Weird NULL experience from ayahuasca/mimohuasca

[truthseeker1]

Hi! I realized it became a long post. Sorry about that.


First trip was only 1.5g rue 1g mimosa powders(no brew), i.e to test-the-waters. about 30min after ingesting, a general Euphoria , "special feeling state" and happiness was the results. colors of the forest and trees were amazingly beautiful, sharp, bright and intense. Visual acuity enhanced. No CEV/OEV but truly beautiful feelings.

Second trip was a brew of 3.3g rue and 4.7g mimosa, simmered for hours, filtered and put in fridge and drank w/O sediment.
30 min after taking the brew euphoria, special feeling and happiness again was there, some nausea but no puking. About 1half hour later got my first beautiful CEV ever, where meetings with aliens occurred too. Very beautiful experience.

Yesterday was my 3rd ever ayahuasca/mimohuasca and here however something stopped it from working 3.3g rue 7g mimosa brew

Just as I was about to take the first sip of the brew I already at that moment felt the insane urge to puke, I dont know why this time it was so hard to try to gulp it down. It was very very awful to drink both the rue and mimosa. Right from the very moment my lips and mouth touched the brew I was using all my might to hold against vomiting. As the brew touched my throat it felt wildly vomit inducing. IT WAS EXTREMELY odd since I felt barely any thing when I took the brew the last time in the second trip. All the doses for the second and third trip come from the exact same brew as well.

Anyway I gulped down the rue and 20min later the mimosa(just like the 2nd trip). About 1hour later I started to feel a little nausea but still no feeling of "euphoria" , no special feeling at all. 1hr 10min the nausea started to get much stronger. Still no special feelings or CEV. 1hr 20mn the nausea got very wild and still no special feeling/cev. I said to my self to hold it for 5 mins and see then if perhaps puking will actually trigger the experience as some trips I read.

So, actually, I could hold it longer if I tried my hardest but I just wanted to puke to see if the trip may get triggered this way(as I read somewhere). I went to the bathroom and puked a lot all at once(only puke I had). It is now 1hr and 50mins since I took the mimosa brew. I feel only dizzy and little sick but no special feeling at all. It is as if there was no trip. I laid on bed, sat on the couch but nothing happened. 1hour later sickness subsided and I was completely normal again without having experiencing anything at all... except well, puking.

So, what do you think happened here? Why didnt I experience anything? I suspect that I held the puke in for a very short time. Perhaps I should hold that puke in for say 30-40 mins?
is that the cause? The reason I didnt hold the puke in is that several trip reports that I read
said that puking had triggered the experience. Add to that that I didnt feel any special feeling during the first 1h 20minr whereas my second trip made me feel that special feeling already 30 mins after taking the brew..

And what about that very intense urge-to-vomit during the actual drinking of the brew that I didnt experience earlier in my 2nd trip?

Thanks a lot for your time
truthseeker1

 

[Jees]

It happens that the stomach holds hostage of the content and not open the outlet port (pyloric sphincter muscle) to the intestines.

This happens more often when it is confronted with more and more of confronting plant material like tanin, alkaloids, ..
It could have been that.
The eventual opening phases of the pyloric can sometimes be clearly heard as a rumbling and felt at the very solar plexus site. IME the experience start from then on.

Before that, only a small fraction of the actives can reach blood stream trough the tissue of the mouth - esophagus - stomach wall. This is often felt as a small pre peak of the real experience.

Now for dosages, don't up too soon mimosa, as a starter you should have a very solid meaning experience on 5 gr mimo. If not, start checking your maoi level. Did you use ground seeds or whole seeds? Could mean a serious difference on how much harmalas actually could drop mao level.

A bit same remark for mimo, if it's pieces (no powder) then your brewing style can seriously alter the amount of actives ending up in the brew.

We easily take grams for point of reference, while the efficacy of getting the actives finally in the brew mean just as much.

We all learn as you do now, trial, error, etc, all in the game :thumb_up:

 

[Jees]

As an example of stomach hostage can take up for many hours, a group ceremony was ending the final stage of the night, I drank 3 cups having no real show, and at the end while most were already landing the bloody sphincter finally opened and released into the intestines having me completely smeared out in the catacombs of deeper depths :lol:

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

Be sure to be patient in your brewing process, your brewing process can greatly affect your end product.

I always leave the sediment. I shake before consuming, but never remove the sediment.

Some claim the sediment will only cause physical distress and unnecessary purging, others claim removal of the sediment will result in a significant loss in potency.

I'm of the opinion that both claims are partially true, yes, it may cause added physical distress, however, it may also have some affect on potency and may induce intensified psychedelic phenomena.

At times I've found it best to brew the MHRB or ACRB in standard fashion*, then, eat your peganum harmala seeds (3g), (which can be powdered and placed in gel-caps, however I have simply swallowed whole seeds in the proper amount and achieved successful mono-amine oxidase inhibition, which was confirmed by full action of the DMT which was ingested following the PHS.) Then either immediately after, or some wait 15 minutes or so, drink your MHRB (or ACRB) brew.

Other times I brew the root-bark and the seeds simultaneously, though I usually powder them simultaneously in the coffee grinder as well.

You can also brew your seeds in one boiling vessel, and your bark in a separate boiling vessel, then when each is completed they can be mixed and consumed, or some may drink the seed tea (MAOI) first, then they consume the DMT tea.

All of this information is located everywhere on this site and may be review for you anyway so I will stop here...

( * °(my) Standard boiling procedure: add powdered root bark and proper amount of h20 to a Pyrex, glass, or stainless steel boiling vessel, add acid to adjust Ph (optional), boil for 3 or more hours, filter, save the filtrate in a clean dish and set aside, return the filter-cake to the boiling vessel with fresh water (if using citric acid (lemon juice) or vinegar (acetic acid/h2O) to adjust PH this will need to be preformed every time fresh water is added to the boiling vessel) and repeat this action two more times, each time adding the filtrates to the clean dish which the initial filtrates was set aside in, next reduce the 3 combined filtrates to a reasonable amount, and your done. ·When you are boiling, you do not need to do so at maximum temperature, I find it's best to maintain mild heat, just so that your liquid remains at a low roiling boil, which is a rolling boiling, but it's a low boil, preformed with as mild amount of heat as possible, most of this has to do with caramelizing natural sugars in the root-bark, which results in a foul taste and an unnecessary viscosity to the decoction, the other part is you may eventually destroy alkaloids, though DMT and harmala alkaloids are fairly stable, so this is likely an unwarranted concern )

(Generally for MHRB and ACRB 7-15g is standard, generally closer to 15g on my part, but go slow. Your peganum harmala can be taken consistently at 3g, maybe a little more if you choose...

Here, this May help:

So, how does a non-pharmacist person, without an analytical scale or an immediate command of the avoirdupois versus apothecaries vocabulary, measure a wanted quantity of Peganum seeds?

I would suggest using the following scale, remembering that with water weights can be easily interchanged with volumes, since water has a weight that is equal to its volume. In both of these scales, the water and the rue, the teaspoon is the small semi-spherical thing in the cork-puller drawer, leveled off:

---- This is for water ----

1 teaspoon water = 0.16 ounces (5 grams)

3 teaspoons = 1 tablespoon = 0.5 ounce (14 grams)

2 tablespoons = 1 ounce (28 grams)

4 tablespoons = 1/4 cup = 2 ounces

16 tablespoons = 1 cup = 1/2 pint = 8 ounces

2 cups = 1 pint = 1 pound

2 pints = 1 quart

4 quarts = 1 gallon

or, as I had learned as a childhood rhyme; a pint's a pound, the world around.

You must remember, this volume thing has its own traps. When you start using the volume measurement for things such as seeds, or bark, or leaves, or other biological things that are not of the density of water, they possess varying degrees of fluffiness, and the weights will be less than the volumes. The Rosetta stone translation that is appropriate here is based on the fact that the Peganum harmala seeds are just over half the density of water. And, since they may contain from 2 to 6% its weight of alkaloids, the following equations are useful:

---- This is for the seeds of Syrian rue ----

1 teaspoon rue seeds = 3 grams = 60-180 mg alkaloids

1 tablespoon rue seeds = 9 grams = 200-600 mg alkaloids

1 large (OO) gelatin capsule with ground rue seeds = 0.7 gram = 15-45 mg alkaloids

-TIHKAL ; shulgin

-eg

 

[Jees]

...(Generally for MHRB and ACRB 7-15g is standard, generally closer to 15g on my part,...

Don't buy this so easily, something failed whether it's the material or brewing technique or both. Come try my 7 grams mimo brews you wont ask for a miligram more :?:

TBH, I feel this 7 - 15 mimo is dangerous advise to spread, but then again we have this deja vu when it comes to doses and our beloved friend entheogenic gnosis is it not :d , and I also know his response already: what we do is serious. Indeed it is serious: serious misinformation :shock: and the proof of that is to consider mimosa and acacia as all the same when it comes down to grams . I would do a 15 acacia any time, but 15 mimo never ever (again).

Somewhat tongue in cheek but must been said nonetheless, peace

 

[○]

Be sure to be patient in your brewing process, your brewing process can greatly affect your end product.

I always leave the sediment. I shake before consuming, but never remove the sediment.

This.

Patience with the brewing process is very important ime, also drinking the whole bit - sediment and all has always yielded to deeply powerful, moving experiences.

 

[Jees]

For truthseeker1 and others who might be confused:
the sediment mentioned here above is not the remaining raw plant material, that was discarded after the boils. The sediment mentioned is the solids that newly form when boiling down the filtered/decanted liquid volume to a drink-able amount.

 

[truthseeker1]

Thank you for your helpfull replies!

entheogenic-gnosi, For all my previous 3 trips I used powdered form. Both the mhrb and rue separetely were simmered three times, each time I would let it simmer for around 3hrs, filter throuh a tshirt and put it in the fridge. I guess the brew is potent since my 2nd trip which was my first brew trip ever gave me CEV and ocasional slight OEVs at 4.7g mhrb, 3g rue w/o drinking the sediment. I also drank the brew without any diffeculty at all in that same 2nd trip. It is the 3rd trip that completely failed for a yet unknown reason. I mean both trips used brews from the exact same original brew.

Jees, really highly interesting, Lets see if I got this right from you, so you mean that the possible reason I didnt experience anything is because I didnt let the nausea continue and thus the stomach didnt let most of the content into the bloodstream. Thus only very small portion hit the blood stream. Good, now I think I understand the cause behind the very slow onset and why I got no experience. Sounds very logical. I probably held the naucea for like 5-10 min. I should have let the naucea continue as to let the stomach open to my system. This is roughly what you mean, right?

Now here is still the other detail I am suprised at. My 3rd failed trip; as I said earier I felt such a huge urge to vomit just at the lips/mouth touching the brew. I remmeber how I had to gather all my strength and close my eyes and struggle to the limit and beyond just to let the brews down my throat.. I really didnt even feel a thing when I consumed from the exact same original brew in the earlier 2nd trip.
Is it psychological really? This strong? what triggered this?

Thanks

 

[Jees]

Yes I suspect you vomited all out while the stomach had not led enough trough in the intestines. Sometimes the vomit contraction forces some content into the intestines, which is detected as a rapid and strong onset right after the purge. This I suppose did not happen to you.

Man, I sometimes purge it out before anything really kicks in, it happens.
Then other times no purge at all, its unpredictable.

I try fighting a premature purge by lying very still. Moving makes it all worse.
Usually it works and after 15 minutes the trouble is over.

Once like 2 hours in experience a purge can really change a loaded vibe into a bliss, this I recon is a healing purge and I welcome it any time. Purge change the "frequencies" and after such a time ( like 2 hours) no loss of actives as all is active already
It's the very premature ones I try to overcome by focus and lying still.

 

[truthseeker1]

Thanks for reassuring that!

I am going to try one more time and I will shake before drinking so that I take the sediment as well.
I will control the nausea as good as I can for at least 40min.

It is just a little sad that you have to feel very dizzy, nauseous and sick in order to see the gates of these "realities".

Only smoked DMT is w/o nausea. Mushrooms seem to have no nausea either and above that they are ready to consume. It is just too hard trying to find them in nature in any logical quantity for a dose or 2. But perhaps Ayahuasca/mimohuasca is worth it afterall since I heard mimohusaca is more visual, immersive, self healing, spiritual and meaningful than mushrooms but I dont know, I haven't tried mushrooms. Anyway I am really not trying psychedelics for "fun". I never touched drugs before, never drank or smoked, I am all here for self healing, trying to help fixing some personal issues.

I will write about my trip soon.

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

For truthseeker1 and others who might be confused:
the sediment mentioned here above is not the remaining raw plant material, that was discarded after the boils. The sediment mentioned is the solids that newly form when boiling down the filtered/decanted liquid volume to a drink-able amount.

Yes, possibly I should have clarified, after your brew has been thoroughly filtered and placed in the fridge for a period of time a sediment will form on the bottom of your container, I never remove this sediment, and always shake before serving.

I recently transcribed a terence mckenna rap regarding music on ayahuasca, however he also brings up sediment and how to handle it:

I recall many years ago, it was the night of a total eclipse, or Some hellish thing in the sky, a total eclipse of some kind, and Sun-water and adelle, who some of you may know, and I decided we would do this ayahuasca that I had in the back of the refrigerator for years, and this was like a long time ago, maybe 8 years ago, and I got it out, and I couldn't remember whether Don Fidel had said "always shake the bottle", or "never shake the bottle", so I thought to be safe we should shake the bottle, in case that's what he did say, so I did, and...and, you know, I've never had it hit me so hard, and we were...i had put on a record which I had previously found mildy entertaining, and the goal of the first 40 minutes of this ayahuasca trip became to survive the playing of this record, I mean it was so...I don't know, I have had other experiences, a friend of mine brought me a tape from tribal Afghanistan that I listened to one night in Hawaii on ayahuasca and I became so alarmed and freaked out and... I just... I could hear something in this music that just shouldn't have been there, I could hear that this wasn't wizened old rag-heads in mud huts...(inaudible)...these guys connections to the Martians musician union of....(inaudible)......it was highly agitating.... -terence McKenna

I transcribed this word for word, aside from a few inaudible portions, as far as I know there are no other available transcriptions of this lecture)

-----

As for my statements of 7-15g ACRB/MHRB I was speaking for myself, and the statement following the dose range "but go slow" was key

Generally for MHRB and ACRB 7-15g is standard, generally closer to 15g on my part, but go slow. Your peganum harmala can be taken consistently at 3g, maybe a little more if you choose...-eg

-eg

 

[dragonrider]

I once drank a very potent brew. I didn't felt anything for the first two hours. Nothing.

So i thought that something must have gone wrong in the preparation of this brew, or that maybe i had very weak caapi or chacruna.

I then, two and a half hours after ingestion, decided to eat some ciabatta.

The moment i swallowed the italian bread though.....wooosh. I was launched faster than i had ever been with ayahuasca. Within literally half a second i was, from being totally sober, totally immersed into hyperspace.
If i hadn't been sitting in a comfy sofa, i surely would have fallen on the floor.

The food must have activated my stomach or caused the portal to the bowls to open. But somehow, the food must have caused the immediate release of all the present alkaloïds into the bloodstream.

Maybe you should have eated something, instead of forcing yourself to puke.

 

[truthseeker1]

dragonrider , hmm, there is be something about that Italian bread. I read however about several reports where nothing happened for hours and then boom, a slice of bread activated everything. I ate some fruit but it didnt do it. I am sure that I puked way too early. I dont fast either as I only just eat lightly two days before, no oils, no fats, no spices, no red meat, but I still eat rice, chicken, veggies, some light spicing only perhaps. Not eating anything just makes me too sleepy and highly tired.

 

[truthseeker1]

I tried again 6gmimosa, 3g rue
Indeed it took 2-2.5hrs for the effects/experience and new CEVs to kick in. And the trip lasted 5hrs of adventure!

I battled nausea and it wasnt too bad really. I didnt puke as the extreme urge just came and almost vanished after a while. Will share more details later.
The hardest part is now strangely the actual drinnking of the brew, I just cant stand it at all, it was very very hard to drink it this time, I truly wanted to throw up right away, weird,(truly unlike the first time drinking the brew). I dont know why. I am therefore not sure if I can exprience aya again .

 

[TGO]

I tried again 6gmimosa, 3g rue
Indeed it took 2-2.5hrs for the effects/experience and new CEVs to kick in. And the trip lasted 5hrs of adventure!

I battled nausea and it wasnt too bad really. I didnt puke as the extreme urge just came and almost vanished after a while. Will share more details later.
The hardest part is now strangely the actual drinnking of the brew, I just cant stand it at all, it was very very hard to drink it this time, I truly wanted to throw up right away, weird,(truly unlike the first time drinking the brew). I dont know why. I am therefore not sure if I can exprience aya again .

I feel similar when it comes to drinking Aya anymore. But one can always go for the pharmahuasca route, which has become my favorite way to orally administer DMT. Jees started a great thread on predosing harmalas to eliminate (or at least reduce) the amount nausea involved and is definitely worth a read:

Maoi predosing. - Pharmahuasca - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

Good luck on your future endeavors!

 

[truthseeker1]

Thank you! pharma seems really smooth way of absorbing it.

I tried extracting DMT(for smoking) before and figured out I just couldnt do it as safely as I wanted. Lots of chemicals involved for me and I wasted 20g of mimosa completely.
Thus I went with brews . I will reduce the brew as much as possible, thus not a lot to drink.

What a great community this is!

 

[truthseeker1]

Pain, poisioning, nearly dying....

Sorry but not sure if to create new thread or not. Im a newbie here afterall

Latest trip today was really scary, and i really want to know from the more experienced what just happened. 7g rue brew filtered and 0.4g rue 10x extract. I was expecting a very intese experience, shouldnt be too high according to my research and my own dose testing. Skipping the visual diskussion here. I want to ask directly about something,

alarming:

Around 1hr thru the trip,(i purged a little 1half hr eatlier) I got an immense pain in my stomach, i thought it was naucea so i held it, pain went too far, breathing got harder, i tried to puke but nothing came out, i now got very terrified, my stomach felt super poisioned, pain was thru the roof, i tried to stand up and was about to yell in pain, i remembered to breath, but it was not helping, i was feeling that i was dying. I stopped the music, was truly terrified, like really wanted to call 911. Then somehow after some minutes this pain disapperad suddenly in seconds. I felt so good and relaxed the pain was gone. Almost no visuals during and after this pain, and shortly after the pain the trip completely stopped.

Now i really want to know what happened. Is this just a "spiritual" obe, nde or breakthrough or some actual physical toxity from some rue or food i ingested? It was a real physical pain mainly from the abdomen like a poison or something that spread out through my body.. it was terrifying. I thought just...that....you know...that was it, im dying for real here, oh and the horrible pain....

 

[Jees]

Typical no more than 4 gr rue is used, what kind of research inspired you to go for 7 gr + extract please? I think we have to search in that direction.

Discomfort to heavy discomfort is normal, what you describe would have gotten me bothered too

 

[truthseeker1]

Typical no more than 4 gr rue is used, what kind of research inspired you to go for 7 gr + extract please? I think we have to search in that direction.

Discomfort to heavy discomfort is normal, what you describe would have gotten me bothered too

Well, none of the former trips did ever include scary pain, or any pain for that matter,not even a discomfort, except nausea of course as you know, which I understand.

I gradually increased my dosages and the last dose before this scary trip was at around 6g mhrb and 3g rue brews. In that 6g mhrb trip i got the typical ayahuasca colours of cev but not a huge experience. I could handle far more mentally,I thougt. Thus wanted go 7g mhrb and 4g rue. The store vad only extract10x so i used 400mgs rue extract. So, theoretically it is only a slightly stronger dose than 6gmhrb, 3grue... right?

(Read also that 10x extract can also be much less potent, which is why i wanted to go for more than 300mgs)

In this latest experience i used rue 10x extract for the first time. Maybe 400mg oddly equals more than 4g rue seeds? At any rate i lever felt anything even remotely similar in all my eaflier trips..

Yeah i am worried about what has happened. Can i be assured for now that it wasnt you know a nde, obe, breakthrough attempt or similar things?(since i never experienced them yet, I think)

 

[Jees]

I imagine you're not keen to have same experience again.
Suggestion: tear it up, start doing only rue. Get that right first. Rue should and could give you a telling rue experience on its own, it's not the same of course but it is a way to see where that over the top pain came from. Start low, build up, see if it's the rue.

BTW, how was the rue brew made? Did boiling down volume perhaps concentrated acid to levels where it can hurt you. No kidding, a person had to be hospitalized after he had used phosphoric acid in his washes, collected the washes, reduced volume to a shot drink and got hurt. Phosphoric acid does not evaporate away during reducing like vinegar does, it just kept getting more acidic as the volume dropped. Just telling.

One should also not underestimate how immense hurtful gas in the intestines can be. Blocked gas creating local pressure in the tube, very hurtful. The moment a gas-lock frees itself by displacing, all pain can suddenly be gone as you describe.

I hope you get to the bottom of this.
Just sprouting some ideas here.