MeO-DMT than diplopterys cabrerana leaves, which usually have about 0.15 % 5-MeO-DMT.

Diplopterys cabrerana costs about $20 for 100 grams from some vendors. At about 0.15% 5-MeO-DMT, that’s a total of 150 mg 5-MeO-DMT for $20 ($0.13 per mg 5-MeO-DMT).

Virola theiodora resin costs about $25 for 10 grams. At about 2.5% 5-MeO-DMT, that’s about 250 mg 5-MeO-DMT for $25 ($0.10 per mg 5-MeO-DMT). That’s an excellent price. Considering it can be used as is without any processing, its much more convenient that Diplopterys cabrerana is.

Note that when taken as snuff, it should be ground to a powdery consistency, and it should be mixed with lime (calcium hydroxide). A ratio of 4:1 of resin to lime is good. If lime isn’t used or the resin isn’t powderized, then it’s not very effective as snuff. But when taken sublingually, its only slightly more active that way, so it can be used as is with very good results.


Let’s recap:

* Pure Virola theiodora resin is active without any preparation.

* Pure Virola theiodora resin contains about 2.5% 5-MeO-DMT in water soluble salt form.

* The threshold dose for Pure Virola theiodora resin sublingually (or as snuff) is about 80 mg.

* 120 mg of pure Virola theiodora resin taken sublingually (or as snuff) is enough for minor LSD like psychoactive effects including slight visual distortions, euphoria, altered emotional awareness, increased awareness of surroundings. This is equivalent to about 3 mg of 5-MeO-DMT fumarate.

* Contains about 16 times as much 5-MeO-DMT as Diplopterys cabrerana.

* It’s the cheapest source of 5-MeO-DMT at about $0.10 per mg of 5-MeO-DMT (as the natural form salt). We’re talking about $0.30 for 1 mild dose, $0.60 for 1 moderate dose, $1.20 for 1 strong dose.
 
endlessness said:
just out of curiosity.. what is the pH of saliva? is it not enough to at least partly freebase the alkaloids when taking sublingually ?
Click to expand...

Hardly pal, saliva has pH: 6,0 – 7,5 (av. 6,8 ) while you eating it increase and decrease while you sleeping.So don`t forget brush your teeth before bed, or you will get acid erosion of tooth enamel and decay.:shock:

But seriously ILPT can`t wait for pay day to get some virola resin and take it painlessly, sublingually . Any idea of good on-line vendor ? ilpt found few: The Herbalist, Shamanic extracts, Highstreet nl (Smartshop), azarius(selling some bloody shreded bark). :(

Ok we have those strains: Surinamensis , Theiodora , Calophylla, Peruviana. Ilpt heard about potency of theidora ages ago (good stuff), but how about the others? Junk? Or more powerful ?? He found Surinamensis is out of stock, it could mean is the best one.:roll: Do they have virola plants in surinam (Netherlandish colony, right? )
 
69ron: that was the post SWIM saw.

:( SWIM's virola resin is probably bunk, because SWIM snorted 2g of the stuff with no psychedelic effects, only severe pain (SWIM increased his doses up to this amount) and sublingually took 0.9g held in for 20 minutes before swallowing for little or placebo effect, and according to 69ron's experience 120mg is enough for an experience. Forgot to say SWIM smoked it too, very harsh burning on the throat, and no effect after 0.5g+ smoked continuously over approx. 10 minutes. From the way it burned, SWIM was sure it was a resin. It's a reddy/browny/creamy colour, smaller granules than table salt but more granular than flour. Smells slightly peppery and, if this makes sense, slightly 'sexual', as if it had pheromones in it because SWIM finds the smell attractive!

SWIM bought it from herb-a-list.co.uk, so maybe try someone else. SWIM also found their clavo huasca and lotus to be rubbish, and tried both in increasingly excessive quantities. But good source for mimosa/harmala, and peruvian torch cactus. Of course, herb-a-list are only selling as botanical specimens, not as how SWIM uses them!

As to the 'pain' of taking it, there are only five or six reports on Erowid. Only one was successful. At least two talk of the snuff being very painful.
 
p.s. herb-a-list stuff was labelled theidora, apparently the strong stuff.

Either it's bunk, or the stuff goes off, or doesn't work on SWIM. All other psychedelics work on SWIM- lsd, lsa, weed, cactus (mescaline), mushrooms (psylocybin), DMT/harmala brews.

:( SWIM was really excited about natural DMT that didn't have to be taken with an MAOI.
 
That sucks. A lot of people have had bad luck with it, so you're not alone.

SWIM also had bad luck until he got it from a specific vendor a member on this forum had recommended a in a PM to me. (SWIM says thanks for that PM DUDE!!!)
 
haha! thats the same stuff I have! unfortunatly I have a lot of trouble on my second order. I had to get the bank to transfer my money back, because the bastards wouldn't answer my emails nor would they send me my stuff. I still got like 9 grams left of it.

did you get the resin there or the ready to use snuff from venezuela? i got the resin, because i thought to myself that 40 bucks for a gram of snuff is outrageous!

I even got a Piri Piri plant now. All I'm missing is elizabetha. Do you know where to get that plant?

I even collected snail shells, washed em out till clean. I crushed em to snailshell powder. I have a gram of snuff made from 0.7g resin and 0.3g snailpowder. Do you think if I add another say 0.3g Piri Piri it could become active? Not that i've tried it before as it is..

Information on snuff is VERY rare. If I get my snuff to work I will be posting a little how to guide including dosage ranges and stuff like that. I wonder why there is so little info on it. Most people seem to think that it is mainly about purging.. this stuff is supposed to create very euphoric & light visual states when used in small doses.
 
cheech said:
haha! thats the same stuff I have! unfortunatly I have a lot of trouble on my second order. I had to get the bank to transfer my money back, because the bastards wouldn't answer my emails nor would they send me my stuff. I still got like 9 grams left of it.

did you get the resin there or the ready to use snuff from venezuela? i got the resin, because i thought to myself that 40 bucks for a gram of snuff is outrageous!

I even got a Piri Piri plant now. All I'm missing is elizabetha. Do you know where to get that plant?

I even collected snail shells, washed em out till clean. I crushed em to snailshell powder. I have a gram of snuff made from 0.7g resin and 0.3g snailpowder. Do you think if I add another say 0.3g Piri Piri it could become active? Not that i've tried it before as it is..

Information on snuff is VERY rare. If I get my snuff to work I will be posting a little how to guide including dosage ranges and stuff like that. I wonder why there is so little info on it. Most people seem to think that it is mainly about purging.. this stuff is supposed to create very euphoric & light visual states when used in small doses.
Click to expand...

This is what SWIM got: Virola theiodora

SWIM has little experience with that vendor. They’ve been good so far.

The dosage range for sublingual 5-MeO-DMT is the same as the snuff dosage, so if the resin it good 150 mg of snuff should produce decent effects as is IF YOU POWDERIZE IT FIRST! You can take it sublingually as is without powderizing it because it easily dissolves in the mouth. But when used as snuff it needs to be very fine powder or it won’t work well at all. I recommend mixing in lime for the best effects. Maybe about 1:5 of lime to resin would be good. But I’m not sure, SWIM is still experimenting with using lime with the resin.
 
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