what is the boundary dose between seeing inner mechanics and not seeing?

[goodone22]

i guess if i see how inner mechanics of conscious is working i will get a distance from normal human life and i will be more like hating humans because of knowing how simple(maybe) it would be.
so i guess if its possible i should find a dose where i don't see such stuff.and i am planning to use risperidone as a controller for the trip.magic mushroom.
i have read a page on psychonautwiki about this but i don't know more.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

It feels to me like you're going about this the wrong way and setting yourself up with a load of shaky preconceptions and misapprehensions. It's this kind of rigidity of thinking that makes it more difficult for you when psychedelics start to pick that stuff apart, piece by piece. Back to the drawing board, I say.

 

[goodone22]

It feels to me like you're going about this the wrong way and setting yourself up with a load of shaky preconceptions and misapprehensions. It's this kind of rigidity of thinking that makes it more difficult for you when psychedelics start to pick that stuff apart, piece by piece. Back to the drawing board, I say.

i have no rigid preconception.i was asking questions.
if you know the true concept i can learn from you.

 

[fink]

There is no dose or technique that gives any certain result. The only way is to dive in and take a swim. Or don't. If you are afraid of the lasting effects of seeing too much then already my instinct for you is don't dive in. You will see too much, at some point, that is almost certain.

 

[goodone22]

There is no dose or technique that gives any certain result. The only way is to dive in and take a swim. Or don't. If you are afraid of the lasting effects of seeing too much then already my instinct for you is don't dive in. You will see too much, at some point, that is almost certain.

can you explain more about those some point?what subjects of it is certain?
and i have read in the dmt wiki if you have forgiveness and a good heart the chances of seeing scary things will be lower.

 

[fink]

The best way for me to sum it up from my perspective is like this. If you are happy with your life, happy with your beliefs, happy and satisfied with your understanding of creation then do not take DMT.

This substance is going to show you things you dont want to know at some point. Your suggestion that it could make you dislike the rest of humanity is very valid. Once we have sampled something as magical and inexplicable then the behaviour of humanity seems even more pointless and self destructive and yes, it can be very frustrating to live in this world once your mind has been in spaces where the bullshit has no chance to survive.

As to what you are going to witness no one can predict it. Just be certain that you will eventually experience something that you would not willingly choose. Following that you will have to intergrate back to your life with almost no external help. You wont even be able to discuss what you see with most people. You will be alone with your own insanity. If you break the seal on this box dont ever expect things to be the same again.

Forgiveness is pretty important no matter the result while tripping, so can't hurt to practice it.

 

[goodone22]

The best way for me to sum it up from my perspective is like this. If you are happy with your life, happy with your beliefs, happy and satisfied with your understanding of creation then do not take DMT.
Forgiveness is pretty important no matter the result while tripping, so can't hurt to practice it.

i have experienced those things you mentioned,i remember saying this to myself that i shouldn't have seen these things people don't know and i couldn't tell them because they think i am insane.recently i told a little about them to my psychiatrist but he seemed to not understand and didn't care much. ,but after couple years finally i could make doubt about them in my mind and suddenly all those things cleared from my memory.(i still think it may be magical how it got cleared from my memory)
i'm not sure how much i know about those stuff they may be much more that i haven't seen yet,but i think if i could see them without drowning in the feelings of it,it could be very helpful.thats why i wanted to use antipsychotic medication.
but i doubt that i can resist in front of insanity and those strong feelings.
i think i should wait longer and see if there be any more proper situation in my life to use psychedelic.
i have a question from you.can you doubt about what you saw on the dmt?is it possible to doubt when you are experiencing dmt?or maybe it is that much real that can't be doubted in any way?
(i think there needs to be a thread for this question but members seem to disagree with me)

 

[fink]

We can convince ourselves something is true or not true with practice, no doubt.

In my little world, one of the things I cannot escape from the DMT realm is the frantic kinetic vibration of creation right in my face.

It's like something has a palm frond right infront of my eyes and is shaking it so rapidly that the frequency is all I can focus on. The energy that is contained right at the brink of violent explosion all around me in everything, everywhere, always. There is no rest, no calm, all is movement and madness. Not one atom is stationary, not even for an instant.

It's so powerful that it keeps me away from DMT for months at a time despite now having a lifetime supply of the most pure and perfect spice ready to go.

I can never forget the chaotic kinetics of this raw energy. It's with me no matter if I convince myself it is true or not.

 

[goodone22]

We can convince ourselves something is true or not true with practice, no doubt.


I can never forget the chaotic kinetics of this raw energy. It's with me no matter if I convince myself it is true or not.

is that like a permanent side effect you feel?or it's a powerful imagination you got after the trip?
if it is an imagination and you don't like it,you may try to rationalize in a way for your self to believe it can't be true.in my experience it works for me to back to normal.
i heard from someone i guess it was on the reddit,he said i see some places in the world where it is a teared part of the world in my vision real as the other parts opened to another world.like a intergalactic river shown to me and no matter i get close to it or not it will stay as it was.
i don't remember how much was passed after he got this side effect.i guess it was around 2 months.

 

[fink]

Side effect is not even close to the right term to describe DMT insights. That is what we are trying to get at here. You will eventually see things that cannot be rationalized in a way that allows your existence to continue as it was before.

 

[goodone22]

Side effect is not even close to the right term to describe DMT insights. That is what we are trying to get at here. You will eventually see things that cannot be rationalized in a way that allows your existence to continue as it was before.

rationalization is a method,but it all depends that if you can doubt it or not.
and how can you be so certain about that thing you are or was experiencing?
i think we shouldn't rely on our feelings and senses.they can change and make us into a wrong conclusion.i am not saying you are wrong.but i would like to know if there is a reason that you can't be able to doubt about it,in my experience the reason was how realistic and powerful my feeling were on the NDE and i couldn't forget it and some strange incidents happened to me,although i could rationalize them but i thought it isn't the right way cause i felt it so much,when we sense something powerful it is almost impossible to believe it isn't occuring.because our mind is designed to connect with senses.i think if we get distance from feelings it could be like sleeping nothing more special.
i always have a little doubt for everything including myself,because i don't like to get shocked after knowing something was wrong.it is a very painful feeling.

 

[fink]

If you watch the way grass moves in the wind it would feel strange to convince yourself it is all your imagination. Likewise some of my memories from DMT space seem as fundamental as grass flowing in the wind only on a different scale and context.

 

[artificer]

Goodone22, my first use of DMT wasn't too long ago and the change in my perspective on things before & after experiencing it is something I'm still processing months later. So far, I haven't found anything that it taught me to be "incorrect", but it wasn't revealing 2+2=5 either.

What I find is that the experience reveals my own naïveté with people and their different wirings; i.e. some people like myself prefer to be candid and bring truths to the table to deter games and manipulation, but another may be wired to conceal a truth in ways I now cannot be blind to. Does that mean I have new special insight into the truth? Not necessarily, but the new perspective puts me in a position where red flags go up in situations I may previously have been completely blind and manipulated.

From there I now have to decide if I care enough about specific scenario to get to the bottom of the truth or just let it be a red flag. I've had to learn to not let some red flags bother me and there's been some other struggles - but it is my conviction that the DMT experience has built for me a better understanding of life & people without ever feeling like "damn! it was wrong! it messed me up and led me astray!"

That's just one example, there's a lot more I've gotten from DMT, but all of it generally has this: imbibe what it teaches, feel pulse of the universe pumping desire for life and love, gain perspective from it, and simultaneously be burdened with a kind of responsibility I didn't have previously.

I hope my explanation helps - I'm guessing some drugs out there like Datura have side effects of making the user delusional, I only find DMT brings clarity, but I also don't personally classify it as a drug, it is so otherworldly.

 

[goodone22]

Goodone22, my first use of DMT wasn't too long ago and the change in my perspective on things before & after experiencing it is something I'm still processing months later.
sing some drugs out there like Datura have side effects of making the user delusional, I only find DMT brings clarity, but I also don't personally classify it as a drug, it is so otherworldly.

i have heard that entities tell people do something otherwise we punish you,do you mean like that?
did you know people with schizophrenia can have these kind of hallucinations that they get commands from god or demons?
did you ever thought about getting bad trips?did you have expreience with other drugs?
i asked it to understand if you are talking as a new user with no pre knowledge or you had a lot of experiences.that can be different because there is higher possibility for new users to conclude mistakenly.
although i think everything can be justified in a way that someone can accept it but there are things that make right or wrong for a person more obvious.and they are different for each person,therefore i guess we cannot agree with eachother.even if i do dmt i may not accept these things,but i guess i may accept to be insane after doing DMT.

 

[artificer]

I know someone that has developed schizophrenia, has nothing to do with psychedelic drugs, but she is long time meth user (I've never touched meth, seeing what it's done to her and other people!) and traumatic childhood plays a role I'm sure. It's gotten really bad, she hears voices, says they tell her to do things and that she cannot ignore them. I would not recommend psychedelics of any sort to her.

i have heard that entities tell people do something otherwise we punish you,do you mean like that?

No I've not experienced any entities telling me what to do or threatening, IME it's more like they're just trying to show me something in a playful way. That being said, parts can be scary, and I could picture a DMT trip going bad, it might reveal something you don't want to see, for example it could confront you with something in subconscious that's been suppressed because it's difficult to face.

I've used mushrooms dozens of times at varying amounts, and indeed it makes a difference having some idea what you're getting into with DMT. Bad trips happen, not much these days for me, but my second shroom trip a long time ago was most horrible due to personal things going on at the time; it took me a while to digest and grow from that one. Psychedelics can be good for sorting things out in life, but I'm not a doctor and I don't know you or what you're dealing with, ya know? It's not for everyone.