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Way too far and way too long!

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NotTwo

NotTwo

Rising Star
This was by far the most extreme experience I've yet had with DMT. Just to give a bit of background, this year I've been experimenting with 5-MeO and have tried it about 7 or 8 times. Friday was the last time I tried some and then on Saturday morning I put 17 mg of DMT in my trusted VG to remind myself what that was all about too. The imagery was pretty strong but a long way off breakthrough. It left me thinking I'd like to try a breakthrough dose to see if things would have changed much since my encounters with its 5-MeO cousin. I waited about 30 minutes and smoked 30 mg of freebase harmala. After 20 minutes or so I could hear a definite carrier wave and my body felt a bit fizzy.

So I loaded up the pipe with 35 mg of DMT and vaped the whole lot. The entry was simply wild, way beyond anything I'd experienced before. I've done this enough times before to know you just go for complete acceptance - my usual way is to surrender with as much love as I can throw at it. Breakthrough was almost instant - well as far as I can remember. The first part had some of the beauty that I've been used to but it just seemed further, weirder, wilder than I'd ever encountered before.

Then really suddenly it changed from bright and friendly to dark and menacing. The place was full of metallic type machine beings made of infinitely recurring patterns. There was simply nothing left that I could call "me" yet the fear was intense. What's afraid when there is no longer an ego? The experience showed no signs of moving on and it felt like I passed an eternity in this place.

Eventually it seemed to relent just a little. I know from previous breakthroughs the exit can be pretty rapid - 60 seconds and you simply drop out of it then 60 seconds later you're back at baseline. But not this time! Another eternity passed and I could detect some semblance of a body there although incredibly weird and still no way of finding a "me". The body was sweating profusely with pounding heart. I tried opening my eyes but the alien machine world was horrendously superimposed over the top of a room that in no way resembled my living room. I just wasn't coming out of this experience and the horror of being stuck in this place was just too much. More eternities passed and no relief. Just very, very slowly a bit more of the surrounds came back. I made it to the bathroom and threw cold water over my face. Some monstrous machine figure stared back at me from the mirror. I made it up the stairs and lay on the bed. Bit by bit some sort of sense of "me" reorganized itself although I felt horribly weak and unstable. I looked at the clock and saw that an hour had passed since I smoked. I really can't remember any occasion when DMT has lasted more than 7 minutes for me. I'm guessing it might have been the harmalas I smoked though I'm not ruling out some sort of secondary effect of the 5-MeO which has a habit of coming back especially during meditation or times of concentration. I'm also thinking maybe my body had an extreme physical reaction and that's what caused the sudden passage from light to dark in that other place.

This experience leaves so much to sort out. I almost want to get back there to see if I can maintain the acceptance of what was happening - I feel I should have been able to - this is my life philosophy and has always been my path to non-duality in these experiences. I've made some really positive life moves since the experience, almost like some blockages that were there before have been removed. At one point in the (bad part of the) experience I was shown what happens when someone dies, how the forces from the life are preserved temporarily and can experience this other universe. Also, meditation has been much more profound with all perceptions seeming to form a "fluidity" (no other word for it) in awareness, almost like a river flowing. However I'm still shocked by what happened, if not actually in shock. I feel a lot of integration needs to happen before any more experimenting but I don't know where to start really. Any advice gratefully received!
 
The title of your post certainly covers the subject. Great stuff to read.

Can’t give you any advice. I think you took too much :) .
 
I've only had one experience with bad entities. Mantis creatures feedings off my energy, felt drained for a couple weeks after that. It doesn't sound like you had a vampiric experience. More like you just saw a level that was a little past your threshold of dealing with the experience. If fear was present there was some part of YOU remaining that would not let go.

I've had a few experiences of going too far, [my first time was about 80mgs and years later I smoked with an experienced friend an insanely large pile] Both of these experiences shattered my perceptions, beliefs, and modalities of being or dealing with reality. I had to SURRENDER and be torn up an re-assembled. Although I was shaken up from the experiences these proved to be VERY beneficial experiences after integration. The time I smoked an insane amount with an experienced smoalker I wondered how I could ever process the experience. I continue to do so to this day 2 years later. The benefits have been immense.

Everytime a new layer of the DMT onion is revealed it will shake you up, ALOT. It is infinite in there and everytime I thought I knew what was coming I got a big wake-up call and revelation of an even DEEPER experience of hyperspace. I have made peace with the fact that everytime I smoalk I will either learn more about a known level, OR, be shown a reality-shattering NEW level of that energy. There is no end to this path, its just how far do you wanna go. I am sure this experience will, over time, teach you to let go more in trips, meditation, relationships, and normal life. And if you wait till the experience seems integrated and your life has changed for the better I'm sure you will be able to LET GO to an even deeper experience in the future.

Everytime DMT gets deeper it will scare the beejesus out of you UNLESS you surrender completely. When you surrender completely you are just lost in the sauce and its kindof a surprise when you come back. Make peace with the fact that you may never come back, and your mind will be fully open. [Hint: You will always come back anyway]

DMT laughs at mental conclusions about experience, origins, or purpose. I'm sure you will find your non-duality strengthened in a grounded way that doesn't rely on mentally based aphorisms, and instead, relies on the immediacy of surrender in the present moment.

Blessings and digest well. Meditation, traveling, ganja and trichocereus cactus have been my best allies for integration I heartily recommend them. Cactus can is a GROUNDED trip [below the monster doses] that really helps me bring down HUUUGE spiritual messages from something like DMT or mushrooms.
 
Thanks for such a well thought out reply, No Knowing. :)

No Knowing said:
If fear was present there was some part of YOU remaining that would not let go.
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Yeah, this is the weird one. In an experience where there seems to have been complete ego death, no self remaining, then something is still there which thinks in personal terms. It's a lesson to learn. And I think what was being held onto was something to do with the body too - when the body felt totally crap then this brought up the fear of extinction of something which was "me". Lesson: be ready to lose your body, in effect die for real, in the experience. Wow, that's a big one!

No Knowing said:
Cactus can is a GROUNDED trip [below the monster doses] that really helps me bring down HUUUGE spiritual messages from something like DMT or mushrooms.
Click to expand...

I'll try it :)

Despite the horror of the experience, this week's been full of revelations. A lot of it has simply been applying information/techniques that I already have to what's going on in life to get rid of negative stuff.
 
A little bit of harmalas and a stiff dose of DMT done in one go can be incredibly powerful haha.

Good stuff. 😁

Thanks for sharing. :thumb_up:
 
I've often thought that the idea behind changa is not too logical. I know when I smoke harmalas the effect is only gradual going from baseline to max in around 20 or 30 minutes. DMT on the other hand is baseline to max in around 30 seconds - well I think so anyway because after 15 seconds I've almost not idea of time - and then back to baseline in less than 10 minutes. This means the effect of the harmalas doesn't coincide with the active period of the DMT. By smoking it 20 minutes before you're going to get maximum effect of the MAOIs. Basically the DMT you've smoked won't be broken down in the system making the experience much, much longer which is definitely what happened in this case.

I think I prefer the 7 minute version 😁 (well at least for the time being).
 
NotTwo said:
...I know when I smoke harmalas the effect is only gradual going from baseline to max in around 20 or 30 minutes...This means the effect of the harmalas doesn't coincide with the active period of the DMT...
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Questions arise:

* What is meant with the "effect"? How ones experiences it as a "feel" , or is it what it does in maoi biotechnical ways? Does your harmalized feeling represent exactly what it does on maoi matters? There definitely is a common area, but is it fully the same? Have these two things an individual and different time envelope curve?

I've no definite answers but the Q's do potentially compromise the non-logical concern of your quote. I mean, perhaps the maoi can have action while the harmala is not readily developed fully as a feel? What harmalas do in the maoi territory might differ (time scheme wise) from what it does on neurological feel-able levels. If people have ideas about this, please share. All I can do is stirring in that pot a bit.
 
NotTwo said:
By smoking it 20 minutes before you're going to get maximum effect of the MAOIs.
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I don't think 20 minutes is necessary. 1 minute is probably enough. But I do agree that for vaporised harmala + dmt, some amount of harmala preloading makes a positive difference, much more so than with the oral route. When smoking changa, taking a little puff and then waiting a minute does improve the efficacy of subsequent puffs (or subsequent blast off).

Speculating a bit:

Maybe this is because in the oral case, harmala salts are taken up by the digestive tract very fast, while dmt salts take more time to work their way into the bloodstream. Whereas in the vaporised case, both substances arrive in the bloodstream simultaneously, but different the transport dynamics across the blood brain barrier cause the dmt to move ahead of the harmalas?

/speculation
 
Jees said:
* What is meant with the "effect"? How ones experiences it as a "feel" , or is it what it does in maoi biotechnical ways? Does your harmalized feeling represent exactly what it does on maoi matters? There definitely is a common area, but is it fully the same? Have these two things an individual and different time envelope curve?
Click to expand...

You're absolutely right Jees. I don't know enough about the mechanism of this to get a clear picture. The MAOI effect of the harmala stops the DMT getting broken down so makes it longer. But this doesn't necessarily coincide with what I feel as the effect of the harmala. But this brings up lots of questions:
- Once the DMT passes the blood brain barrier does it then stay in the brain or does it keep on passing round the body in the blood?
- Where do the natural MAOs break it down - in the blood in general or specifically in the brain?
- Do the DMT molecules "latch onto" cells in the brain and stay there?
- Could it be that the DMT affecting the brain is just a very small percentage of the actual DMT consumed?

I've often sprinkled a bit of harmala on top of my spice before vaping and like the overall effect - less speed and more depth (sometimes). However I'm pretty shocked that preloading a reasonable dose of harmala means you stay in spiceland for an hour.
 
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