What is the dosage for "full spectrum" harmaline extract?

[CaesarOfMex]

No discussion of buying/selling. Please read the attitude.

I'm wondering what would be the dosage for a nice, solid pharma trip. I've heard that "full spectrum" means that it is not 100% harmaline/harmine alkaloids, and you therefore need to take more, but how much?

All the seller could tell me was that "It is mostly (95-98%) harmine and harmaline in about a 3:1 ratio."

I've had amazing experiences with up to 180mg dmt fumarate with about 200mg harmaline HCl extract, and would also really appreciate if someone tells me what the equivalent of that would be for dmt freebase turned into dmt citrate and the Harmaline extract I mentioned.

Thank you!

 

[Intezam]

Please kindly remember that we are only allowed to discuss sources of legal life plants or seeds, as per forum rules.

 

[Jees]

That is a sad advertising, as "HCl" form cannot be full spectrum, the process to make HCl-form is very effective in cutting a ton away from the original full spectrum constituents, in order to narrow down on just the harmalas of choice.

Having this in mind:

"Harmine/Harmaline HCl - Peganum Harmala Syrian Rue Extract Full Spectrum 1 gram"

comes across rather ... hmm.. how shall we call that?

 

[CaesarOfMex]

Hi Mod. Sorry about the mixing up of the rules. I thought since harmaline extract is 100% unregulated here in the US that there wouldn't be any problem about it... what an incosiderate bastard I am, not taking into account the rest of the world

And OMG Jees :shock:

That is a sad advertising, as "HCl" form cannot be full spectrum, the process to make HCl-form is very effective in cutting a ton away from the original full spectrum constituents, in order to narrow down on just the harmalas of choice.

Does that. . . does that mean what I think it means? I guess I'll just have to wait and find out then. . . if it turns out good it will be sad since I won't be able to share it with my fellow Americans :thumb_dow

But seriously though. . . is there REALLY no way that a real harmaline/harmine extract can be full spectrum?? Maybe an "exctract" like that wouldn't be necessarily an extract but just a concentrated form of all the alkaloids in the seeds??

Will send you a PM Jees hope you can check it out. . . no hard feelings if not though we all got our lives to look after :d ***EDIT: Scratch that. . . I'm a n00b who doesn't deserve to message anyone but moderators lmao

And one last question: Could someone point me in the right direction for dosage "convertions" from dmt fumarate to dmt citrate? Thanks and peace.!

 

[Intezam]

Not sure if that answers the citrate question, but Infundibulum posted some calculation charts here

For sure, there is a way to have a full spectrum harmala extract, but it wouldn't be the tao of rue alone. If one wants the Harmane, Harmalol and THH, the easiest/cheapest way is to drink rue tea with a dash of lemon (also an extract).

Depending on the quality of the water (zinc/magnesium/other reducing agents..etc) long boils could reduce at most some (smaller amount) of the harmaline to THH, at least that's the theory...

It's been said, that ascorbic acid (vitamin C) is also a (weak) reducing agent, so one could use ascorbic acid instead of lemon or vinegar...

 

[Jees]

Just think of "full spectrum" as "all ingredients present", sort of.

That means fullest spectrum would be grinding the seeds and flush it in, some people do that but it gives the most burden on the digestion system that gets to process it all.

Second in line is making a tea from the (grinded) seeds. Drink that tea and a lot of the plant material is saved out on the digestion system. Bad taste but you get a very wide spectrum ingested of everything that is water soluble.

Third in line is making the tea basic (like adding lime or calcium hydroxide) and a lot of the elements will become solid and settle at the bottom, discard the liquid and have the sediment as your extract. Often the sediment gets flushed with water to flush away the basic medium (especially necessary if one used lye to make basic).

Fourth in line is dissolving that sediment in an acid watery stage (like with vinegar) and adding kitchen salt (in the right ratio's) and some particular harmalas will now form solid neddle type precipitation. Keep those, discard the liquid, now you have the HCl form.

So you see the HCl form is furthest away from the "full spectrum".
Except from eating seeds material, all is an "extract" to some level, and going further away from "full spectrum" your extract gets narrower toward certain constituents of the original seeds. No one approach is best in general terms, it's just what are you looking for? Some people are after max plant material medicinal properties, while others are after lesser burden on the digestion. Some are even interested in dividing the HCl form in it's 2 main alkaloids Harmine and Harmaline and separate those. To each his own game.

I hope this answers your question

. . . is there REALLY no way that a real harmaline/harmine extract can be full spectrum??

Check out the harmala extraction teks in Wiki to see it happen in details.

8)

 

[CaesarOfMex]

Not sure if that answers the citrate question, but Infundibulum posted some calculation charts here

Wow, very handy tool indeed thx for the link!

Just think of "full spectrum" as "all ingredients present", sort of.

That means fullest spectrum would be grinding the seeds and flush it in, some people do that but it gives the most burden on the digestion system that gets to process it all.

Second in line is making a tea from the (grinded) seeds. Drink that tea and a lot of the plant material is saved out on the digestion system. Bad taste but you get a very wide spectrum ingested of everything that is water soluble.

Third in line is making the tea basic (like adding lime or calcium hydroxide) and a lot of the elements will become solid and settle at the bottom, discard the liquid and have the sediment as your extract. Often the sediment gets flushed with water to flush away the basic medium (especially necessary if one used lye to make basic).

Fourth in line is dissolving that sediment in an acid watery stage (like with vinegar) and adding kitchen salt (in the right ratio's) and some particular harmalas will now form solid neddle type precipitation. Keep those, discard the liquid, now you have the HCl form.

So you see the HCl form is furthest away from the "full spectrum".
Except from eating seeds material, all is an "extract" to some level, and going further away from "full spectrum" your extract gets narrower toward certain constituents of the original seeds. No one approach is best in general terms, it's just what are you looking for? Some people are after max plant material medicinal properties, while others are after lesser burden on the digestion. Some are even interested in dividing the HCl form in it's 2 main alkaloids Harmine and Harmaline and separate those. To each his own game.

I hope this answers your question

. . . is there REALLY no way that a real harmaline/harmine extract can be full spectrum??

Check out the harmala extraction teks in Wiki to see it happen in details.

Cool

Things are much clearer now thanks. So I'm guessing that it IS correct to say that an extract that is about 97% harmine/harmaline and 3% the rest of the alkaloids could be considered "full spectrum", right? I don't want to discredit someone who said that his extract was 97% Harmaline/Harmine HCl yet said it was full spectrum just yet, given that he has quite a good reputation!

**EDIT**: Just one more thing. . . kind of outside the discussion so please bear with me: Is DMT citrate just as effective as any other salt form of dmt? (i.e. acetate, HCl, Phosphate, fumarate, etc)? And is it really as easy as just soaking it in lemon juice for a few minutes? If so how many? Thanks guys.