What I think are The Most Important Entheogens for me

[OneIsEros]

I found LSD to be very stimulating and visual. It was a rush of creative new ideas and exciting visual changes. It was the start of my journey with psychedelics. I was young and didnt know how to treat the substance with respect or thoughfulness. So that probably colored my impression of those LSD experiences. But I did not find it to be very entheogenic at all. It opened me up to a whole new range of possibilities and ideas. But it left me feeling worn out and confused about what to do with all those new insights. I felt that it offered no guidance or direction. It was just a whirlwind of novelty. It left me with many more questions than answers.

This is all too often the case with LSD. It is an analytic entheogen. The trick is to be able to integrate deep spiritual truths analytically. Then the entheogenic experience unfolds. I am very uniquely suited to entheogenesis with LSD (deep background in Neoplatonism, philosophical mysticism).

 

[OneIsEros]

It was over a decade later that Cubensis mushrooms became important in my life. The mushroom experience felt much deeper and more spiritual than LSD. The visuals were not as profound as with LSD, but it felt like I was learning a lot more from the trips. Mushrooms made me feel connected to nature in a way that I had never felt before. I remember sitting under a tree in a canyon in the desert. The buzz of the insects and the chatter of the birds would build in these huge waves that I had never been aware of before. I could feel the energy of life all around me. That was something that was completely new to me. But mushrooms would also create a fogginess in my head that could sometimes turn into bad emotional feelings and a haze that was hard to think through. Overall, it felt like mushrooms were spiritual and powerful and heart opening. But I would mostly describe their impact on me as helpful in a desconstructive way. Mushrooms showed me false patterns of thought. They showed me how disconnected my life was from the natural world. But they didnt really show me the path forward. Mushrooms opened my awareness, but there was a fogginess that prevented me from understanding what to do about it.

Also very insightful. Ayahuasca and 5-MeO-DMT do not carry the distracting "foggy" quality. I have heard other species of mushrooms do not carry this as much. But I would wager even pure psilocin cannot match the sober clarity of endogenous entheogens. I deeply prefer them for this reason, though at this point my meditation practice is strong enough that mushrooms no longer have this drawback for me.

 

[OneIsEros]

Trichocereus cacti were the last of these 3 psychedelics to enter my life. And I have found cactus to be the most entheogenic and profound of the 3. Cactus has a clarity to the trip that was missing from LSD and mushrooms. With cactus, even at times when the visuals are strong and I am plunged deep into a psychedelic state of mind, there is a sense that my consciousness is sharper and clearer than ever. There is a nootropic-like effect from the cactus that I have not experienced with anything else. And that effect often lingers for days or weeks after a cactus trip. Because of this, cactus has been the most edifying psychedelic for me. Because during the trip, and also afterward during the integration phase, my mind feels very sharp and able to process what is being revealed and opened up by the medicine. Cactus has helped me to work through emotional challenges like nothing else. It has led to concrete changes in my life like no other psychedelic. Specifically, I have seen big changes in terms of how I treat other people and in terms of how much compassion I am able to show to myself. In addition there have been other important changes to my lifestyle that were initiated by insights from cactus trips. Cactus gives a sense of a guiding force that continues to have impact long after the trip ends. It has given a sense of spiritual purpose to mundane aspects of life that lacked that nuance before. Cactus has been the most superior psychedelic for me.

Completely agreed. Mescaline has all the advantages of LSD, with none of the drawbacks, and deeper entactogenic power as well. I highly suggest you try ayahuasca or one of the many alternative DMT plants with syrian rue. Then I think you will see the tryptamine power without any drawback. As mescaline is the greatest of the phenethylamines, so in my opinion is DMT the greatest of the tryptamines.

P.S. sorry for posting each of these responses individually. I am high as heck right now.

 

[dithyramb]

Thanks for your account, monomind. I am getting more and more interested in changa.

It seems to me that psilocybin mushrooms are not meant so much to provide guidance in life (a concept which overlaps with integrating experiences into daily life), and they are more of a doorway to Spirit and Ecology.

I have had a period when I was really into cactus. I had encountered a guiding spirit and impeccable connection to life which I hadn't encountered before. There are people who hold cactus in the highest esteem and see it as the highest teacher and I can understand why. The only reason I discontinued my relationship with it was because I was called to focus my energy on local master plants. And I found something that feels even more profound for me...

 

[monomind]

Psilocybin is much less likely to push me in the direction of the "mystical" than LSD is. People respond to different teachers differently.

This is a very good point. The main ingredient in every entheogenic experience is actually the mind of the practitioner. And different people might have qualitatively different encounters with the exact same substance.

For me LSD is a substance for "Enlightenment" (Buddha nature) while psilocybin is a substance for calling specific forces in the mind: The primordial chaos, Gaya, Ecology, the mother goddess etc.

I have a theory that people who are more "left-brained" ( i.e. more celebral and analytical ) will gravitate more towards psilocybin and maybe tryptamines in general, while people who are more chaotic/fluid/emotionally open will find LSD more appealing and meaningful. ( And I apologize in advance for the gross generalization here.. surely it is not that simple )

Any takers ?

 

[OneIsEros]

The main ingredient in every entheogenic experience is actually the mind of the practitioner. And different people might have qualitatively different encounters with the exact same substance.

This is why I am making the claim that the absence of cognitive suggestion/guidance/distortion or whatever you want to call it with the sober-minded endogenous tryptamines makes them, paradoxically, the deepest entheogens. It’s just you, and... spirit. Not a spirit, just... spirit. Your spirit. The endogenous psychedelics are not spirit proper to a mushroom, a cactus, technology, etc. --- it is a spirit proper to your own personal biology. It is the spirit most proper to the human brain.

For this reason it does not push your thoughts in certain directions... Because your thoughts are yours with endogenous psychedelics! But in terms of meditation practice, I have found nothing that facilitates deeper meditation than endogenous entheogens.

 

[OneIsEros]

After some reflection, having tried oral 5-MeO-DMT, I think that for meditation practice I ultimately favour ayahuasca among all psychedelics.... followed shortly thereafter by 5-MeO-DMT.

So ultimately for meditation practice, my list goes:
Ayahuasca
Oral 5-MeO-DMT
Psilocybin mushrooms
Mescaline cactus
LSD

I’ve had more intense individual entheogen experiences on LSD than any of them, but it is difficult to meditate on. It is great for several hours of hot yoga classes if you can keep your shit together in a public setting though. I also prefer mescaline over mushrooms, but again, it seems easier to sit and meditate on mushrooms, and for me so long as I sustain a sufficient degree of concentration during meditation, the experience is virtually guaranteed to become entheogenic.

I have not tried oral 5-HO-DMT (butotenin) or ibogaine yet, but I very highly suspect I won’t prefer either of them over ayahuasca for meditation purposes. Given that meditation is my central practice with psychedelics, and that ayahuasca and ayahuasca analogues are cheap, legal, easily accessible, physically harmless (unlike the potentially harmful compounds 5-MeO-DMT, 5-HO-DMT and ibogaine), and the most visionary.... I probably won’t even be experimenting with other psychedelics too much anymore. I had wondered if oral 5-MeO-DMT would be superior to ayahuasca, and while it is a close second, I’ve got to give it to ayahuasca as my favourite psychedelic for meditation.

 

[rOm]

Protip,ifyou want a 5MeO DMT close to oral, try pluggin it.

This is a safe approach, doesn't require RIMA, has a softer comeup thanvaping and longer duration. Doesn't have the bad drip problem of nasal or sublingual and can be used for meditationorotherpractices, normal doses would be 5 mg HCL - low dose you are still functionnal to 10 mg medium dose up to 15mg strong.

Iwouldrecommend starting atno more than 5 mg to test the water.

Don't underestimate the power of this Road Of Administration for some molecules. Ithink it is maybe the best ROA for pure 5 MeO DMT. Oral is great feeling but it isrisky andshouldn't be a commonpractice and I still reckon it should be discouraged.
Same for oral harmalas and MDMA, you may do it and be fine but it should still be stressed to avoid that for inherent risks.
Now OneISEros I think maybe few like us seem to react well to it,I react well to vaping it and am comfortable doing it alone but it still normally a NO for most psychonauts.
I really Love Iboga, I never worked with high doses like 20grams in one go but rather 2 grams everyday or twice a day andbuild it, now it is hard to find quality. Extracts like PTA or TA are generally appreciated more than the pricey pure Ibogaine.
However I'm looking forward to Ibogaine from Vaocangine conversion as it would relieve strezsson ibogas ( now there are many farms growing it,while it was hardly cultitvated before and wild foragaing even put the tree at risks around 2012 ). So If you get iboga, do some research, takeyour time to find a farmed certified to not encourage its traffick.No srouce talk but I think its important to be conscious about our impact,and minimize as much as we can the bad outcomes wemay have with our consumation choices ( that beibng said synthettics also impacts negatively the environment has it also pollute a lot the air,soil and water to usepetrochemicals abundantly so its not a "natural VS synthetic good VS evil problem but finer than that ).

 

[OneIsEros]

That’s all really great info, thank-you rOm

 

[Jagube]

( that beibng said synthettics also impacts negatively the environment has it also pollute a lot the air,soil and water to usepetrochemicals abundantly so its not a "natural VS synthetic good VS evil problem but finer than that ).

I don't think it's the same scale of problems. I don't know how ibogaine is synthesized, but I'd imagine at least some of the chemicals can be distilled and reused.

If you look at the pharmaceutical industry, which synthesizes orders of magnitude more chemicals, the amount of ibogaine to meet the demand - considering a solid dose is not something one would want to do often - is probably negligible.

The same goes for 5-MeO-DMT, it has been said that the synthetic version is preferable as more sustainable (all potential differences in the subjective experience aside).

With ibogaine, I opt for the rootbark and TA extracts as full spectrum is said to be a considerably richer experience in this particular case. And that doesn't come as a surprise, considering ibogaine constitutes only 25% of the alkaloids.

Good to know iboga farms are cropping up!

Iboga has a special place in my heart too, it's just that it's not something I do or would want to do often.

 

[OneIsEros]

Iboga has a special place in my heart too, it's just that it's not something I do or would want to do often.

That’s the sense I get. It seems like it’s rough - not just on the heart. In high doses with rodents it’s been shown to induce brain damage - and those high doses if I recall correctly weren’t too far off from standard flood doses. 5-MeO-DMT and 5-HO-DMT have their risks, but they don’t seem to have any neurotoxic qualities. When discussing regular use to supplement a sustained meditation practice, all the other natural serotonergic psychedelics (and LSD) seem like more sustainable options for one’s body and brain.

 

[Tony6Strings]

LSD is the compound which has been seeing the most action at my place this summer. Besides cannabis. Been trippin some everlovin sack, can I hear a hallelujah!

 

[Jagube]

That’s the sense I get. It seems like it’s rough - not just on the heart. In high doses with rodents it’s been shown to induce brain damage - and those high doses if I recall correctly weren’t too far off from standard flood doses. 5-MeO-DMT and 5-HO-DMT have their risks, but they don’t seem to have any neurotoxic qualities. When discussing regular use to supplement a sustained meditation practice, all the other natural serotonergic psychedelics (and LSD) seem like more sustainable options for one’s body and brain.

A flood dose is not necessarily something to be thought of as a standard or average dose.

When I had my flood, I didn't get out of bed until 36 hours later, and even then I was still wobbly and seeing crazy tracers. That was a decade ago and I haven't felt the call yet to do it again; and it's not because I'm concerned about potential damage to my body, but because it lasts so long.

In traditional Bwiti use, a flood dose is a once-in-a-lifetime endeavor, a rite of passage. But they use lower doses more frequently and adaptogenic microdoses are used in hunting.

There is no reason to think that more-or-less regular use of smaller doses (which are still entheogenic, visionary etc. and can be as intense as your 'average' LSD / mushroom / aya journey, if longer lasting) would cause damage to the heart or brain of a healthy individual.

If you're in it for meditation, iboga may not be the most suitable tool as the physical effects (ataxia, leading to immobility) get rather intense before the (presumably more interesting in this context) mind effects manifest.

However, the afterglow is great for meditation. Granted, after a flood dose, it can be as long as 3 months. It's a very warm, peaceful, shanti feeling, being a place of accepting what is and noticing things without emotional attachment.
The afterglow can also be a good opportunity to make changes to one's life, and that's a major factor that drives people to do a flood dose, whether for addiction or psychospiritual reasons.

 

[VibeSurfer]

After trying mostly everything I wanted to try, I'm done trying new substances with a few exceptions. I still want to try Moxy and DPT (and probably just once.) My Cebil seeds finally came in so I can try Bufotenine too, and that's it.

That being said, the one's I'm keeping in my corner for sure are:

Mescaline/Peyote - my go to for any social tripping or on days where I just want to let loose and have some spiritually fulfilling laughter, relaxation, and good old fashioned childish fun. It's easy to have an endless supply of mesc so why not chug it.

LSD - I'm probably only having it rarely. At doses high enough for me to enjoy, this one sets my ADHD into overdrive for up to 2 or 3 weeks after taking it and keeping up with day to day levels of productivity necessary for adult life is grueling, uncomfortable, and downright unnecessary for regular use for me. I don't think I'm coming back to LSD until I feel more grounded in life I guess, but I would never shut myself off from it forever because I remember what it has done for me and I know how deeply it can be felt.

2CB - Just such a perfect substitute for any recreational aspect of LSD or MDMA. I can pop one of these back, have a fantastic clear headed time with social conversations easily, and go back to feeling perfectly normal the very next day. In and out.

DMT/changa - I still cannot come to any kind of certainty about any conclusion I attempt to draw from this majestic beast. I know It and I will dance forever. I do it as much as is necessary. Sometimes a lot, sometimes never. However, I must say I'm finding myself getting more and more out of it the more I restrain myself from smoalking.... ahhhh this drug! Sometimes I just realize the seismic amount of perspective, knowledge, and wisdom I have about it and what it can do that has come from the many conversations and information available from the great minds on the nexus alongside my adventures with it myself and lots of careful reflection. Sometimes I wonder about how my life experiences and my eventual path to DMT shapes my experiences and revelations with it, and then I think about people I have met here, and what their journey with DMT has been like. What do you know that I will never know? That which you could never articulate? What does it feel like to you to understand something vital all of a sudden? A thought, the genesis of which, began with another thought as long as years ago? Then all at once drumming up from your subconscious, erupting into your conscious mind, while you are in traffic, the grocery store, or taking a shower? What did this teach you about love, conviction, confidence, living, knowing, feeling, being? What does it look like in your head when you come alive, sober or high? The scope and sheer omnipotence of this molecule is something I feel often.

5-MeO-DMT - The biggest fish in the sea if you ask me! And I am GRATEFUL to be a barnacle from time to time. No questions about why they call that one the god molecule. None whatsoever. The only times I can really remember things about these experiences that could be explained is in the few split seconds of the comeup. Memories are triggered immediately from the taste, thousands of lessons hitting my brain, and then the present trip overrides and does its thing. It leaves you how it leaves you - if you know, you know.

Ayahuasca and Pharmahuasca - I have come to and end of my days where I underestimate the power that lies behind these doors. Letting loose the floodgates can leave room for little else at times. I think I will make a point to do this once a year and prepare a lot more for it mentally and physically.

 

[dithyramb]

Here is interesting food for thought on 5 MeO DMT (vs DMT).

5-MeO-DMT vs. N,N-DMT: The 9 Lenses

TL;DR Some substances seem to be much better at treating psychological trauma than others, even when they are seemingly similar in nature. We have reason to believe that 5-MeO-DMT is significantly …

qualiacomputing.com

I suspect that 5 MeO DMT containing medicines with much healing power will emerge in the near future.

İ never felt a strong enough call to try vaporized DMT, but I really am curious about the 5 MeO DMT experience.

 

[dithyramb]

From an oral (ayahuasca analogue) perspective, I am starting to view the endogenous / plant tryptamines (DMT, 5 MeO DMT, NMT, etc) as analogous to the caapi and rue beta carbolines (harmine, harmaline, thh, etc).

İt seems there are no plants with widespread use for mixing with caapi/rue which only have DMT. For some reason chacruna was said to be pure DMT when in fact it has a small amount of NMT. Chaliponga might be closer to pure DMT but somehow I am not convinced that it is. NMT is nice to have in the blend (with an appropriate ratio), bringing warmth. There are also people who feel a mixture of 5 MeO DMT with DMT (in an appropriate ratio) feels superior to pure DMT, this being a less explored combination especially with beta carbolines. İ previously thought this is not a desirable combination for an ayahuasca analogue because of my experience with Phalaris aquatica (the experience is great but just becomes something too different to be an ayahuasca analogue), later as I got to know Phragmites with an appropriate preparation, I really started digging the 5 MeO and N,N combination with rue... (At the same time more wholistic/balanced/grounded and cosmic while still being a practical Ayahuasca analogue). Of course it is much more than that, it is whole plant spirits ;-)

What I am getting at is, I cannot separate and classify these substances all by themselves. They appear to me as inseparable as are harmine, harmaline, and THH (or also psilocybin, psilocin, and baeocystin for that matter).

 

[OneIsEros]

That is an insight I have pondered before, and am in general agreement with.

 

[OneIsEros]

From an oral (ayahuasca analogue) perspective, I am starting to view the endogenous / plant tryptamines (DMT, 5 MeO DMT, NMT, etc) as analogous to the caapi and rue beta carbolines (harmine, harmaline, thh, etc).

İt seems there are no plants with widespread use for mixing with caapi/rue which only have DMT. For some reason chacruna was said to be pure DMT when in fact it has a small amount of NMT. Chaliponga might be closer to pure DMT but somehow I am not convinced that it is. NMT is nice to have in the blend (with an appropriate ratio), bringing warmth. There are also people who feel a mixture of 5 MeO DMT with DMT (in an appropriate ratio) feels superior to pure DMT, this being a less explored combination especially with beta carbolines. İ previously thought this is not a desirable combination for an ayahuasca analogue because of my experience with Phalaris aquatica (the experience is great but just becomes something too different to be an ayahuasca analogue), later as I got to know Phragmites with an appropriate preparation, I really started digging the 5 MeO and N,N combination with rue... (At the same time more wholistic/balanced/grounded and cosmic while still being a practical Ayahuasca analogue). Of course it is much more than that, it is whole plant spirits ;-)

What I am getting at is, I cannot separate and classify these substances all by themselves. They appear to me as inseparable as are harmine, harmaline, and THH (or also psilocybin, psilocin, and baeocystin for that matter).

Just so you know, this conjunction of different supportive psychoactive chemicals toward a single primary chemical's effect is known as the "entourage effect". Examples are as you mentioned, psilocybin with baesocystin, or with cannabis THC and the other cannabinoids, etc.

Something I'll add here is that while I tend to prefer plants because of these extra alkaloids --- with LSD, I don't prefer the "extra" bits.

There are certain by-products in LSD synthesis such as iso-LSD which are supposedly not active on their own, but do in my experience seem to affect the experience in a negative way. This is reminiscent of how things like CBD and other cannabinoids or terpenes in cannabis are not noticeably active in their own right, but are very formatively active in conjunction with THC (same goes for other supposedly "inactive" elements of psychedelic plants which appear to influence the effects of the "primarily active" chemicals). But with LSD, the presence of iso-LSD and related impurities from the synthesis make the experience feel like you have deep fried your head in dirty electricity. The same goes for MDMA, to be honest, but I don't know as much about the impure by-products that go into that synthesis. I've heard meth heads make similar claims about different batches of meth.

This is a claim that many in the psychedelic community think is bogus, but virtually every LSD chemist in history attests to its truth, and I think it is largely similar to the skepticism people used to have about the notion that even something as minor as terpene elements in cannabis could still affect the experience of THC dramatically. With plants, nature seems less like a chemist and more like a chef, or a band of musicians working in harmony. But with synthetics, purity seems to be crucial for the best results.

 

[OneIsEros]

Also, I was thinking in terms of the "most essential" medicines list...

Ayahuasca for entheogens
Iboga for drug detox therapy
Cannabis for treatment of a vast plethora of medical symptoms
MDMA for entactogenic psychotherapy