Waking Up Tripping

[Nathanial.Dread]

Has anyone ever timed a dose of a psychedelic in such a way that they emerge from sleep (slow wave, or REM) into a psychedelic trip?

It occurs to me that, if you were to plot states of consciousness in some kind of a vector space as a graph, we often travel along some edges, but not others. For example, we often follow these paths bidirectionally:

Sleep <-> Sober Consciousness
Sober Consciousness <-> Tripping Consciousness

Other edges seem impassible, for example, most of us find it very hard to travel

Tripping Consciousness -> Sleep without passing through Sober Consciousness.

What about going

Sleep -> Tripping Consciousness?

If we think of these various states of consciousness as typified by specific resting-state patterns of neural connectivity, the transition points (which may be analogous to a phase change, in physics, or falling into a new basic of attraction in dynamical systems theory) might tell us a lot about how our brain represents certain states of consciousness.

Carhart-Harris and Nutt found that the psychedelic state displays dynamic similarities to REM Sleep, so if it were possible to travel the along the REM Sleep -> Tripping Conscioussness edge of our graph, we might pass through some really interesting states.

Blessings
~ND

 

[anne halonium]

Has anyone ever timed a dose of a psychedelic in such a way that they emerge from sleep (slow wave, or REM) into a psychedelic trip?

absolutely.
the maid put a ten strip in my mouth of orange sunshine ( 1979)
while i was out cold at 4 am.

i woke up in a plus 5 at 6 am.
it was a wacky morning.

this kinda thing might be good for experiments.
not sure you could maintain an actual sleep though.

i havent repeated that experiment since then.

 

[Ufostrahlen]

I'll try that now with 25µg 1P-LSD spread over two divided doses. One 12.5µg predose and another 12.5µg after 1-2 sleep cycles. Last time 25µg at 2 in the night was too much and kept me awake. Lol @ a 10 strip... 1/8 of a blotter it is.

 

[Koornut]

If we think of these various states of consciousness as typified by specific resting-state patterns of neural connectivity, the transition points (which may be analogous to a phase change, in physics, or falling into a new basic of attraction in dynamical systems theory) might tell us a lot about how our brain represents certain states of consciousness.
~ND

Even a high/low pressure difference that forces the change?

 

[PsyDuckmonkey]

Other edges seem impassible, for example, most of us find it very hard to travel

Tripping Consciousness -> Sleep without passing through Sober Consciousness.

I'd say this is only a matter of the specific drug combinations we are most familiar with, and not in any way intrinsic to these states of consciousness.

True, I find it almost impossible to fall asleep on LSD, in fact it seems to induce a state of insomnia hours beyond the actual trip. Psilocybin mushrooms are less aggressive in that aspect for me, but still, falling asleep during the "visual" phase of a pure shroom trip is not something I've ever experienced.

However, I did fall asleep several times on cannabis, and in fact have used cannabis as a sleeping aid quite a lot in the past... and cannabis seems to carry this capability over to its combination with mushrooms.

Last autumn I had an awesome trip on mushrooms and oral cannabis... and I fell asleep during the trip, it pretty much felt like shifting into REM state straight from "tripping awake". In the morning I woke up with the shrooms gone and being high on the tail end of the oral cannabis.

 

[Praxis.]

There was a point in time where whenever I took mushrooms I would wake up about and hour or two before my usual time, eat the mushies, set my alarm to go off in an hour, and go right back to sleep. My reasoning was to try to avoid come-up anxiety.

I found that almost half of the time I would not be able to fall back asleep. When I was able to fall asleep, it seemed to work pretty well in that I would wake up immersed in a trip. Even in those instances though the experience didn't seem changed or influenced all too significantly, except for the sudden transition from states of consciousness upon waking up was often really disorienting.

Oddly enough about a week ago I took MDMA and ketamine (115mg MDMA and a couple bumps of K throughout the evening) and had a really bizarre experience the following morning. The effects of both had totally worn off by the time I went to sleep that night; but when I woke up I saw tracers, colors were quite saturated, and everything had that sense of added spatial depth. It kinda freaked me out but I didn't feel like I was tripping psychologically, it was purely visual--though my body felt numb like it does when you're on ketamine or any other anesthetic. I drifted in and out of sleep for an hour or so; each time I woke up from dozing off the effects seemed to be intensified, but progressively tapered off in waves. No weird dreams or anything associated with the experience (that I remember anyways). It was really bizarre, never had anything like that happen with either substance--both of which had been subjected to multiple reagent tests and nothing else had sent up a red flag insofar as purity is concerned. I don't use either very often and the doses weren't excessive or high by any stretch of the imagination, so I've been pretty baffled what this might have been.

 

[Ufostrahlen]

I'll try that now with 25µg 1P-LSD spread over two divided doses. One 12.5µg predose and another 12.5µg after 1-2 sleep cycles. Last time 25µg at 2 in the night was too much and kept me awake. Lol @ a 10 strip... 1/8 of a blotter it is.

Okay... fell asleep with 12.5µg and woke up after 3h to my alarm. Ingested another 12.5µg and slept ~ 2h more. Now I'm awake and I feel the adrenal stimulation, can't really sleep anymore, but no visual tripping. Dreams were present, but underwhelming and I forgot them quickly. Maybe 4 tabs of valerian can get me back to sleep (5:30 in the morning is too early).

 

[SpartanII]

Several years ago I tried something similar with 2C-I. Went to bed as usual, setting my alarm to wake me up after about 6 hours. Woke up, ate the capsule, and set my alarm to wake me up in 2.5 hours (as this is roughly how long it took to kick in the previous time I did it) and I went back to sleep. When I woke up, I felt no different than I usually do after waking up. Finally after around two hours I started feeling it. I was kinda disappointed as I expected to wake up tripping.:roll: Slowed metabolism during sleep maybe?

 

[hug46]

Years ago i went to an all day music event after having worked a 12 hour shift the previous night. We arrived, sat down, got beers and necked some acid. I promptly fell asleep. When i woke up, i opened my eyes and saw various bits of litter crawling across the floor towards me and i was encircled by a group of crossed legged hippy types smiling benvolently at me. My mates were nowhere to be seen.

I can"t really give give any decent information on how the transition of my consciousness developed as this event was in the dim and distant past but i had a wonderful day, Very mellow. I would think that setting while asleep and the manner in which one was awoken would have a profound effect on the transition. When i found my friends later on, one of them hadn"t fared so well. He had spent the whole day, and the subsequent journey home, thinking that people were coming up to him, spitting on him and telling him that he smelt really bad.

When i used to live on my own and wasn"t working much i would occasionally load my VG the night before and vape as soon a i woke up. The trips seemed to be more lethargic and relaxing.
Sometimes they would verge onto the photo realistic as my head moved into the sun from the skylight.

I was awakened next morning by the high clear voice of a boy singing in the street below. The sound lifted me gradually with a swaying motion as though I was being cradled on silken cords. It was cool crisp singing, full-throated and pure, and surely the most painless way to be wakened - and as I lay there listening, with the sun filtering across me, I thought this was how it should always be. To be charmed from sleep by a voice like this, eased softly back into life, rather than by the customary brutalities of shouts, knocking, and alarm-bells like blows on the head. The borders of consciousness are anxious enough, raw and desperate places; we shouldn"t be dragged across them like struggling thieves as if sleep was a felony.

 

[TGO]

Anyone read that pharmahuasca trip report Snozzleberry wrote? Within the report he states that he ingested a massive amount of pharmahuasca and at several points during the experience he fell asleep and woke up tripping still:

The last couple hours of the trip were mostly visual, less engaging and i fell asleep and woke up several times to my recollection, each time noticing I was more down but still heavily affected. When I awoke the next morning my lips were dry as all hell and chapped like crazy (which is odd because while I never use chap stick, I never get dry or chapped lips) however, noticing that the tip of my nose was in a similar state, I've hypothesized that this incredibly painful dryness was the result of rubbing my face against my bed and pillows for long periods of time throughout different parts of my experience.

Full trip report to those interested: 400mg's to Freedom: Lost in Pharmahuasca

 

[universecannon]

Tripping Consciousness -> Sleep without passing through Sober Consciousness.

What about going

Sleep -> Tripping Consciousness?

I've gone through both of these with LSD and they were surprising, but mostly just because I'm already a very energetic person to begin with and never thought it was possible for me considering how stimulating LSD is. I didn't really find the transitions all that intriguing though to be honest.

I fell asleep during a very high dose of LSD (my first high dose, in high school). I think it was too much for my brain to handle and after a couple hours of oscillating between heaven and hell I somehow fell asleep in bed, as if my mind shut itself down in defense because it had enough.

I've fallen asleep on aya/pharma countless times, and woken up during it. Those dreams are usually very bizarre. Interestingly, if I'd only taken harmalas/caapi/rue, with no DMT, the dream would still be as if I'd taken a full on dose of oral DMT along with the harmalas.

Another time I took some acid with melatonin and then put on a proteus mind machine, setting it to a very low brainwave sequence, then quickly fell asleep. Towards the end of the sequence I woke up tripping. There wasn't anything particularly novel about it, though it wasn't a high dose. And I'd already been familiar with getting suddenly woken out of deep dreams that left me with heavy lingering psychedelic mental/visual effects for brief moments upon awakening.

 

[332211]

well, there was this one time where i put about 10mg of 2cb hydrochloride into some kneaded bread... that fuse took about 4 hours to go off, my girlfriend of that time was quite surprised by the massive erection i woke her up with ^^

psychedelic effects were miniscule but we were both surprised about the aphrodisiac effects. definitly a night to remember.

 

[travsha]

I've drank Ayahuasca before bed... Then got into bed and I would kinda drift in and out of sleep. I also often do the same thing with salvia tea or salvia quids - do them right before bed. When I dieted Salvia Divinorum for a week I drank it before bed each day that week.

Creates a relaxed experience because going to sleep is very relaxing - helps you let go and go deep in some ways. Also, the dreams and the waking psychedelic state blend together in an interesting way. As you wake and sleep and wake and sleep kinda tossing and turning the whole experience blends into one.

I found I can go pretty deep this way, but that it is also a little harder to remember details sometimes.

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

I've drank Ayahuasca before bed... Then got into bed and I would kinda drift in and out of sleep. I also often do the same thing with salvia tea or salvia quids - do them right before bed. When I dieted Salvia Divinorum for a week I drank it before bed each day that week.

Creates a relaxed experience because going to sleep is very relaxing - helps you let go and go deep in some ways. Also, the dreams and the waking psychedelic state blend together in an interesting way. As you wake and sleep and wake and sleep kinda tossing and turning the whole experience blends into one.

I found I can go pretty deep this way, but that it is also a little harder to remember details sometimes.

Salvia's an interesting case, since I'm not sure it has the same globally disorganizing effect on neural information processing that a serotonergic psychedelic does. I'd be really interested in doing a connectomic analysis of the brain on salvia divinorum and comparing to the same analysis of the brain on psilocybin.

I've gone through both of these with LSD and they were surprising, but mostly just because I'm already a very energetic person to begin with and never thought it was possible for me considering how stimulating LSD is. I didn't really find the transitions all that intriguing though to be honest.

I fell asleep during a very high dose of LSD (my first high dose, in high school). I think it was too much for my brain to handle and after a couple hours of oscillating between heaven and hell I somehow fell asleep in bed, as if my mind shut itself down in defense because it had enough.

I've fallen asleep on aya/pharma countless times, and woken up during it. Those dreams are usually very bizarre. Interestingly, if I'd only taken harmalas/caapi/rue, with no DMT, the dream would still be as if I'd taken a full on dose of oral DMT along with the harmalas.

Another time I took some acid with melatonin and then put on a proteus mind machine, setting it to a very low brainwave sequence, then quickly fell asleep. Towards the end of the sequence I woke up tripping. There wasn't anything particularly novel about it, though it wasn't a high dose. And I'd already been familiar with getting suddenly woken out of deep dreams that left me with heavy lingering psychedelic mental/visual effects for brief moments upon awakening.

Interesting, this is the first time I've come across someone who has actually had multiple experiences falling asleep on psychedelics. I wonder if it's 'true' sleep (slow wave or REM), with all the normal electrophysiological signatures and nothing weird, or if it's not some kind of hybrid state.

Want to try it in an EEG cap? I'd love to see the results.

Blessings
~ND

 

[Doc Buxin]

Many times in the past 35 years I have set an alarm for, say, 3, 4 or 5 a.m. (depending upon when I plan to actually get up), have an LSD dose at the ready by the bedside, ingest it & go back to sleep, only to wake up tripping in a few hours.

It has generally always been a very pleasurable, if not somewhat odd experience, however I have purposely never attempted heroic dosages with this method due to the fact that I usually have a lot of chores & things to do in the morning regardless of whether I have to go to work that day or not.

If my recollection serves me well today, I doubt that I have ever attempted this procedure with >250mcg, which is what I personally regard as a threshold psychedelic dose.

 

[Chan]

When I dieted Salvia Divinorum for a week I drank it before bed each day that week.

Hey Travsha, may I ask how strong you make the tea? I've only ever found details of a salvia diet in a book by Ross Heaven, and I'm disinclined to pay attention to someone who gives 100x extracts to clients...:shock:

 

[travsha]

When I dieted Salvia Divinorum for a week I drank it before bed each day that week.

Hey Travsha, may I ask how strong you make the tea? I've only ever found details of a salvia diet in a book by Ross Heaven, and I'm disinclined to pay attention to someone who gives 100x extracts to clients...:shock:

Ya, I am surprised that he doesnt use the chewed method with Salvia...

I dont measure anything when I make the tea. I just put a handfull of leaves in with some water - I use cold water and do a cold water infusion because it tastes way better.

Two ways I know include the easy way and the more magical fun way. Easy way = put a handful of leaves in a blender with some water, blend, let sit for 10-15 minutes, then strain out with a french press. Longer more magical way is to grind the leaves with just a tiny bit of water into a paste with a mortar and pestle, then add more water and let sit for 10-15 minutes before straining the same way.

You then swish the tea in your mouth since it absorbs best in the throat or under the tongue. Swish a sip for a while, then swallow it, and keep repeating till you get to a good strength. Nice part of this method is you can keep swishing more till you get where you want to be. Works pretty well.

I am actually doing a tequila based Salvia extraction right now - going to diet Salvia again, but she told me to do it with tequila this time... I will probably start tonight actually.

 

[Chan]

Thank you, Travsha. Now I've got a short fast under my belt, I feel more capable of trying a diet, and I'd be grateful to hear any other tips you might have to share...

Good luck with your tequila extraction. I'm sure you know this already, but when I first tried to make a tincture, the solubility of salvinorin in 40/80 vodka was still poor. 95/190 worked much better. But for a tea, with a larger volume, solubility shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

When I dieted Salvia Divinorum for a week I drank it before bed each day that week.

Hey Travsha, may I ask how strong you make the tea? I've only ever found details of a salvia diet in a book by Ross Heaven, and I'm disinclined to pay attention to someone who gives 100x extracts to clients...:shock:

Ya, I am surprised that he doesnt use the chewed method with Salvia...

I dont measure anything when I make the tea. I just put a handfull of leaves in with some water - I use cold water and do a cold water infusion because it tastes way better.

Two ways I know include the easy way and the more magical fun way. Easy way = put a handful of leaves in a blender with some water, blend, let sit for 10-15 minutes, then strain out with a french press. Longer more magical way is to grind the leaves with just a tiny bit of water into a paste with a mortar and pestle, then add more water and let sit for 10-15 minutes before straining the same way.

You then swish the tea in your mouth since it absorbs best in the throat or under the tongue. Swish a sip for a while, then swallow it, and keep repeating till you get to a good strength. Nice part of this method is you can keep swishing more till you get where you want to be. Works pretty well.

I am actually doing a tequila based Salvia extraction right now - going to diet Salvia again, but she told me to do it with tequila this time... I will probably start tonight actually.

I thought that Salvinorin A wasn't water soluble and had poor bioavailability via the GI tract?

Blessings
~ND

 

[travsha]

I thought that Salvinorin A wasn't water soluble and had poor bioavailability via the GI tract?

You swish or gargle the tea so it is absorbed in the mouth, not the GI. Supposedly it isnt water soluble, but that just shows you how much science knows - because the tea method works very well. It is also one of the main methods used traditionally by the Mazatec - the motor and pestle method I mentioned is a Mazatec method for doing cold water infusions. I cant tell you why or how it works - but it works very well.