Vodka Bottles as Glass Containers?

[brazilman]

I have a bunch of 1 liter vodka bottles (yea, I used to drink). It's a pretty thick glass but likely not tempered, just generic brands nothing too fancy. I was wondering if the glass is suitable to use in extractions and for storing a MHRB+LYE solution for a few days, maybe with NAPHTA as well. I have a tempered erlenmeyer that I can dissolve the lye in, but after that, would these bottles be ok?

Assuming the glass itself is fine, what about the original plastic cap, could I use it to close the bottle for a couple of days if I don't allow it to come in contact with the solution (no flipping the bottle or anything, just as a precaution to avoid spilling accidents and the smell/evaporation)? And if yes, how much does the bottle need to breathe to avoid the risk of too much pressure building up? If no, and well even if yes, which sort of rubber stopper do I need to look for?

I read some stuff that indicated that what creates the risk of glass shattering, besides the temperature shock or pressure build-up was that the lye would weaken the glass over time. Is that really an issue, especially with such a thick glass that is only used a few times (as opposed to constantly for months)?

 

[brazilman]

Okay so after more research (looking at soap making forums), it seems that even borosilicate glass can't trully handle lye and could shatter because of it at any moment. Now I'm starting to get truly paranoid about what is and is not suitable material to work with...

 

[Northerner]

I use 2L wine flagons and corks for stoppers. I haven't had one break on me yet.

Just in case one breaks, I stand the flagons in a large stainless pot when I add the lye. It hasn't been warranted so far but I'm not going to stop doing that as it also catches any small spills.

I often leave the solutions in the bottles for weeks to really nuke em too. I've been inspecting the bottles and cannot see any damage at all. I don't add too much lye either. There is no need for the amount that is stated in many teks. I use litmus paper and check the ph as I go. More economical and less dangerous.

 

[brazilman]

I did notice that some people seem to regard this as unneeded paranoia. Then again, you only need one accident to fuck you up and a lot of soap makers say glass is a big no no, even borosilicate, because it can shatter at basically any moment. But they don't use stuff like naphtha so polyethylene and polypropylene plastic is perfectly fine for them (I think?). Apparently not for us though, as the naphtha will react with it, so I'm concerned with leaving it in a plastic container after a pull because of possible trace amounts reacting. Maybe let the MHRB+LYE rest in #2/#5 plastic for a while and then do all my pulls in a single night and throw the MHRB soup away?

 

[formulaic]

I think you will definitely be fine.

I've used all sorts of glass bottles in the past and never had an issue. I've used wine bottles a few times in the past with no noticeable effects and I've never had glass break. I know of people who have even used thick plastic, and whilst I wouldn't recommend it, they didn't seem to have any issues. Same for storage. I wouldn't worry about a plastic lid either, as long as it's airtight.

When I basify I always use a pyrex glass outside and also never had a problem. I do it outside just in case it smashes or whatever but most of the time it hardly even gets that hot if you add it slowly enough.

 

[pete666]

Question is how strong is the base and how hot is the solution. For 1:1 MHRB:base ratios and 1:15 mhrb:water ratios (the solution is quite weak) and normal temperatures it is OK to use even soda lime glass. I am using borosilicate though, as it is better. I have found some information about how much glass is etched by time and for our purposes it would last ages before it could etch enough to cause breakage. Anyway, I suggest changing the glassware every few hundred extractions, just to stay safe

You can put hdpe foil between the cap and glass. Or ptfe if using incompatible np.

But PLEASE, shake always above sink, with gloves and !GOGGLES!. Have vinegar ready!

 

[soulfood]

I pretty much use HDPE for everything. Even when aged severely it is much more likely to start slowly leaking than shatter. Also slight impacts in the right place can cause glass all sorts of unexpected terror.

What's with all the glass fascination anyways? I can understand glassware for carrying out a process but when was the last time anyone bought chemicals/solvents that arrived in a glass container? There's a good reason.

 

[pete666]

I pretty much use HDPE for everything. Even when aged severely it is much more likely to start slowly leaking than shatter. Also slight impacts in the right place can cause glass all sorts of unexpected terror.

What's with all the glass fascination anyways? I can understand glassware for carrying out a process but when was the last time anyone bought chemicals/solvents that arrived in a glass container? There's a good reason.

Naptha won't work as good as toluene. I always use toluene for initial extraction, so I have pure dmt from heptane secondary extraction and orange dmt from the rest.
And of course for mescaline extraction toluene is a necessity (at least for my STB)

Glassware is the only option.

 

[soulfood]

Naptha won't work as good as toluene. I always use toluene for initial extraction, so I have pure dmt from heptane secondary extraction and orange dmt from the rest.
And of course for mescaline extraction toluene is a necessity (at least for my STB)

Glassware is the only option.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression that toluene would only dissolve HDPE if held over boiling point for many hours?

Toluene pulls DMT very efficiently at room temp. with no need for heating so I don't understand why this would be an issue.

I have stored toluene, xylene and DCM in the HDPE bottles in which they were supplied for years with no noticeable damage to the bottles (although DCM has a habit of ghosting away).

 

[pete666]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression that toluene would only dissolve HDPE if held over boiling point for many hours?

Toluene pulls DMT very efficiently at room temp. with no need for heating so I don't understand why this would be an issue.

I have stored toluene, xylene and DCM in the HDPE bottles in which they were supplied for years with no noticeable damage to the bottles (although DCM has a habit of ghosting away).

No, toluene is not compatible with hdpe

I doubt any serious chemicals supplier would sell it in hdpe. It is sold in glass or metal cans.

 

[null24]

Yes vodka bottles are fine. Most def preferred over any kind of plastic, hdpe or no.

I use a big metal pot that i keep the vessel im ( obviously not when it's being manipulated) so that in the case of breaks i don't lose anything.

Never happened though.

 

[brazilman]

Have vinegar ready!

I had some vinegar nearby last time but after more reading, it seems that neutralizing a base with an acid is actually a bad idea (aside from when cleaning up) and you should just wash away the base with lots of water. Is that wrong?

 

[brazilman]

What about pressure build-up risk? I've pretty much settled on the previously mentioned plan, using hdpe bottles for storage and glass for doing the pulls. I'm slightly concerned that leaving the mhrb soup in a tightly sealed container for a day (or more) could result in enough pressure building up to go kaboom; and there is no way I'm not closing the bottle tightly, I don't want any risk of accidental spilling. My understanding is that there is no meaningful pressure build up from just the mhrb soup (once the lye water has cooled down)... is that correct or is my paranoia at all warranted?

Also, what is more likely to increase yield, leaving the mhrb in lye for longer, or mixing the naphtha in the soup for longer? Is there much of a point to keeping the mhrb in lye for over a day or is that just overkill, just going to increase the amount of impurities in the pulls?

Also! I'm planning to try a sodium bicarbonate wash straight after the pulls (before evaporation, can't do freezing). Any reason why I shouldn't?

 

[brazilman]

Naptha won't work as good as toluene. I always use toluene for initial extraction, so I have pure dmt from heptane secondary extraction and orange dmt from the rest.
And of course for mescaline extraction toluene is a necessity (at least for my STB)

Toluene has a pretty high boiling point, seems it would be hard to evaporate. Do you do freeze precipitation or what? What sort of ratios do you use for toluene pulls?

 

[pete666]

Have vinegar ready!

I had some vinegar nearby last time but after more reading, it seems that neutralizing a base with an acid is actually a bad idea (aside from when cleaning up) and you should just wash away the base with lots of water. Is that wrong?

I didn't know that, thanks for that information.

 

[pete666]

What about pressure build-up risk? I've pretty much settled on the previously mentioned plan, using hdpe bottles for storage and glass for doing the pulls. I'm slightly concerned that leaving the mhrb soup in a tightly sealed container for a day (or more) could result in enough pressure building up to go kaboom; and there is no way I'm not closing the bottle tightly, I don't want any risk of accidental spilling. My understanding is that there is no meaningful pressure build up from just the mhrb soup (once the lye water has cooled down)... is that correct or is my paranoia at all warranted?

Why would you leave it closed while not shaking? I always leave the top open and close it just for shaking

 

[pete666]

Also, what is more likely to increase yield, leaving the mhrb in lye for longer, or mixing the naphtha in the soup for longer? Is there much of a point to keeping the mhrb in lye for over a day or is that just overkill, just going to increase the amount of impurities in the pulls?

It all depends on your strategy. Are you doing heptane re-x later? Are you interested in just pure white dmt? If you want maximum gain, then get as much as possible, so break it as much as possible before adding np and heat it while pulling. If you want to do just naptha pulls, without subsequent purification, then you have to sacrifice some dmt. Leave it there just for short time. You won't get everything, but it will be pure.
My strategy is to leave MHRB with base and minimum water for 24h. Then I add water and toluene. First two pulls are without heat, third is heated. So I get pretty everything, but with impurities. Then I continue with mini A/B and heptane re-x. I get two fractions - white and yellow/orange. It is more work, but I get almost everything possible.

 

[pete666]

Also! I'm planning to try a sodium bicarbonate wash straight after the pulls (before evaporation, can't do freezing). Any reason why I shouldn't?

Well, my advice would be - don't evaporate, always freeze-precipitate. Why couldn't you?
But if you really can't freeze-precip, do the wash!

 

[pete666]

Naptha won't work as good as toluene. I always use toluene for initial extraction, so I have pure dmt from heptane secondary extraction and orange dmt from the rest.
And of course for mescaline extraction toluene is a necessity (at least for my STB)

Toluene has a pretty high boiling point, seems it would be hard to evaporate. Do you do freeze precipitation or what? What sort of ratios do you use for toluene pulls?

Again, my advice is - don't evaporate. Use other techniques if possible.

I am doing HCl titration, which is a form of back-salting. Then I basify it by NaOH and pull by hot heptane. Then I freeze-precip it, which is re-x in fact.
It may seem to be too much work, but it has advantages. I know how much dmt is in the np before I freeze-precip. And I can use the np immediately, so I can use the same np for every pull. And I know whether next pull is necessary. And I can use as much np as I want without any evap.

 

[brazilman]

Also! I'm planning to try a sodium bicarbonate wash straight after the pulls (before evaporation, can't do freezing). Any reason why I shouldn't?

Well, my advice would be - don't evaporate, always freeze-precipitate. Why couldn't you?
But if you really can't freeze-precip, do the wash!

Other people use the freezer so I can't change the temperature setting without disturbing their stuff. Maybe I'll figure something out later but for now, I'll just do the evap.