I was kind of thinking the same thing.
WS
-
Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).
What is a good beginner's entheogen ?
- Thread starter Neo Guado
- Start date
I was kind of thinking the same thing.
WS
magic clown
aka Slap Stick Sam
warrensaged said:
I wasn't under any such illusions. Make no mistake. These are the entheogens of the inhabitants of the 21st century.
Right on!
Having never tried 2C-anything, I obviously don't know:wink:
WS
rellik
Rising Star
noone has said dmt 
smoked is pretty short so if someone does not like the trip space, they are out relatively fast. a mild aya dose is also pretty easy to handle for a longer experience.
though as a first entheogen, i guess shrooms are the least strange to common folks when it comes to ingestion. id guess its probably the one that people take most often as their first hallucinogenic
a bag of home depot morning glories worked fine for me
rambling scrambling....
smoked is pretty short so if someone does not like the trip space, they are out relatively fast. a mild aya dose is also pretty easy to handle for a longer experience.
though as a first entheogen, i guess shrooms are the least strange to common folks when it comes to ingestion. id guess its probably the one that people take most often as their first hallucinogenic
a bag of home depot morning glories worked fine for me
rambling scrambling....
I do not really like the natural vs non-natural argument. To me everything is natural, that is all the "unnatural" drugs are made from natural building materials (atoms) and they are not different to their naturality /un-naturality from my wooden stool, which did not exist in nature but was made from natural building materials (wood tissue)
And I have to agree with acolon_5, "synthetic drugs" do not have less spiritual value, it may as well be this false dichotomy that drives false conclusions about the alleged spiritual nature of psychedelic drugs.
And I have to agree with acolon_5, "synthetic drugs" do not have less spiritual value, it may as well be this false dichotomy that drives false conclusions about the alleged spiritual nature of psychedelic drugs.
69ron
Rising Star
I don't particularly like new drugs synthesized by mankind, only because they haven't been around long enough to stand the test of time like all the ones synthesized by plants.
Make no mistake, even bufotenine is not truly natural, it is chemically synthesized by plants and doesn’t exist as a natural element in the universe.
Now something like LSD, which only existed in the last century, is relatively new compared to something like bufotenine, which has been synthesized by plants for thousands, if not millions of years.
Now the universe is massive. We are a very tiny spec in the cosmos. It is very likely that LSD exists somewhere in the universe synthesized by a plant. After all LSH is nearly identical to LSD and it is synthesized by a few plants here on earth.
Plants are intelligent beings which are able to manipulate matter. Their intelligence is different from ours, they cannot move, but nevertheless, they do manipulate their environment. They take the elements and piece them together to create new molecules. When a human does this we call it artificial, when a plant does this we call it natural. The only real difference is that the natural plant compounds have been around for thousands of years and most of the artificial human made compounds have been around for a few hundred years or less. Both types of compounds require a life form of some kind to synthesize them into existence.
Make no mistake, even bufotenine is not truly natural, it is chemically synthesized by plants and doesn’t exist as a natural element in the universe.
Now something like LSD, which only existed in the last century, is relatively new compared to something like bufotenine, which has been synthesized by plants for thousands, if not millions of years.
Now the universe is massive. We are a very tiny spec in the cosmos. It is very likely that LSD exists somewhere in the universe synthesized by a plant. After all LSH is nearly identical to LSD and it is synthesized by a few plants here on earth.
Plants are intelligent beings which are able to manipulate matter. Their intelligence is different from ours, they cannot move, but nevertheless, they do manipulate their environment. They take the elements and piece them together to create new molecules. When a human does this we call it artificial, when a plant does this we call it natural. The only real difference is that the natural plant compounds have been around for thousands of years and most of the artificial human made compounds have been around for a few hundred years or less. Both types of compounds require a life form of some kind to synthesize them into existence.
DMTripper
John Murdoch IV
69ron said:
This is what I'm talking about. I just don't trust humans to make chemicals that affect the mind! They've made to many mistakes already. And all chemical drugs I've used have had bad side effects.
So I like to use the word entheogen just to distinguish the natural plant hallucinogens from the chemical psychedelics!
I'm not saying I'm totally against lab made chemicals. I don't care if they're around and others use them. I just choose not to use them myself and I don't want to confuse them with the natural ones.
So I call the these natural psychedelic entheogens but the lab/man made ones just psychedelics or halucinogens!
So I take it it is safe to trust chemicals that affect the mind as long as they are made by plants? Well, some of the chemicals that plants make can really mess up with one's mind, take tropane alkaloids for example or all this massive plethora of plant-made poisons.
But all this is nonsense - it does not really differ much whether a psychedilic is man made or plant, fungi or animal made, it's all in how you use it, what guidance you have and how much you know about it. Which of course means that under certain conditions dmt, psilocybin, lsd, 2C series, MDMA and tropane alkaloids can all be used for delivering highly rewarding experiences.
But all this is nonsense - it does not really differ much whether a psychedilic is man made or plant, fungi or animal made, it's all in how you use it, what guidance you have and how much you know about it. Which of course means that under certain conditions dmt, psilocybin, lsd, 2C series, MDMA and tropane alkaloids can all be used for delivering highly rewarding experiences.
Ronue said:
Yes! Man made or Plant made, all have unwanted side effects, some more than others. It is how you use each chemical. 2C series phens are great for exploring our actions, deep insight, and problem solving. My wife and I used to use 2C-I as "therapy" for each other. We would stay up till the wee hours of the morning talking about past events, plans for the future, and problems we had been having. It opened us up similar to MDMA without the forced loved-up feeling and sexual push. We found it extremely helpful when we were having some relationship problems. Many man made psycadelics are quite useful for certian things.
Now I'm not saying that plant synthesised psycadelics are not useful....many of them are extremely useful as well. I'm just saying to rule out all man made chemicals (that have not been found in nature YET) are not good or dangerous is a huge generalization
I believe that harmine was synthesised long before it was found to be the same chemical as the alkaloid telapathine, which was isolated from syrian rue.... so it is both man made as well as plant made... Just because a chemical has not been found in nature does not rule out the possibility that nature does not produce it. Remember that methamphetamine has been found in nature...and it is one NASTY drug. I DO believe that some plants are able to take you deeper and are able to guide you. Aya is the perfect example. To me true ayahuasca (Caapi vine and P. Viridis or Chalipong) provides a much deeper experience than an MAOI + crystal DMT. True aya seems to have a spirit that guides you though the experience.... I have not found this to be true with pharmahuasca.
DMTripper, I respect your belief, I just don't agree with the generalizations of plant chems > man made chems.
To me LSD although it's synthetic is something i have far less problems with than salvia, for instance of wich little is known. Of many synthetic substances, the long and short term effects have been thoroughly researched, and when this is the case, at a certain moment you can say that it's relatively safe to use this substance when you use it responsably. Of salvinorin, very little is known and the recreational doses in wich it's used are probably a lot higher than the doses in wich it is originally used. I am far more sceptical towards those type of substances. That is also an objection you could have against the 2c's. To my knowledge these are all very new substances. About the neurotoxicity of MDMA scientists tend to dissagree, and this should be a reason to be sceptical as well(always better to be on the safe side) and when you really want to use it, to use it in a very moderate manner. Taking 10 pills every weekend is very reckless behaviour from my perspective.
DMTripper
John Murdoch IV
Actually it was pure MDMA that made me start to dislike these chemicals. It does not have good aftereffects on me. Makes me feel depressed and out of energy the next days. No entheogen has done that to me to this day. I always feel very good and alert and generally happier the next day, days or even weeks after a strong trip. I don't have much experience with Salvia but I've always felt fine afterwards.
I will maybe try 2C's some day, like I said I'm not against these things, I just don't trust them very much. But I like to keep an open mind so if I have the chance some day I will go for it. But I've only once come a cross 2C's where I live. And I'm not buying that stuff off just anyone.
I will maybe try 2C's some day, like I said I'm not against these things, I just don't trust them very much. But I like to keep an open mind so if I have the chance some day I will go for it. But I've only once come a cross 2C's where I live. And I'm not buying that stuff off just anyone.
69ron
Rising Star
When it comes to plant made or man made, the general belief is that plant made compounds are safer. Its far easier to convince someone that a mushroom is better for you because its 100% organic. Go to the stores, anything now that says “organic” sells. It’s becoming the next big thing in grocery items.
The thing you must understand about plant made alkaloids is that the plant makes then generally without polluting the environment, but when man makes them he generally pollutes the environment. In that respect, organic plant made alkaloids are better than alkaloids made in a lab with all sorts of toxic chemicals.
On that note there is no argument. It’s is clearly better for the environment the grow mushrooms or yopo than to engineer LSD in a lab.
Make no mistake, some of the most toxic compounds are 100% natural. Take strychnine for example, or the amanitin found in destroying angels (Amanita virosa mushrooms). Amanitin is extremely poisonous to humans, but still it is environmentally friendly and LSD synthesis is not.
SWIM likes LSD. That was SWIM’s first hallucinogen. But even though SWIM likes it, he knows it is bad for the environment because of all the chemicals that go into producing it. LSD is a product of a science that pollutes the earth. Nothing good can be said about that fact. LSD is far less toxic than Yopo, but you can grow Yopo without offending the earth.
When it comes to man made alkaloids that are identical to the natural ones, the natural one is always better to use because it is from a plant that is beneficial to the environment.
The thing you must understand about plant made alkaloids is that the plant makes then generally without polluting the environment, but when man makes them he generally pollutes the environment. In that respect, organic plant made alkaloids are better than alkaloids made in a lab with all sorts of toxic chemicals.
On that note there is no argument. It’s is clearly better for the environment the grow mushrooms or yopo than to engineer LSD in a lab.
Make no mistake, some of the most toxic compounds are 100% natural. Take strychnine for example, or the amanitin found in destroying angels (Amanita virosa mushrooms). Amanitin is extremely poisonous to humans, but still it is environmentally friendly and LSD synthesis is not.
SWIM likes LSD. That was SWIM’s first hallucinogen. But even though SWIM likes it, he knows it is bad for the environment because of all the chemicals that go into producing it. LSD is a product of a science that pollutes the earth. Nothing good can be said about that fact. LSD is far less toxic than Yopo, but you can grow Yopo without offending the earth.
When it comes to man made alkaloids that are identical to the natural ones, the natural one is always better to use because it is from a plant that is beneficial to the environment.
DMTripper said:
If I have one piece of worthwhile advice for younger people out there, it's to stay the hell away from E. Foaf gets exactly the same aftereffects from E, as do a lot of others... peeps called it 'the suicidal tuesdays'. Shudder. And he got away lightly, he knows loads of MDMA trainwrecks, they all live Prozac-zombie lives now. And one girl got raped after too many dips in the powder, people don't realise once they're mashed that it's easy to overdo it and mess yourself up. A little E in its intended use as a therapy drug may well be beneficial, but getting mashed on it is bad news. Some may disagree, some say they don't even get comedowns. But the peeps I know and the brainscan studies are worrying.
69ron
Rising Star
San Pedro is very friendly. But still, SWIM says bufotenine is the friendliest (if smoked as pure freebase). But very few people have access to pure bufotenine. Yopo is not the same as bufotenine, it’s not so user friendly, it's very painful with lots of side effects. That’s only for hardcore users willing to suffer nasal pain, headache, nausea, etc.
My very first psychedelic experience was with mushrooms. This I found was a very good beginning entheogen. For your first time I would strongly suggest tripping with sombody else that is tripping on about 2 grams of some good shrooms each. The first time I used shrooms, I was alone, it wasn't the most friendly experience ever but I made it through (I would call that trip a bad trip). The next time I did it with two of my friends and it was awesome. There were geometrical shapes and things melting but also was an extremely fun and funny time with my friends.
This was funny you had to be there. lol Ronnie says "Brad how long does this last this is rediculess" I say "Lolol hold on, let me hit the off button" while reaching for his back it was soo funny at the time. (You kinda had to be there trippin with us to find that funny).
But yea the mushies with 1 or 2 of your buds is fun and I would recomend that over some of the other psychedelics such as some of the psychedelic snuffs which was my second journey into the hallucination land but ultimately was a journey for my face in the toilet lol.
This was funny you had to be there. lol Ronnie says "Brad how long does this last this is rediculess" I say "Lolol hold on, let me hit the off button" while reaching for his back it was soo funny at the time. (You kinda had to be there trippin with us to find that funny
).But yea the mushies with 1 or 2 of your buds is fun and I would recomend that over some of the other psychedelics such as some of the psychedelic snuffs which was my second journey into the hallucination land but ultimately was a journey for my face in the toilet lol.