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Weird NULL experience from ayahuasca/mimohuasca

Migrated topic.
In this this last trip I used 10g shredded mhrb (unlike powder in previous times) and 1g 10x-extract-rue.

I simmered the 10g shredded mhrb in water (only as I did before) in one run for like 7hrs(maybe it was 2 simmerings, each around 5hrs). As the water was decreasing I refilled. After the 7hrs. I filtered through a tshirt. The clean brew is now put in the pot again and simmered again so that It got really reduced to perhaps half a cup( i.e. 10g worth of mhrb is now around a 120ml brew) This 120ml is a more concentrated brew than my previews brews. My previous 20g brewing was finalized at nearly 3 cups. So yes the volume here was much smaller then the earlier brews.


As for the rue for this trip, I used 0.4grams of the rue 10x-extract as it is, without any brewing. I just mixed it in a glass of water and drank as is. People here also said they took rue extract as is in gel caps without brewing as I understand(?).

So we have 3 suspects:
1- Shredded instead of powdered mhrb is the culprit?
2-mimosa being simmered for too long, or being reduced to low volume thus collecting more acid?how? is that what you mean? even though I only used water?
3-the rueextract is either too strong or contains bad chemicals from the manufacturing source?

I really want to get to the bottom of this, as you said. I am almost scarred by that experience. But I want to find out the cause.

I am not sure if this may help or anything, but already from the very start of the
CEV-trip-experience(before purge, before the pain), the type of CEV is completely different than my earlier trips. No magic, love, colors or spiritual fantasy feeling. CEVs here were composed of confusing pictures from daily real things, no emotions connection at all, saw some realistic images of everyday life things, 2 celebrities, tables, papers, schematics, random unconnected things, how do put this, hmm very "unayahuasca-ish". Other thing was that I saw so much disgusting images, blood and "dirtyness". But I was calm the entire time, I was just watching and chilling for whatever came to me. CEVs felt shattered, unconnected, unconnecting and artificial from the very first moment. No connection or impact on me emotionally either.

Cant thank you enough for helping me.
Thanks
 
truthseeker1 said:
...So we have 3 suspects:
1- Shredded instead of powdered mhrb is the culprit?
2-mimosa being simmered for too long, or being reduced to low volume thus collecting more acid?how? is that what you mean? even though I only used water?
3-the rueextract is either too strong or contains bad chemicals from the manufacturing source?...
Click to expand...
1- should never be of an issue. Powder just means less time necessary;
2- if you did not add acid yourself, no issue here either;
3- only experiments can tell and is my proposal.

0.4 of 10x extract should resemble 4 gr rue and should be fine. In glass of water is OK.
Boiling: if you do not run a pot dry, you cant screw up a brew actually.
I cant see you made a mistake anywhere in the process.

It's still possible to have had an occasional intestinal confrontation act once of a kind. If I were you I'd check first 0.2 of the rue extract solo. If ok then on another day check 0.4 of the extract solo. Then you know at least something.
 
Thank you!
I will try 200mg solo and see what happens. Do you think there will be tripping effects that will last for hours so that I need to set a full day for it?

I want to add also that I may have simmered the mimosa perhaps a little too long. The pan wasnt dry but the water level at the end was low. Perhaps what I felt was a "vasoconstriction?" in the area of stomach-to-lungs-to the throat area? Hard to describe the feeling but I felt hard to breath along with super strong dizziness.
 
truthseeker1 said:
Thank you!
I will try 200mg solo and see what happens. Do you think there will be tripping effects that will last for hours so that I need to set a full day for it?
Click to expand...
This vary much personally. Me, 200 mg rueHCL there comes a brief moment I (not necessarily but) better lay down for 15 minutes, not trippy but stoned-foggy-ish, and a nice long afterglow. A friend is like wutt? I only feel some stomach going on for the rest nothing much.
No need for a full day off, just reserve the first 4 hours for potential foggy-ness, after that an afterglow which should not prevent doing stuff. Just my thoughts.
 
Ok, test with 200mg 10x rue extract done. No effects..? Last lightmeal as usual taken a couple of hours earlier

Felt the stomach as you said going on a little only. Also, maybe some really really small nausea came for a minute or so, cant call it nausea though but you get what Im sayin. Besides some possible tiny almost nonexistent dizziness(possibly because of not eating much though) I didn't experience anything. I am not sure what I should feel like though.

Am I supposed to feel something from solo 200mg if the rue is active?
 
When Jees speaks of rue.HCl, he probably means something that is a bit different than what you have. There is really no way of knowing how much harmine and harmaline is in your "10x rue extract" unless you have it analyzed or purify it yourself with some saltings.
 
Either encapsulate some ground Rue seed powder in capsules (about 5 or 6 capsules ime, which is about 3.5 to 4.8 grams depending on the size of the capsules) or encapsulate 200mgs of some Rue freebase extract, i would say ditch the 10x Rue extract, people don't seem to have much success with those kinds of extracts afaik, but Rue seed powder and freebase Rue extract have always worked for me. Once you get the dosage of Rue where it needs to be, and get the Mimosa where it needs to be, and get the timing right, it'll work, for sure.
 
pitubo, well, I believe/hope Jees understood that I used 10x rue extract and not rueHCL.:)

ShamensStamen as you said, it seems that this is just the case, 10x extract are very weak but I will test more to be sure.

Will be testing 400mg solo. If I dont get noticable effects and no discomfort I will know that the rues weren't the cause to the horrible discomfort I experienced earlier. But I am not sure if I will know.

Thanks
 
truthseeker1 said:
pitubo, well, I believe/hope Jees understood that I used 10x rue extract and not rueHCL.:)
Click to expand...
Of course I knew that, after pitubo woke me up :lol:
Anyway your 10x then 0.2gr represents 2 gr rue which is ideal for checking out very carefully the extract. Let us know how it goes :thumb_up:

This is the problem with 10x extracts and so: 0.2 represents 2 gr rue, but then it says nothing about how many harmalas is in there. Exaggerated: if it was bunk seed you have your desired weight and no power.
That's why working with HCL form or freebase is so much more target friendly.
 
I just finished going thru 420mg of 10x extract(repeating myself hehe:p less confusion is always better imo :)

The experience: Microscopic-or Zero nausea. Zero discomfort.
Stronger effects than 200mg, only noticeable thing perhaps is some slightly more dizziness that comes and go. Otherwise nothing major at all. I could walk, talk, bike, wash etc w/o difference. No nausea, pain or discomfort. Only some little dizziness that came and went. Now, during this test trip(being who I am, a truthseeker) I really analysed the details of these small effects so perhaps the following effects are a little exaggerated. What I felt is basically slight flavors of


-Relaxation and meditative state
-Little pseudo paranoia: occasionally misstating (for a split second) ordinary things around me for something else.
-Alertness
-Focus, could see/hear more things in better detail.


So, Jees, my 3 experiences thus far from came from the same bought bag/source of 10x rue extract
1st 400mg taken with mhrb: recieved one really scary painful discomfort.
2nd 200mg test1 almost no effects or really tiny "flavours" of the above listed effects
3rd 420mg test2 very small effects or only flavours of the above listed effects. some dizyness.

In the 200mg and 420mg tests, I felt only marginal things, no discomfort, tiny or big of any kind.
Why did I feel horrible with that 400mg from the same patch of 10x extract.

Could it still be the rue extract? i..e could there be evil ingredients/chemicals that are inert when taken solo but destructive when taken with mhrb DMT..,unlikely, right? I hope so, :)?

Or could it just be the mimosa. I never had vasoconstriction that I know of, perhaps what I felt (discomfort in chest and breathing) are signs of hyperventilation/vasoconstriction..?

Thanks
tseeker
 
Jees said:
truthseeker1 said:
pitubo, well, I believe/hope Jees understood that I used 10x rue extract and not rueHCL.:)
Click to expand...
Of course I knew that, after pitubo woke me up :lol:
Anyway your 10x then 0.2gr represents 2 gr rue which is ideal for checking out very carefully the extract. Let us know how it goes :thumb_up:

This is the problem with 10x extracts and so: 0.2 represents 2 gr rue, but then it says nothing about how many harmalas is in there. Exaggerated: if it was bunk seed you have your desired weight and no power.
That's why working with HCL form or freebase is so much more target friendly.
Click to expand...

So Jees, what is your expert educated guess/view on this now?
Rue tested alone gave only small effects at 400mg, can I be sure that it was not the rue that caused the huge discomfort when I took it with mhrb brew:surprised ?

Thanks
 
Lost my expert license long ago ;) (in a previous life actually)
I know as much as you do, that there is now a firm indicator that it was not the rue.
To be even more sure you could repeat that test just once more, if same again then you can start to trust the rue completely. Is what I should do in your place.

If all OK, then on another day I would do that same rue again plus only half the amount mimo that gave the painful session, meaning 3.5 gr mimo bark brew. Or if you want to be even more cautious just 2 gr mimo brew. Checking out the waters.

Chances are that you had an odd abdominal issue that will not repeat again easily, but I would not challenge this with too much mimo at once again. Just my thoughts.
 
Haha, once experienced, always experienced maybe? :)

Tried 320mg rue 10xextract, and 3g mhrb brew..

Some naucea only, no discomfort, no big experience, no CEVs. Instead a very opened up thinking state that is the very beginning level of any true CEV filled aya trip. I at least know now that for CEV, strangeness, synchronicity, i.e. the actual experience to start I need around 4.5g of mhrb brew(from trial and error). I still however kind of expected some more powerful experience with this 320mg rue 3g mhrb. But at least no discomfort at all except ofcourse some nausea. Strangely, taking 420mg rue extract alone gives far less nausea than 0.3g rue extract with the mimosa, so perhaps the mimosa is the main purge factor?
 
Oh yeah as soon as the tryptamine alkaloids are in, it gets more difficult for the stomach than with rue alone, sure thing.
Good testing :thumb_up:
 
Tried caapi for the first time, with mhrb. Black caapi : 20g, mhrb: 6g. Successful trip. No discomfort, was again deep in Pharaos land for 3 hrs, have to think first before trying to describe the experience..


So I just has to be that rue extract that caused the discomfort, although that same rue extract was instead inactive (low potency?) at other times?. I am not sure if I was unlucky and got something unrelated to rue extract that coincided with taking the extract. The very creepy part here is PRECEDING the horrid pain, i.e. at the start of the trip I got very wildy different CEV, very dark, disgusting and kind of everyday life related items in the visuals, papers, tables, schematics... At any rate I am not going to try rue extract again. It is going to be all "homebrewed" from now on. One note though is that the hardest part about the trip(by very far) is the actual drinking of the brew. it got exponentially more difficult as if it something supernatural surrounding the actual horrid drinking act.. Pharmahuasca next.

I know this thread included too many other things beyond the original topic, but since I am a beginner I didnt want to create many threads. This thread has been basically for my questions thus far.

Now back to the completely unexpected pharaos. I get through all these psychedelic experience because I want to try to resolve personal issues of mines that are all psychological. Strange enough even if I - fully aware during the trip-tried to guide my trip towards my issues, the trip DECIDEDLY only goes through the Pharao lands.. I thought like you know, the trip should go towards the subject that relates to you, your deep fears, deep thoughts. On the other hands it keeps returning to Pharaos..
Something starts to make think that perhaps psychedelics activates some special part of our consciousness... maybe the place where we all have the concept of magic..
 
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